A tangental thought on Receiving "Sky" that might interest techies and legal minds.

[JohnM]

"Sky as we know it is only destined to be received in the UK.  Fact and absolute fact."

Err... no. Not fact. I think you'll find that it is also quite permisable to sign up to Sky in the Republic of Ireland.

But I really wish I hadn't mention Sky as a company. I started this thread by musing about whether it could be illegal to "receive" as the radio wave would naturally be absorbed by everything they hit, not matter which country. The reason for my musing is that I would rather like to get a cheap box from Brico and watch what I can. SO....what I really really really really want to know, is..... Is it actually illegal to sit in France and tune into British Broadcasts and if so, which laws are being broken. I do not care which laws the Broadcasters may break if they do not try to stop me. I am interested in which laws I may be breaking.

 

[Quillan]

"The reason for my musing is that I would rather like to get a cheap box from Brico and watch what I can. SO....what I really really really really want to know, is..... Is it actually illegal to sit in France and tune into British Broadcasts and if so, which laws are being broken. I do not care which laws the Broadcasters may break if they do not try to stop me. I am interested in which laws I may be breaking."

It's probably illegal but with no Sky card (or simular) nobody will ever know and I doubt anyone in France gives a toss. Hope you will also enjoy the many hundeds of German, Spanish and Belgian channels you will get as well.

[Quillan]

Well I have had an answer back from the BBC which does not make sense so here is my question and reply, I had to me a bit crafty as you can imagine.

 

Question – “I visited a friend who has BBC TV here in Southern France. He bought a box and dish from a local DIY shop and set it up himself. My question is this, is doing this perfectly legal and if not why and what law(s) does it break.”

 

Reply – “Thank you for your e-mail.

 

BBC digital services are intended solely for the UK audience.  European law provides that a broadcaster must consent to the retransmission of its channels in other EU states.  The BBC has not licensed any operator to retransmit its UK channels in France and reserves the right to take any action it considers appropriate against those operators that do.”

 

New Question - “Thank you for your email which I fully understand.

 

However, he is (I believe) receiving the transmission from the same satellite that is used by people in the UK so it is not a retransmission so where does he stand in this instance. I ask because if this is legal I would like to have one as well but I don't want to break the law.”

 

I have only just sent the above new question so I will post the answer when I get it. I have not mentioned Sky as this is a different ball game.

[David]

I think that Mazan has already answered this question definitively in another thread which I cannot trace at the moment.

I think he referred to "freeview", or non subscription channels, (could be free to air or some such thing - I do not know the exact term, so do not get exicted and castigate me please, I merely say sky non-subscription cards that receive free to view channels such as BBC, ITV, CH4 and CH5).

I think he said that it was not illegal to receive sky broadcasts in France, even with a purchased free to view card, but that it was illegal for sky to knowingly sell cards for reception in France, as they only had the licence for UK.

He likened it to buying a book in the USA, which was only allowed to be published and sold in the USA, but then reading it in another country.

This seems to me to mean that you can buy a non-subscription card in the UK, and then legally use it outside the UK.

I am not a lawyer, but this seems sensible to me.

Any comments?

[Quillan]

You know I had completely forgotten about this till I actually got a reply from the BBC today which is as follows.:

"Dear Mr Kenway,

Thanks for coming back to us.

Technically it is possible to receive BBC broadcasts in France and you would not be breaking any laws in buying equipment to enable you to do so. However as was mentioned in the previous email, our broadcasts are solely intended for a UK audience and we are restricted from encouraging, promoting or advising on matters relating to their reception outside our boarders.

I can not offer you anymore advice on this subject but would once again like to thank you for your interest in our services.

Yours sincerely

Andrew Estabrook

Reception Advice"

Which tells us what? .........Nothing.

[JohnM]

But... (even though we suspected it) it is really nice to see the words "you would not be breaking any laws" from somebody who knows.

Thanks for doing the investigation.

 

[Quillan]

Do keep in mind it is from the BBC only, I have not contacted Sky (although I think we know what their reply will be) or any of the independant broadcasting companies although the latter may say the same. In fact I might try ITV just to see if they sing of the same song sheet but I don't have time at present and will up date when I do.

