Three firewalls running on French neighbours computer - help.

[David]

I have been helping and encouraging my French neighbours who have three children to connect to the internet.  Eventually they did and after some connection problems which involved the attendance of an Orange technician, they have access to the internet.  However, I feel responsible for ensuring they are connected properly and safely as they know absolutely nothing about computers or the internet.

After some initial problems they told me all was well, so I assumed the Orange technician had sorted the Windows XP firewall, removed the Norton antivirus and firewall which came with the computer, sorted the parental control, and installed Orange antivirus.  I did not particularly like this set up but I thought that a French technician would set them up properly, and explain how all the French systems worked.  Being all French they could understand and go forward to the great wide world of the internet.

Then later they said they had received an antivirus disk from Orange, so I asked them what that was, and if they had disconnected Norton.  They did not seem to know, so I went up tonight.

It seems that the Orange technician had simply mechanically connected them to the phone line.  He had not touched the software.

From my checking of their computer it seems to me (their computer is French Windows XP, about one year old, and my French is poor) that they have Windows XP firewall running; the kids have activated Norton antivirus, parental control and firewall and that is running; and that the kids have loaded the Orange antivirus and firewall from the disk and that is running.  All programs are demanding to be allowed to register and update, perhaps also they are demanding payment.  The computer still seems to be running.

I have tried to explain that this might cause very great problems, and I have asked them to disconnect the computer for the time being.  I have refused to try to help deactivate or remove any programs in case I make matters worse.  I am not a computer expert.

I may be wrong, but I think they are in great difficulty.  I have read them the warning on the Orange disk to remove all other firewalls and antivirus programs before loading the Orange program (they had not read the instructions), and the parents seem to accept there is a problem, but they do not understand and think I am over-reacting.  The computer is working.  The kids say the computer is working so what is the fuss, and the parents are sceptical.

Am I correct to tell them they have a problem?

At the moment the computer is switched off, and disconnected from the internet, but I cannot be sure how long that will last.

Any help or advice very gratefully received.

David

[Dago]

Hi David,

  my advise would be to go in and un-install all the programs that you have mentioned, if you have an internet connection download AVG free antivirus and maybe Zonealarm free firewall or Ashamppo firewall burn them to disc and install them on your neighbours machine, AVG gives an option to install in Frensh but I am not sure about Zone Alarm. Good luck.

http://free.grisoft.com/doc/2/lng/us/tpl/v5

http://www.ashampoo.com/frontend/products/php/product.php?session_langid=2&idstring=0050

http://www.zonealarm.com/store/content/catalog/products/sku_list_za.jsp?dc=12bms&ctry=US&lang=en

best regards

[IMG]http://i55.photobucket.com/albums/g130/dago49/StMalo.gif[/IMG]

[tenniswitch]

David, did you go to Add or Remove Programs to make sure whether there are actually 2 Norton programs installed?

My advice would be that, before you uninstall any Norton products (which are notorious for leaving little nuisancy bits and pieces behind), go to the Norton website and download their removal tool.  Just leave it on the desktop until you need it.

If you're going to install any firewalls or antivirus programs not contained on the Orange installation disk (such as the AVG AV and ZoneAlarm FW recommended by Dago), download those to the desktop, also.  Don't install them yet.

Then, disconnect from the internet and uninstall all the Norton stuff through Add and Remove Programs.  Run the Norton removal tool at least once.

If you're going to use the Norton stuff provided by Orange, get the CD and do that now.  After the Norton FW is working you can turn off the Windows firewall.

If you're going with AVG and ZoneAlarm (or whatever), install them, firewall first, and turn off the Windows firewall.

Then you can reconnect to the internet (one hopes) and do whatever registration and updating may be necessary.  (If you're using the Norton from a CD, you'll definitely need to download updates.)

I'm sorry if all this is too elementary, but you said you aren't an expert (neither am I, but I've had some experience with Norton).

[Danny]

[quote user="Dago"]
AVG gives an option to install in Frensh but I am not sure about Zone Alarm.
[/quote]

Dago, That is not quite correct, AVG anti virus free is only available in English - it is possible to change the language only in the paid for version.

Zone Alarm Firewall free does have a french version

I would recommend avast anti virus also free and also in french version

Avast anti virus free download

Zone alarm firewall free download

David, these are direct links to the free versions. If you do not have internet access I would be happy to send you a disc with the french versions if you would like to pm or email me

Danny

EDIT - I have just noticed that ashampoo firewall appears to be only available in English or German versions

[LesLauriers]

This appears to be AVG free in French:

http://www.01men.com/contenu/4483/01men_telecharger-logiciels-windows-Securite/50226-avg-anti-virus-pare-feu

[Danny]

[quote user="Leslauriers"]This appears to be AVG free in French:

http://www.01men.com/contenu/4483/01men_telecharger-logiciels-windows-Securite/50226-avg-anti-virus-pare-feu
[/quote]

Hi LL, as I said, AVG free is only available in English. Your link is for a paid for version of AVG anti virus and firewall -  it has trial period of 30 days after which you must pay to continue to use it.

