Health care

[Terencegwyn]

My wife and I are both 58 years of age and are in the process of buying a property in Normandy. I read that it is compulsory to pay into the French Health system, I also read in The Sunday Times book Buying a Property in France, that included in the 'People NOT entitled to State health care' are the economically inactive - i.e. those 'retired' below retirement age. I am in that category I would assume, being a retired Police Officer who retired from the Service at 55 years of age. Unless I'm reading this wrongly it seems a contradiction, as I also understand that you cannot solely pay privately for health care (which I wouldn't want to do anyway). Does anyone know how I stand here, I would be grateful if someone could help me. If you know the average (if there is such a thing) cost of contributing to the healthcare system, and top up costs for a pair of reasonably healthy 58 year olds that would help too.

                                                 Many Thanks

                                                         Terencegwyn

[Ron Avery]

Terence

Have a read of the French Health system FAQ's above.  From what you say,  you and your wife would be entitled to an E 106, which gives you both the same cover as a French person gets for up to two years.

AFTER that you have to pay into the French system, based on a % of your earnings.  You can opt for a top up with an insurance company when you get to France called the mutuelle, as the E 106 only covers you for typically 70% of health costs.

[Will]

If you are not working, and not of state retirement pensionable age, you can reckon on around 8% of your income.

The top-up cost will vary as to the amount of cover required, but an average sort of basic policy for a couple of your age is in the range 1200€ to 1500€ per annum. You may find one cheaper, or for greater cover you can pay a lot more.

Unfortunately a lot of the books contain half-truths and misinformation - even from a source as reputable as the Sunday Times. This often results from changes made after the book was written. Your best bet is to ask, as you have done, on a forum like this, as you will find other people in a similar situation to yours. Even so there are considerable variations in procedures, costs etc and it is usually impossible to give standard answers applicable to all of France.

[Miki]

I think that if Terence had retired around 3 years ago or so and not been working in the UK since then, his entitlement to an E106 has possibly lapsed. That being the case, he will need to go to his local CPAM in France and register, paying therefore from day one his 8%, that's if he wishes to start his basic health cover, which sensibly should be ASAP.

Peter Owen will certainly know.

[Ron Avery]

[quote]I think that if Terence had retired around 3 years ago or so and not been working in the UK since then, his entitlement to an E106 has possibly lapsed. That being the case, he will need to go to his l...[/quote]

Good point Micki, if no NI contributions in the last three years that could be a problem,  it does seem a bit unfair that you can pay NI and lots of it for 35 years but if not in the last three years you are not entitled to a E106, surely a qualifying period of payment would be much fairer

[Terencegwyn]

Just to say thanks to everyone who replied to my question re Healthcare in France, very grateful. One question, who is the Peter Owen mentioned by Miki, excuse my ignorance of the names given, I'm brand newto the Forum.

                                                    Many Thanks,

                                                           Terence

                                                     

[Miki]

[quote]Just to say thanks to everyone who replied to my question re Healthcare in France, very grateful. One question, who is the Peter Owen mentioned by Miki, excuse my ignorance of the names given, I'm bra...[/quote]

Sorry Terence just spotted this :

Peter Owen can, I think, be contacted on this site

Peter Owen

www.expathealthdirect.co.uk

[Terencegwyn]

Just to say thanks to Miki for his information about contacting Peter Owen.

                                               Very grateful

                                                         Terence

[Hereford]

Don't forget that once your wife is 60 and qualifies for her OAP she can get an E121 which will then give cover for her and you without payment into the French service. You would then need to decide whether to buy a top-up insurance.

H.

[Terencegwyn]

My thanks to Hereford for that welcome piece of good news.

                                                             Regards

                                                                     Terence

[Truffleman]

Hi everyone,

I'm confused. Having read posts, other web pages and FAQ's concerned with this subject, I'm still confused with how E106's and E121's affect my wife and myself. To detail;

I'm 62.5 years and my wife is the same and in receipt of her State Age Related Pension, I have an occupational pension. We have a house which we/I am renovating with assistance of local artisans. This entails me being there a considerable amount of time over the next two years or so.

As I will be there for more than 6 months in a year I believe that I should get an E106 and register at the CPAM as my E111 is not technically valid and my annual multi-trip travel insurance limits me to 183 days per annum with no trip exceeding 35 days.

Am I correct to think;

1) That if my wife obtains an E121 and registers with the CPAM that we are both covered under the French Health Service, ie. for 70% of the cost.

2) That if I take get my E106 now and register with the CPAM I will be covered under the French Health Service, ie. for 70% of the cost.

3) When I reach 65 and start to receive my OAP, get my E121 we both will be covered for 70%

4) As we want to keep a house in UK what effect will the above have on our Health entitlement when we are back in the UK. Worst case scenario, 6 months in each country.