[Teamedup]

 

As far as I have understood SKY doesn't hold the copyrights, they just have permission to tranmit these copyrighted emissions to people in the UK and Ireland holding contracts with them.

 

Have I got this right?

 

 

[JohnM]

As I understand things.

Copyright is held by the production company who commission the "work" (unless the contract is negotiated such that the production company that make the work retain copyright).

Publishers (TV Companies, DVD Manufacturers etc) negotiate a license with the copyright holder (or agent thereof)  to produce and distribute said copyrighted work. The license states where the licensee may distribute that work and for how long / number of occasions (i.e for two years up to a maximum number of transmissions/copies). Under these conditions, the Distributors (TV companies) have to take steps to ensure that the copyrighted material is not directly available outside of their license area.

Re breach of copyright by people recording Eastenders to watch when they get back from the pub. I'm not sure if UK law actually says "you may record a TV programme for personal use only" or whether it's just accepted and allowed by the copyright holders.

So... it is distributing / copying copyrighted works which are subject to copyright law and NOT viewing / reading / listening. (Just don't distribute (lend) that tape of Eastenders to your neighbour because that would be an offence (under English Law) and if the copyright holder wanted to find some sort of law to get us with that could be it).

The fact that it is not an offence (under English law) to recieve, is reassuring. Still wish I knew whether there is a French law. (There's no pleasing some folk!)

 

[Teamedup]

Well SKY breached these licenses laws already? and crowed about it.

I've mentioned it before on here, but for the football world cup in France, SKY announced to the world that they had set up SKY TV for the english players in La Baule.

 

Their intention was obviously that the players watched SKY TV in France.

 

Would they really have renegociated every single contract they had?

[JohnM]

I didn't know that! Nope I don't suppopse that they re-negotiated all their licenses either.

 

[Nick Trollope]

But I really wish I hadn't mention Sky as a company. I started this thread by musing about whether it could be illegal to "receive" as the radio wave would naturally be absorbed by everything they hit, not matter which country. The reason for my musing is that I would rather like to get a cheap box from Brico and watch what I can. SO....what I really really really really want to know, is..... Is it actually illegal to sit in France and tune into British Broadcasts and if so, which laws are being broken. I do not care which laws the Broadcasters may break if they do not try to stop me. I am interested in which laws I may be breaking.

I don't wish to keep on about this (& this thread has got too long for me to follow it), but by receiving a broadcast of which you are not the intended recipient, you are commiting an offence (in the UK) under the 1949 WT Act. Regardless of where you are, you are summonsable (is that a word?) in the UK. You will not be commiting an offence in France, as the broadcast did not originate from here. However, if you commited a more serious offence - oh, for example lets pick something such as Murder - you would be prosecuted in the UK, regardless of where you lived. Even if the RA (or whatever they call themselves nowadays) did not come after you, you could still be liable for arrest as soon as you set foot in British soil.

The Inland Revenue now have the means to prosecute/surcharge/sue you on foreign (EU) soil, how long before all the other UK Agencies get this power?

Don't get me started on the automatic identification of individuals passing through ports .....

Let's all go and hide...

IASNAL

[Teamedup]

So NT why would such a big company as SKY give the England football team, sky tv, if it is illegal. They surely have lots of legal minds guarding their interests.

[Nick Trollope]

Are we talking about the '98 World cup? If so, this pre-dates $ky digital and the change in the copyright regs. Besides which, $ky were not doing anything illegal, as presumeably they licenced themselves to show the programmes. If they were the producers of the program, then they probably held the copyright. That apart, I can't see any production Company refusing the world's largest broadcaster & producer to show whatever they want, to whoever they want, without making it a public broadcast. If you buy a DVD, you buy the right to show it in your home an unlimited amount of times, subject to certain conditions (such as not charging entry etc etc.) If Sky buys the rights to broadcast a program (which was probably made by Fox anyway) then they do it subject to certain conditions - we can't/don't know what these conditions are.

Actual broadcasting (regardless of what it is) is territorial - there is an international body that regulates it - and broadly speaking you are not allowed to broadcast outside the area for which you are licenced. Sky, whose licence covers UK & Eire (or rather Astra) take precautions to prevent you from watching Sky in France, but such precautions are almost unachievable, the fact that you can watch it, makes it an offence for you to watch it, not for the broadcaster.

Or something lilke that.