Health and low humidity caused by log burners.

[JohnRoss]

I have noticed that in Winter and when the log burner is running the relative humidity in the house falls to between 35 and 38% and that this is independent of the outside conditions to some extent. Whilst you would expect humidity to fall under current dry cold conditions the same figures are obtained when the outside condition are significantly wetter and warmer. Therefore the drying effect of the log burner must be the most significant factor in determining internal humidity levels.

 

I understand that figures below 40% and above 60% are not conducive to good health and for sure my rhinitis, and minor respiratory problems are worse when humidity is low. I have tried to raise the level by having a large metal container full of water placed on top of the log burner but this, despite evaporating nearly 1.5 litres/day, seems not to be very effective. So what methods have you found successful in restoring humidity to a reasonable level? 

 

Sore throats and sniffles seem to be common problems associated with dry air conditions in a house. Other members of the household including our cat seem to have similar related problems. Spraying/misting with cold water seems to be an unhealthy option. No doubt some of the water vapour produced is being sucked through the stove and up the chimney. I notice that paraffin stoves which are used when the log burner is not running do not give the same results and indeed they tend to raise humidity levels as you might expect. Further water vapour is seen to be condensing on cold windows upstairs. So how have you corrected this problem of too low a humidity in your house folks?.................................JR

 

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1474709/

[Dog]

What sort of humidity meter are you using? Horse hair used to be used.

You need very small water droplets to humidify a room.

Perhaps it would be better for your health to get outside for some fresh air.

[JohnRoss]

Oregon Scientific Weather Station model number BAA928U 433MHz cable free remote external temperature sensor. Humidity sensor on main internal unit only.......................JR

PS One emerges from one's pit several times in the day to fetch logs, go shopping, inspect garden etc etc!

[Théière]

JohnRoss, I have just checked and our lounge with radiator not log burner is around 36% rh, just been cooking in the kitchen, boiling spuds and that puts it around 46% rh.

In hotels I have stayed in during the ski season they hung little containers of water on the rads to up the humidity.

[JohnRoss]

Yup well I guess it would be low anyway in this weather. The little water pottery thingys we used to hang on our rads in the UK when we had that new fangled system called central heating but no such luxury here. I tried running 250mls through a hand steamer but it only increased the RH by 2% so still well below the 40% minimum desirable level quoted in the article........JR

 

PS Our downstairs area is very large, not separate rooms, and the staircase leads off the main room.

[Judith]

We rather hoped that log burners would dry out the house a bit.  I can't say that I've found any problem with dryness, the whole place still feels dampish when they are not in use (except in the summer, of course).  There are enough draughts in our house to ensure a good draught to keep two logburners going (one is a cuisiniere, so is on all the time at this time of year, as long as it stays lit overnight), and I cannot say I get a problem with an allergic reaction.  Though I used to get lots of rhinitis etc in London, so I do know what it feels like.  The smoke can affect me, and the sawdust in the garage, but that is something quite different. 

Our logburners are our main source of heating, supplemented by electric heating of various sorts (a mixture of fixed and moveable convectors or fans) but even they I do not find drying.  I do find some irritations when using the fans in rooms with carpets etc, but that is a small price to pay for being warm!).

Perhaps your house is more draught-proof than ours??

PS - I hadn't noticed that the current conditions (ie the snow!) could be described as "dry"!!

[LisaJ]

I have read this thread with interest as we are suffering the same symptoms as the OP. Our weather station tells us that humidity in the house is only 32% (it is very well insulated and has central heating as well as the woodburner.) We have tried a bowl of water on the stove today, but are thinking that we might have to buy a small humidifier. We are keeping the house very well sealed at the moment as the temperature outside is very cold. 

regards

L

[JohnRoss]

Today as an experiment with the humidity reading of 35% I tried the following experiment. I filled a large saucepan with water and put it on the gas ring and allowed it to boil. Having got it boiling I turned the gas down and let it simmer away for an hour. The humidity rose slowly and had reached 44% when I turned the ring off. The RH has now started to drop and has reached 40% within 40 minutes of turning the ring off. The log burner has been going all day.