Danny

[Ron Avery]

I really cannot see a problem with having Norton running if it is being updated as part of an installed package in the PC.  The Orange virus protection package is not free although perhaps it should be.  The AVG free is not a good option as like a lot of these freebies it offers limited protection and will often tell you  that you have a problem after you have already got it.  The AVG paid for software is not that expensive for peace of mind, so I would leave Norton alone until the license expires and then change to AVG.

[Danny]

I used Norton for many years and found (like many others) it to be resource hogging. It was difficult to update, the daily update files were huge. It also conflicted with other software. When I did stop using it, it was a complete bugger to uninstall properly. I find that very annoying. I have since used AVG free and afterwards avast free for 2 years without any problems at all.

As I said, AVG free is not available in French so for those who want free anti virus in French Avast does the job. There are certainly many other paid for anti virus products and the best reviewed would seem to be Kaspersky.

Danny

 

[David]

Thank you all for your very helpful replies.  I will check the add/remove programs on their machine this afternoon - this morning I have been drawing pretty pictures of the windows symbols on my machine to help me with theirs. Thank you also for keeping it simple as I am not a computer expert.  I will print off the whole thread and see what I can do, but first some questions if I may, and sorry for the long post.

A) Do I take it that I am correct to think that there is a problem with conflicting firewalls, and antivirus, and that I must do something quickly, or will the computer keep running unaffected if I do nothing, or if I take my time?

B)  Is the antivirus and firewall on the Orange disk just another version of Norton?  If this is the case, then am I right in thinking there will be no conflict between that and the pre-installed Norton on the computer?

C) If I am correct in B), do I just have to disable the windows XP firewall, and all will be technically well other than paying for two versions of Norton?

D) When removing Norton through the add/remove programs do I just remove anything with Norton or Symantec in the name?

E) If I have to remove the program loaded from the Orange disk, does anyone know if there is an uninstall program anywhere?  Perhaps in the program itself?  Or on the disk?

F) Because of their total lack of computer savvy or knowledge, and the recklessness of the kids, depending on subscriptions paid, I am thinking of removing the preinstalled Norton; disabling the windows firewall, and anti-virus if any; then reloading the Orange disk for firewall and antivirus which they seem to have contracted to pay for.  My thinking is that they will then have a totally Orange system, and they can complain to Orange in the future if anything goes wrong, so as to be self sufficient and leave me out of it, especially if I am not here.  I know this will not be the best technical solution, but will it work?

G) A slightly different matter.  In preparation for working on the French machine, I have been practising on my machine and noticed something.  I uninstalled Norton about a year ago through add/remove programs, but I did not run the Norton removal tool as I was worried about ACT and Winfax as I did not know whether I had these programs (the Norton removal tool says to remove those products first, but they are not on the add/remove list.  I was worried they might be bundled in with Windows XP or Microsoft Office).  Today I have found in the add/remove programs on my machine "Symantec Technical Support Web Controls.  Size 7.23mb".  Should I remove this item?  Can I run the Norton removal tool without knowing whether ACT and Winfax are bundled in with something else on my machine?

Many many thanks,

David

[Danny]

Hi David, I will try to answer some of your questions

A) It is generally a good idea to use one firewall and one antivirus program at a time. Its impossible to say if the computer will be affected or not. It depends on too many things.

B)Don't know about the Orange and Norton being linked together but it is better just to use one or the other.

C)See B)

D)Yes - there may even be other stuff that is on the computer but not on the list. Use the Norton removal program

E) The Orange software should have an uninstall facility (on the list or somtimes in the program files folder)

F)Yes, I think it will work

G)Sorry, don't know - try a search on google for the phrase "symantec technical support web controls" and see what comes up and also search the Symantec site for clues. Not sure about the ACT and winfax stuff either 

Danny

[Megan le Fey]

I am absolutely not a techie so you will probably just have to ignore this post but just in case it is any help to you I am offering information, not advice....................  I bought my French computer about 16 months ago and it came complete with French Windows XP and Norton anti-everything plus a bunch of other "freebies".  The computer is HP and all the software has a backup on a partition of the hard-drive designated as D drive instead of a CD.  My French is rubbish so I was a bit lost but did my best.  After a month or two I discovered that all the "free" software, including Norton, was only valid for 3 months after which I had to pay to continue to use it.  Norton slowed everything down anyway and I hated it so I used their removal tool and got rid of it.  I now use AVG free, ZoneAlarm firewall  and so far, so good, no problems.   I think that your neighbours will find that they will be expected to pay a subscription to Norton if they keep it, probably to Orange as well.

