Life after S1............

[Oboulez]

Both our Form S1's expire in the new year. We have lived in France for 3 years. We have received conflicting advice from either our own internet research, or from HMRC in the UK as to what happens next. We know about the 5 year residency rule for otherwise entering into the french system. We are not OAP's & we live off my UK service pension. Can anybody give us some pointers? Thanks.

[minnie]

I imagine that you will need to take out full private health insurance to take you up to either the 5 year rule or OAP status of one of you, which ever is the sooner. As long as neither of you have pre-existing conditions then that would seem the way forward.

[NormanH]

You are not eligible for the CMU and cover under the normal French system is dependent on paying into it.

You could try to find work, (I think 60 hours a month is enough);  run a small business under the Autoentrepreneur scheme; or pay a full private health insurance.

[Pommier]

I've read elsewhere someone saying that he was accepted for cover by CPAM when his S1 expired because there had been a European court judgement saying that the French were wrong to refuse cover for people with less than 5 years residency. He quoted this: CIRCULAIRE N°DSS/DACI/2011/225 du 9 juin 2011. It might be worth trying for cover, otherwise it's private health care or working.

[Oboulez]

Thanks Pommier. We had heard that France was possibly in breach of an EU ruling if they refused cover - that said, we all know that France will do whatever it wants, irrespective of what anybody orders - otherwise I would be able to register my 120bhp motor bike here...... That said - where would I rather be???????

[EuroTrash]

All you can do is apply and see what happens. If they let you in you'll almost certainly pay less in CPAM contributions plus topup than you would pay for full private health insurance, though if I've understood correctly you would also become liable for CSG on your pension and any other unearned income, which you aren't liable for if you have an S1 or private health insurance. So it's swings and roundabouts again.

[Sprogster]

On this and the other main French forum I participate in, I have only come across one poster who said they had managed to get into the French health system before the 5 years, as you are quite right in that the French authorities seem to be ignoring the EU ruling. I have heard that the higher your income the better chance you have and the lower your income the more resistance you will meet. My advice unless you are going to work in France would be to investigate private health insurance as soon as possible, as you don't want to take the risk of being without cover, whilst you attempt to join the French health system, as the financial consequences could be disastrous if you fell ill. Also I believe that when you have been resident for 5 years and do qualify for French health cover the authorities will require evidence that you were covered previously by private insurance as a qualifying condition. Contrary to popular belief the EU free movement of labour provisions do not apply to inactifs, who have to demonstrate sufficient financial means. 

[EuroTrash]

"Contrary to popular belief the EU free movement of labour provisions do not apply to inactifs, who have to demonstrate sufficient financial means"

Absolutely. The phrase often used in documents is that all EU citizens have the right to "live AND WORK" in other EU states. People are sometimes very keen to claim that they have the freedom "to live" wherever they like in the EU but they choose to ignore the "and work" bit.

[tinabee]

Not sure if I am allowed to post this link, but the section on this website explains the process for applying for CMU-B and what to do next if you are refused:

http://www.french-property.com/guides/france/public-services/health/getting-health-cover/early-retirees/

and an article on successful applications or appeals

http://www.french-property.com/news/french_health/commission_update/

Apologies if I shouldn't post links to other websites like this, but it does seem to help the original poster directly

[Oboulez]

"but they choose to ignore the "and work" bit"............ I am not quite sure how to take this observation. I am not some sort of economic migrant as can be found in the UK. We live off my service pension, which actually is sufficient to live the fairly simple life we want here after spending a lifetime of **** doing unpleasant things in unpleasant places. Even if I wanted to work, where I live, I don't know what I could actually do - given that beyond a solar panel factory & driving tractors - there really is not much else. Unless if you count what many other non OAP British expat seems to do - buy an old Transit flatbed & a digger, set yourself up as some 'general builder' or 'landscaper', and then go around ripping off or overcharging other expats who don't have the linguistic confidence to use french tradesmen.

[NormanH]

[quote user="EuroTrash"]"Contrary to popular belief the EU free movement of labour provisions do not apply to inactifs, who have to demonstrate sufficient financial means"

Absolutely. The phrase often used in documents is that all EU citizens have the right to "live AND WORK" in other EU states. People are sometimes very keen to claim that they have the freedom "to live" wherever they like in the EU but they choose to ignore the "and work" bit.[/quote]

And  are very happy not to be asked to pay the social contributions that French nationals do, but to rely on the UK to pick up the tab...

[NormanH]

I see that those links perpetuate the old misunderstanding

"Once you have been legally resident in France for 5 years, then there is

an automatic right of entry into the health system, the CMU."

The CMU is not the health system. It is one path into it among many, and was originally intended to provide cover for those who had none because they hadn't been able to pay the contributions needed.

[EuroTrash]

Oops sorry, Louise&Gary, I wasn't having a "digger" at you at all. It was clear from your first post that you were aware of the situation and accepted it. I was just following the logical train of thought from the post previous to mine, which put me in mind of other expats who simply assume that 'somebody' will pay for their healthcare, and when it comes to the crunch and they discover that nobody wants to, they get indignant and demand these imaginary rights and think it's outrageous that anybody should expect them to put anything into the pot themselves.

No please don't buy a white van and a digger, we don't need any more of those.

[Oboulez]

Cheers EuroTrash. A person after my own heart it appears. By chance - I am waiting for a response from HMRC to a question I posed them a little while ago. I am fed up paying tax on my pension to the UK exchequor. I have no financial - or indeed any other interest in the UK. I am looking to see whether I can pay my tax here. My son - who is French has just started maternelle, and France is where our life is. I think it is morally wrong that I am paying tax in a country where I have no interest, benefit, or even representation - yet - I am benefitting every day from the french taxpayer. Mabey I am a bit late to develop morals, but you have no need to worry, I won't be buying a Tranny & a digger!

[YCCMB]

I think, given that you speak of a service pension, that HMRC may well be minded to indicate that, whilst working, you were benefitting every day from the UK taxpayer, who was paying your salary and is still paying your service pension. Not a dig, just an observation.

[idun]

Government pensions are always taxed in the country that pays them, not where you chose to live. That is just how it is.

[idun]

Louise and Gary, I keep thinking about some of your comments, they just keep popping into my mind.

Firstly, if you are not french, then your son is not french. And never has to be french if he doesn't want. It is not your decision, it is his.

Secondly, you have representation in the UK, you can vote in general elections using your old address and can do for, probably 15 years. It used to be longer and is one of NH's gripes that it is not a simple right that continues, and I agree with him.

Your son is only starting maternelle and if you were the ones asking about assurance, you seem to be rather unaware of basics. Still Ecole Maternelle, is the best bit of french education, the rest, well, you don't have to look far to see my comments about that, and also see how many have left France, an informed choice, knowing and understanding the system and not wanting their children in it........ or because of the disaster it can be for some......... fortunately not all, but when disaster strikes, it can be horrific.

Also such things as 'where would I rather be??????. If there is so little employment where you live, I would imagine that many of the young are leaving trying to find work in other parts of France or elsewhere in Europe or beyond. You may be leading your 'ideal life', but from what you have said, I doubt that your working french neighbours are living any sort idealistic life. 

And I will add, a good friend left living en plein campagne when her children started maternelle and moved to a town. She found the 'expectations' for paysans kids to be 'low' and said it was like night and day moving to a town, where even in maternelle her kids started to be stretched. Is it just where she lived en campagne? I don't know, but something to bear in mind.

And remember that the UK is not all bad, like France is not all good.