channel 5 tv and radio classic FM

[chirpy]

Hi,

The above 2 items are giving problems since last week no ch5 tv received-have they gone bust?

and poor reception on  CLASSIC FM -it keeps breaking up.

we have done nothing to our set  and no interference from bushes trees etc.

thanks and all other broadcasts receied ok

[Martin963]

Are you using a Sky box or a free to air sat receiver,   or indeed Freesat?

Knowing which helps one to pin down which version of ch 5 you are actually using.

What about Capital FM and Planet Rock?

[chirpy]

we use a sky box

.

[Martin963]

Hmmmm,   one Horizontal off 2A and one Vertical off Eurobird (fixed beam).   Not very consistent!!

I take it you've tried unplugging from the mains and restarting?

If you press the services button and follow the links to "system setup" and then "signal test" what result do you get for signal *quality*?   It's only a rough guide and doesn't show all fault problems.

I'd try and see if your box works on someone else's dish,  because at first glance it does sound as though *something* (albeit subtle) might have happened to your dish/LNB/cable arrangements....

[Gardian]

[quote user="Ab"]

and poor reception on  CLASSIC FM -it keeps breaking up.

[/quote]

Same for us too, so you're not alone.

Will try the normal fix of unplugging though.

[mint]

I'm more interested in BBC Radio 3 and I have heard that a wifi radio is the receptor of choice as I will be able to listen in any room of the house.  But I know less than nothing about wifi radios.

Any knowledgeable person here who can please point me in the right direction?

[Anton Redman]

I found that the Classic FM transmissions are amongst the weakest and that once you have optimised Classic FM the quality on a couple of other weaker channels improved. Notes on fine-tuning the dish alignment. If the LNB is exactly vertical the Skew on the LNB has never been set and that is the probable cause. Viewed from the front it should  be at an angle between 6:30 and 7:30 on the face of a clock.

 

Fine tuning the dish alignment.  Before you start moving any thing. Mark the elevation on the dish with a paint line or scratch so that you can recover the same position if every thing goes wrong.  Walk down the garden at least 10 metres and and stand so that the LNB arm is aimed straight at you, hammer a stake into the ground so you can find the exact angle if anything goes wrong.  Wait for a dry day if possible and take you digibox and a small portable TV outside so that you can see them as you move the dish by minute amounts.  Maximise the signal strength then quality on the default transponder:  Move the dish up and down and left to right by minute amounts first maximising strength then quality.  Lock the position then move the LNB clockwise or anticlockwise and also in and out again concentrating on quality

 

Use the following sequence on the remote control

Services (green oval button)

4   System Set Up

0  1  Select ( NB nothing is shown on screen till you press Select)

2  Default transponder

 

 The Default Transponder Menu Looks like this

Frequency (GHz) 11.778

Polarisation V

Symbol Rate (Mbaud) 27.5

FEQ 2/3

Save New Settings

 

For ITV1 you change the setting to

Frequency (GHz) 10.758

Polarisation V

Symbol Rate (Mbaud) 22.0

FEQ 5/6

Save New Settings

 

For BBC 1

Frequency (GHz) 10.773

Polarisation H

Symbol Rate (Mbaud) 22.0

FEQ 5/6

Save New Settings

 

For Classic FM

Frequency 12.523

Polarisation V

Symbol Rate (Mbaud ) SR 27.5 

FEC 2/3

Save New Settings

Repeat the steps for maximising shown above.

Restore the default settings and check signal strength and quality are still OK (they may be a bit worse but if they are still good it is a step in the right direction).

 

Do not Try a Forced Software Upgrade till you have sorted out the signal quality.  

 

I found that the transmissions are amongst the weakest and that once you have optimised Classic FM the quality on a couple of other weaker channels improved

 

Classic FM also suffers because they play music with long quiet passages which give some problems for data compression. Still could be worse they could play John Cage's "4'33"," which would probably result in a loss of signal.

 

Parameters for other channels

 

http://www.lyngsat.com/packages/skyuk.html

 

Best of luck

[Bilbo]

I would think that you dish just needs a tweak. I find that Classic FM is the first channel to go if the dish is not quite on line or if there is heavy rain, for example. It might pay you to get a satfinder which responds better than relying on the signal check via the receiver. I would be very reluctant to start fiddling about with the box settings.