5) With an E106/E121 will I have to contribute 8% of my existing Occupational Pension to the French system.

6) Finally with E121's and in receipt of UK State pensions will we have to contribute 8% to the French system.

Failing definitive answers can anyone recommed a source/book that will give the answers before I go to Peter Owen at expathealth.

Thanking you all in advance, a confused Truffleman.

[Ron Avery]

Answers to questions, to the best of my knowledge.

1)YES

2 YES, but not necesary as you are covered by your wife's card.

3 YES, but you will be covered by your wife's E121 generated card as she is already receiving a pension, you can apply for your own but it is not necesary.

4 If you register for health care in France you will lose entitlement to health cover in the UK other than accident or emergency. You will be in France on your own admittance for more than 183 days, you cannot play ducks and drakes with the systems, its one or the other.

5 You will pay nothing for basic health care nominally 70% of costs as you are treated as a family unit and your wife is a pensioner.

6 See above

[peebee]

[quote]Don't forget that once your wife is 60 and qualifies for her OAP she can get an E121 which will then give cover for her and you without payment into the French service. You would then need to decide w...[/quote]

I am 60 and my husband is only 50.  I receive my state pension here in the U.K also a local government pension.  We will shortly be moving to our cottage in France as Tony has just been made redundant after 27 years. 

Reading this post, I will apply for a E121.  Does Tony then qualify because of my age? When and if he gets work, what happens then?  How soon before we come to France do I need to apply for the E121?  We are selling our home in the U.K at the moment so it may be a good few months before we are in the position to move over permanently.

Many thanks

Pat

[Teamedup]

When he starts work then he will be given his own SS number and have his own cover.

[peebee]

Thanks for this advice. Presumably then Tony will come off cover available through me and pay his own contributions at 8% and become part of the French system in his own right?  Do you pay on every euro earned or do people on very low wages pay a reduced amount as in U.K?  Sorry for my ignorance on this subject.

 

[Teamedup]

What are you talking about peebee, this social tax or SS payments of various sorts that everyone makes. The SS payments hit the poorest hardest as there is an upper ceiling, or is it sealing on the SS payments. So if you earn less you pay on all of it, where as if you earn above the plafond then you only pay up to max.

The SS payments are not just a simple payment like NI contributions, the ASSEDIC and Pensions and SS are all different organisations in France all taking their parts from working folks............ and ofcourse the social tax is taken separately too.

 

[peebee]

Thank you for taking the trouble to reply.

[Photographer]

Hi everyone,

I have just moved to France with my Wife and am needing information on joining the french health system.  How do I join and where do I go.  I am 35 and my wife is 37.  We intend to start up our own businesses when I have finished the house( hopefully this year), my wife makes stained glass windows and glass jewllery, and I am a portrait/landscape photographer.

Any info would be greatly appriciated 

[Teamedup]

You should have contacted Newcastle before you left the UK to get this sorted out. If you qualify they will issue with the appropriate E form which you should hand in to the CPAM. If you don't qualify they will give you a letter saying that you don't qualify and you hand that into the CPAM.

Once you get both businesses sorted out, as it looks like you may need to sort out two separate businesses, then you will be paying into the system in France. I would suggest that you see the Chambres des Metiers?/Commerce?/Artisans? about your business ideas and get a good accountant.

[Photographer]

Thanks for the reply Teamedup,

Just a couple of things......you say we should have contacted Newcastle.......who exactly.  We have still business interests in the UK and are commuting at the mo.  When this ends if at all what is CPAM.  I appriciate some people may have knowledge of these specific details but for us who have just moved please humour us and be a little more exact.  We do appriciate all information given and it is all noted and absorbed.  Thanks again.

H

[Teamedup]

Sorry as you are going to be running a business or businesses you probably won't be using the CPAM. It is a little more complicated here as businesses, artisans and companies and even say teachers have other Caisse de Maladies other than the general one which most people use, which is the CPAM.

 

Newcastle, well if you google 'national insurance contributions newcastle' you'll find them. In fact if you'd googled CPAM you would have found them too, come to think.  Although as I said you will have to sort out with the Chambres de whatevermetier to find out which one you should be joining.

 

You need to contact the Chambre de whatevermetier and get an accountant. Newcastle is the easy bit to sort out really.

 

[Mr Coeur de Lion]

Teamedup,

Wouldn't it be in their best interests to go down the path of the general CPAM anyway?  I know when I say things like 'the house will be finished by the end of the year hopefully', that this could drag on a bit longer.  Perhaps it might be a year or so until their businesses are up and running.  What do you suggest?

Lynda

[Photographer]

Hi Teamedup,

Thanks for getting back to us over the CPAM and NI info.  It is clearer now and will take on board all advice.  Sounds obvious now about Google.  Thanks again.