 

Our kitchen leads off the main room and could be regarded as part of it with no door between. We have always had a large metal bowl of water on top of the log burner and without it I suspect the RH would be even lower. One of the problems of having a staircase leading off the main living area is that stuff just shoots upstairs, i.e. warm air and anything in it. The one advantage is that we don't need extra bedroom heating. I noticed that my nose cleared, often partially blocked, and breathing was easier with the higher humidity level. Spray mist devices using cold water have been criticized by medics suggesting they may in fact make matters worse so steam or evaporated water would seem to be the best way of increasing humidity. I gather that 50% RH is recommended for hospitals as airborne bacteria are less likely to survive at that level of humidity. Higher levels of humidity, 70% plus, I understand may also cause fungal spores to proliferate and that can also give rise to health issues.

 

We have purchased from http://www.monguidesante.com/login.php Puressentiel Spray aux 41 huiles essentielles which has had a similar effect in clearing stuffy noses and is supposed to be Anti-bactérien and Anti-acariens as well. If you don't suffer from allergic rhinitis you probably wonder what those of us that do are banging on about but it really is not pleasant! I also think we need a humidifier but one that uses steam and not cold water mist......................JR 

 

PS By the time I had finished typing this the RH had dropped another 1%. A pity I cannot get easily to London as the injections I used to have at The Royal London Homoeopathic Hospital EPD clinic were really most effective. http://www.uclh.nhs.uk/GPs+healthcare+professionals/Clinical+services/Homeopathy+(Royal+London+Homoeopathic+Hospital)/Homeopathy+-+Allergy+Environmental+and+Nutritional+Medicine/

[Théière]

JohnRoss, we have a similar room with the staircase and I very much wish the heat would make it up stairs but it just feels that it stops at the downstairs ceiling height as you climb the stairs. Low humidity is not just caused by log burners, most types of heating rads etc cause it. What happens if you have long conversations as that should increase the humidity as we exhale a fair bit of water.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breathing

[JohnRoss]

Interesting and it would seem that, from the given figures, we breath out 0.3 litres of water vapour each minute or more if we are creaky. However it does not say what percentage of that had been previously breathed in! So if we invited the local football team in for drinks and showed them grubby films we would not have a humidity problem? Mmm...............JR 

[andyh4]

Invest in a humidifier - when we moved to Germany a lot of our wood furniture developed cracks as the wood dried out and shrank.  In depths of winter and with under floor heating RH at under 15%.

 

Alternatively take a J Cloth or similar and suspend it above you bowl of water on the stove so that one end is permenantly in the water.  It will act as a wick and significantly increase the rate of eveaporation.

[Pommier]

Increase humidity and save money at the same time! Instead of using the tumble drier, dry the washing on an airer in the living room.

[JohnRoss]

Ok have found a large unused shallow metal roasting dish which holds about 3.5 litres of water and placed that on top of the wood burner. This seems to hold the RH up above 40%, current reading 45%, and is getting through all of the 3.5 litres in one day. This is serving the whole ground floor of the open plan property. Current internal ground floor air temperature 21 degrees Celsius. As you might expect the larger surface area, 1304 square cms,  is more effective for evaporation purposes so problem solved, maybe! With the outside temperatures higher today the external air RH must be higher than it has been so the next cold dry snap will be a good test..............................JR

[Hereford]

Thank you JohnRoss for starting this thread.  I suffer from severe allergic rhinitis but had wondered why it was so bad here in the winter!  Bought a humidity meter and can see that nowhere in the house is above 37, except the kitchen when we are actually cooking. That is without the wood burner on - we have electric radiators and double glazing and only use the woodburner for fun when it is really cold and miserable.

Clearly we need to tackle this - it not good for the furniture either !  My daughter tells me they tried a "steam" humidifier but it was like being in a sauna and that the cold water ones are much better.  She is finding me a link to one.