[Anton Redman]

As a first stage for Radio 3 via WiFi check out

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/

and see if you can listen to Radio 3. I can listen to World service but as my internet address is out side the UK I can listen to Radio 3.

There are other ways of sending Radio round the house once you have a Sky or freesat receiver.

[Martin963]

I suspect the original poster's problems for ch 5 might have started at the end of March when the Sky-versions of FIVE moved from 2C to 2A   (2C is off on its travels to add capacity in a different slot following a failure of the incumbent there).   

I'm trying to remember when Classic FM moved to the high Eurobird freqency - I suspect that if the OP's dish really hasn't moved at all they've been having problems for somewhat longer.   Anyway,   it does look as though a dish tweak to favour 2A and Eurobird Fixed is going to be needed - my hunch would be a gnat's crotchet to the east and then adjust the skew as Anton suggets.

Incidentally,   I don't see how long periods of lower level audio are going to cause problems either for MPEG 2 coding or to signal strength.   Even if the radio stations used statistical coding (which they don't AFAIK) there would be no question of the signal cutting out.   In fact low level audio is EASIER to code in a lossy system -  one of the reasons that so many radio stations sound so FRIGHTFUL in digital is that the audio has first been dynamically compressed to b***ery in a vain attempt to make the station sound "the loudest on the dial" and the lossy digital coding then has terrible problems to decide what parts of the audio to discard (a decision normally taken on the basis of quiet sounds being expendable because a louder sound will mask them).   With heavily compressed material all the componenets are loud and the audio coder has an unenviable task.

(Actually I now can't see anything about 2C moving elsewhere,  however its transponders do appear to have been cleared in readiness,  hence ch 5 moving to 2A)

[Anton Redman]

Bilbo - I have not found a sat signal meter that allows you to select frequency and polarisation for under £ 250. Cheap meters at best allow you to switch the LNB between high band and low band. Result is that you optimise alignment for the strongest signal from the cluster of Satellites. My very cheap French purchased digital receiver will display signal strength and quality for whichever channel is selected. The default transponder on a Sky Digibox is I believe the transponder for Sky 1 and Sky News and AFAIK is not the transponder for Classic FM. The process above is easy to access via the Sky Menu system and unlike the full installers menu does no require you to ignore the instructions on screen. If it was not there to be used it would not be included in the software.  Link to typical signal meter with switchable frequencies below. If anybody knows off a switchable system for under say £ 50 I would be interested.

http://www.wizardsatellite.co.uk/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=255 

Martin - agree I can see no reason why signal strength should be affected by long quiet passages. However if there is very heavy rain we will loose Classic FM but only during long slow passages. The box will drop Mahler but hang on to Vivaldi or Bach. Mind you it also spontaneously switches off the Living Room TV but not the Kitchen TV just as the titles finish at the start of 'Deal or No Deal' , unfortunately it immediately switches the TV back on.  So perhaps it is developing rudimentary taste?

[Martin963]

How odd Anton.   As you say a thoroughly discriminating box.

I suppose that subjectively a "dense" clasical piece might  "come over" more intelligibly than a slower quieter piece if there were constant errors and drop-outs.    We were shown a demo back in the early 80's at the BBC where the research dept  had made a bit of kit where you could select the number of "bits" in a digital coding/decoding circuit,  on R3 loss of quality became quickly noticeable as the number of bits was reduced,  whereas R1 was still perfectly intellible with only 3 bits,  I seem to remember that you could guess a pop track with only one bit but that might be my memory exaggerating.   Of course it sounded frightful by then....

Like you I long for a cheap and effective signal meter - I got one for about £8 and it is TOTALLY useless in all respects.

[chirpy]

What is 2c to 2a movement please?

I only did that move at grammar school along time ago.-60 years to be exact.

You are correct in thinking problems started inMarch[8-)]

[Anton Redman]

There are a cluster or group of Satellites in approximately the same position above the Earth which broadcast the Sat TV pictures there are called Astra 2A, Astra 2B and Astra 2C and are 28.2 degrees East. . Eurobird 1 which is at 28.5 degrees east can also be picked up with the same dish. Sometimes the owners of the satellites and broadcasters decide to move transmission mission between the satellites. Reasons include shifting so that the channels which are Free To Air are broadcast using the beam which is most tightly focused on the UK and also sorting things out for the launch of freesat.