[tenniswitch]

[quote user="David"]

A) Do I take it that I am correct to think that there is a problem with conflicting firewalls, and antivirus, and that I must do something quickly, or will the computer keep running unaffected if I do nothing, or if I take my time?

[/quote]

Running multiple firewalls and/or multiple antivirus will tend to cause software conflicts and slow down the system.  You should do something, but don't panic; your friends are probably not more vulnerable because of this.

[quote user="David"]

B)  Is the antivirus and firewall on the Orange disk just another version of Norton?  If this is the case, then am I right in thinking there will be no conflict between that and the pre-installed Norton on the computer?

[/quote]

It probably is another version of Norton, but there probably will be conflicts between the two versions.  That is why you will need to remove all Norton software first, even if you plan to reinstall one version.

[quote user="David"]

C) If I am correct in B), do I just have to disable the windows XP firewall, and all will be technically well other than paying for two versions of Norton?

[/quote]

No.  And do not disable the WinXP firewall immediately.  You must have a firewall running while connected to the internet (to download other software for example).  Before you uninstall and/or disable all firewalls, you must disconnect from the internet.  Physically.  Turn off or unplug the modem.

[quote user="David"]

D) When removing Norton through the add/remove programs do I just remove anything with Norton or Symantec in the name?

[/quote]

Yes.  And then run the Norton Removal tool which you have already downloaded to the desktop.  You may need to run it more than once.

[quote user="David"]E) If I have to remove the program loaded from the Orange disk, does anyone know if there is an uninstall program anywhere?  Perhaps in the program itself?  Or on the disk?

[/quote]

It should be in Add/Remove programs.  If it isn't, it should be removed by the Removal Tool.  If there was an uninstall program installed, you might find it by looking at the Start/All Programs list.

[quote user="David"]

F) Because of their total lack of computer savvy or knowledge, and the recklessness of the kids, depending on subscriptions paid, I am thinking of removing the preinstalled Norton; disabling the windows firewall, and anti-virus if any; then reloading the Orange disk for firewall and antivirus which they seem to have contracted to pay for.  My thinking is that they will then have a totally Orange system, and they can complain to Orange in the future if anything goes wrong, so as to be self sufficient and leave me out of it, especially if I am not here.  I know this will not be the best technical solution, but will it work?

[/quote]

Yes, but as I said, do not turn off the WinXP firewall before installing the new one unless you first disconnect from the internet.

[quote user="David"]

G) A slightly different matter.  In preparation for working on the French machine, I have been practising on my machine and noticed something.  I uninstalled Norton about a year ago through add/remove programs, but I did not run the Norton removal tool as I was worried about ACT and Winfax as I did not know whether I had these programs (the Norton removal tool says to remove those products first, but they are not on the add/remove list.  I was worried they might be bundled in with Windows XP or Microsoft Office).  Today I have found in the add/remove programs on my machine "Symantec Technical Support Web Controls.  Size 7.23mb".  Should I remove this item?  Can I run the Norton removal tool without knowing whether ACT and Winfax are bundled in with something else on my machine?

[/quote]

You should see ACT and Winfax in the All Programs and/or Add/Remove Programs list if they are installed on your computer.

Here is a link to a good tutorial on how to protect your computer:

http://forums.majorgeeks.com/showthread.php?t=44525

[David]

Many thanks to all of those who replied.  Yesterday I printed off the thread, and armed with this I steeled my resolve, girded my loins, braced myself, rolled up my sleeves, spat on my hands, mustered my courage, ran up the flag and attacked the neighbours machine.

After about four hours of bitter fighting the computer gave in, the two viruses fell on the field of combat, the speed of operation changed from a very long ten minutes to load the add/remove programs, to normal operation, and I left the field of battle victorious.

I left them with the Norton removed, Windows firewall disabled, and the Orange disk loaded.  All seemed to be well.  Initially add/remove programs would not load, and then when it finally did Norton would not delete.  However after lots of button pushing and much bad language muttered under my breath with the whole family gathered around looking over my shoulders, the machine surrendered.

Thanks very much to all those who helped, both I and my French neighbours are very grateful.

David

[Baz]

David, isn't it a great feeling when you win a battle against a computer. I am no techie but I have learnt so much from the help offered on this site and I am now able to do things that I would not have dared to attempt just a couple of years ago. But I suppose that is progress!!!

Baz

[David]

Baz,

I fully agree.  I felt great after beating the computer, and I also felt great being able to help my French neighbours.  They have done so much for me that it would take many pages on here to list what they have done.  It was good to be able to do a little in return.

I also wanted particularly to thank the people on this forum who helped me, as I could not have done it without them.

Again thanks,

David