Thanks again, if I can sort this out life will be much more comfortable.  At present I have to take antihistamine all year and that has caused "dry eye syndrome".

Mrs H

[JohnRoss]

Ok well glad it has helped. Problem is that in Winter with less ventilation in the house other things like animal dander, dust, house mites etc can build up. I use an ionizer in the bedroom with good effect, Marks and Sparks version. The best thing I ever did was to get rid of a duvet stuffed with eiderdown, I was allergic to the feathers or the mites that one inevitably gets in bedding, there are sprays for this I believe.

 

I have read that the cold water misting devices are good but some medics are worried about the possibility of bacteria being spread this way and specify using sterile water and not from the tap which could be pricey if used every day. The large roasting tray I described above seems to have done the trick at the moment and I have currently between 41 and 45% humidity in the house. It may take a few days to build up. It does however cause condensation on upstairs windows a bit, only to be expected when cold outside! As I have said the EPD clinic at the Royal London Homoeopathic Hospital limited my allergies when I was in the UK but too far to travel from here! I can send you more info about this if you wish...............................JR

[Hereford]

Thanks, may try an ioniser.  I know I am allergic to feathers, etc so have always had "non-allergenic" bedding.  Too far for me to go to London too, but surely the French have homeopathic hospitals?

The RH in the sitting room this morning is 35. We only use our woodburner occasionally so not that.  More fresh air would help probably.  My severe pollen allergies (early, middle and late and falling leaves) mean that apart from deep winter I try to keep doors and windows closed.

C'est ;la vie.  Should live in  a town.

Mrs H

[JohnRoss]

Just a thought, have you tried local honey? Supposed to be good for some allergies, has to be local as has local airborne agents built in and somehow immunizes the immune system......................JR

 

PS Don't think the French have EPD See http://www.ei-resource.org/treatment-options/treatment-information/enzyme-potentiated-desensitization-(epd)/  might be worth doing a search for it if you can find the French words for it!

[Hereford]

Regrettably our local honey producer has ceased trading....

[JohnRoss]

We buy ours from the farmers market in the nearest town so a better description might be regional rather than local honey. The plant life cannot be that different a few ks away surely. I think it is no surprise that some medics assoctiate allergic rhinitis with allergy to certain foods so an elimination diet or stone age diet might prove instructive.

 This item makes interesting reading: http://www.pioneerthinking.com/to_honey2009.html  There is the suggestion that when trying the honey produced in the area to start slowly as there might be a small risk of an overt reaction. It might be worth asking your GP about EPD. If you find out anything I would be happy to hear about it as one does get fed up with the nose dripping like a tap and dodgy breathing from time to time. The cortisone inhalers help me when things are bad, more in Winter than Summer,but you really don't want to have to use it often! Anyway bon courage, I think the ioniser is worth a try..........JR

[Hereford]

Thanks.  I will try the ioniser as I agree a permanently runny nose is not fun! 

We hope you have a much better 2010 than 2009 seems to have been (from reading other threads).

Bon courage

Mrs H

[JohnRoss]

Many thanks. Many ionisers state that they should be placed on a washable surface. The reason being, from experience, you get a build up of muck muck on anything close to the ioniser as it knocks particles out of the air. More of a problem if the item is metal. Not noticed it so much on wood items but in our bedroom in the UK the wall panels were made of foil backed plasterboard and the ioniser was on a dressing table next to one of the walls and the wall close to it got covered with a thin layer of muck which proved difficult to wash off. I guess it was dry and the metal foil acquired a charge off the ioniser thus attracting dust particles. Some have only one needle others, like ours, are multi-needle. Prices seem to range from £25 upwards. Some are combined with air filters or other devices which dispense sweet smelling stuff into the air. If it were me I would go for a simple multi-needle ioniser without the fancy stuff. If you get one do report how you get on as others might benefit. Good luck...........JR