If you ever want to loose the will to live, or want to understand more about the technology, I strongly recommend 'Guide to Satellite TV' by D.J.Stephenson. As a cheap and chearful / free 'Understanding Satellite TV' can be down loaded from the SATCURE  web site. The book is just at the bottom of the screen.

http://www.satcure.co.uk/book.htm

Unless you enjoy looking at pictures of blokes dressed in Joan Collins underwear do not google 'Sat TV'   

 

[chirpy]

I will try and not be tempted to google --unless it is joan collins herself>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Meanwhile thanks-I still have a will to live so may pass the opertunity to read guide to Satellite tv.

trying to learn bridge --now that's another story!!!!!!!!!

look's like we are in for a wet week in Limousin area so catching up on the inside jobs.[B]

[Martin963]

...   and the movement bit......

Well Astra and Eutelsat "plan" what satellites/powers/beams they need to provide from "their" slots in the sky,  and order the appropriate hardware and suitable launch facilities.

But the best laid plans can go awry,  either through manufacturing delays or failures.

Astra 1D has moved about an awful lot,  it started at 19 deg E for which it was planned,   then spent probably 18 monts at 28 deg E to launch Sky Digital in 1998,   because Astra 2A wasn't ready.    It went back to 19 deg,  then moved to 23 deg E.   Astra 2C went straight to 19 deg as added capacity following failure of one of the launches of Astra 1(? - can't remember,  L?),  came back to 28 deg E about a year ago,  did very little,  and may move to back up/help at 31 deg E (or thereabouts).

Once the sats are up in the Clarke belt it is relatively easy to nudge them gently east or west,  I seem to remember it took about three weeks to move from 19 deg to 28 deg E.   Not a good idea to lose control of them though!

And Eurobird at 28.5 deg E is a legacy of a pirate-style battle that Eutelsat and Astra fought many years ago,  at one point actually jamming each other.   In the end it was agreed that Eutelsat should have a bit of the lucrative 28 deg E "cake" by nesting in a position that could be accessed by Sky dishes pointing at Astra 2.

[Bilbo]

I am sure all you technical folk are correct in your details. However I have set up several systems for friends without doing anything very complicated and always find that if the signal is not quite as good as it could be, ClassicFM is the channel which breaks up first. My sat finder is a simple thing that whistles louder as the signal improves and it has done the job very well several times in conjunction with the signal test bars on the Sky box.

I have also come across some friends whose satellite was set up by a French company and linked to the internal aerial wiring in the house. Their signal breaks up very readily and I am inclined to think that the satellite feed has been connected to ordinary aerial cable instead of the higher quality cable that should be used for satellite connections. Just a thought ...

[Martin963]

Bilbo - I don't for a moment dispute your findings on Classic FM.   Problem may stem from the fact that most people will - in ordinary circs - want BBC/ITV/C4 as a priority,  and it is therefore sensible to set up the dish to favour Astra 2D,   which is at 28.2 deg E (as you know) but does have a slightly exaggerated "skew" which involves twisting the LNB away from the vertical more than the other sats require at 28.2 deg E.

Classic FM is on Eurobird which broadcasts an awful lot of the "less watched" channels,  and of course is several hundred miles away from Astra 2A/B/D at 28.5 deg E rather than 28.2 deg E.   Now on most dishes the difference is minor and Eurobird should be available,   but if you use the default transponder for Astra 2 when you do the set-up (or a crude sat meter that just sums all the signals it sees) then it's likely you'll end up discriminating against Eurobird to a certain extent,   and in poor weather conditions it'll be the first sat to disappear.  

Why the OP has only just started having problems I don't know,  maybe their dish has moved slightly and a nudge east (favouring Eurobird) might cure the problem,   It might also b****r up the BBC/ITV!

I agree about internal wiring,  some installers don't realise that certain junction boxes will kill a sat signal dead in its tracks,  I've had to take out such devices quite often to get a sat system running.

I'm sure you know all that but I'm labouring the point for the consumption of others!