Pet Passport/rabies jabs fiasco!

[Maddie]

I thought I would share will you my experiences!  I have 2 dogs, both had the old style UK pet passports.  Both had rabies jabs as soon as they were able (ie 14 weeks).  One is aged 2 and the other 3.  At the time the rabies shots were done they were valid (according to the manufacturer) for 2 years.  So, one has had the required booster (10 months ago) and the other's first jab is due to expire this December.  So their UK pet passports, in theory, expired one in December this year (24 months after the original jab) and the second in December next year (24 months after the booster jab).  With me so far?

Fine to return to the UK, yes?  Nope!  I went to my vet in France (he is great, by the way) who insisted on issuing new French pet passport documents (not the new EU one though as he had no idea when French vets were going to be issued with them) plus the tick and worm treatment.  Then the problem arose that one rabies jab was still valid according to French regulations (ie had been done less than 12 months previously) and the other not (ie done more than 12 months ago but less than 24 months and therefore still valid according to the UK manufacturers).  He got very confused by this. We entered France when one dogs rabies jab was over 12 months old but still valid according to the UK rules (I know it has to be done annually here in France and intended to get the boosters done when the the old pet passport expired for one dog and one year after the second dog was given the jab - so both were due for a trip to get French stylie rabies boosters in December). 

Simple right?  Nope.  The vet saw both rabies serum test results and was happy.  However, he was not happy that the UK rabies jab was valid for 2 years not for 1 year, as it is here in France, (both vaccines are produced by the same manufacturer, by the way, Rabisin and Leptorabisin!)  He tried to call someone at the Ministry but could not get through.  So his solution?  Vaccinate both dogs again now and reissue French PETS forms with a 12 month expiry date.  However, as one dogs jab had expired (according to French rules) he issued a blue form - indicating it was the first jab for this dog (and told me to keep it separate to all the other documents until we returned to France and use the old UK PETS form my old vet had given me to travel on) and a pink form for the other one!

Anyway, the documents we ended up with did the trick and we passed through the check point at Eurotunnel without hitch.  They did say that we definitely needed the new EU passport for reentering the UK in future (even though the documents we had are still valid for at least another year).

Solution?  Having to visit a UK vet (who seem to be the only ones that actually have the documentation) who charged £80 for 2 new passports (just filling in the booklet and scanning the dogs microchips)!  He then got all sniffy when he saw that the French vet had insisted on reissuing his perfectly valid UK PETS paperwork.  My vet in France charged 110 Euros which covered 2 tick and worm treatment certificates plus the treatments themselves (20 euros x 2), 2 French PETS forms plus the annual combination rabies/annual parvo etc booster(35 euros x 2) and issuing the French rabies certificates.  AND we were in his office for 75 minutes!  A bargain!

You may also be interested to know that the latest rabies jab given in the UK (by this UK vet anyway) is valid for THREE years!  I am sure this will only cause even more confusion.  The new EU passport looks great and has spaces for all sorts of vaccination records which can only be a good thing.  My only concern is that mine is a UK passport (and I now live in France) and does not have any translations into other languages like the old paperwork had.  Let's hope all newly issued EU passports take the same format regardless of issuing country or I can foresee even more confusion!

[Boiling a frog]

We had similar problems.

Both our dogs originally had UK pet passports with rabies jab valid for 2 years.At renewal day for rabies jabs we were residing in France so took dogs to our French vet.He had a look at paperwork and said that rabies jab sould have been done every year according to French rules however he phoned the ministry who told him to go ahead and give dogs rabies jab and because they were originally jabed in UK this was valid but from now on they would have to be done every year He even said that if a French dog was to be jabed in the UK for rabies with a 2 year validity this would not be valid in France it has to be every year.

We returned to UK in August for a holiday with the French euqivelent of a PETS certificate as the French were not issueing pet passports

In the UK we asked what paperwork was required for returning to France it used to be a PETS 5 but UK vets were no longer issueing PETS 5 so we had to get new style Pets Passports from a UK vet at a cost of £60

On our return to France we went to our vet to get the rabies booster for this year He was most impressed with the new style pet passports and completed the part for the booster rabies jab etc without a problem

PS We are in the Charente near Mansle if anyone elso in the area has problems I can recomend the vet in Mansle

 

[Maddie]

Glad (well not really but you know what I mean) we are not the only ones to have had this experience.   The moral?  Just make sure you get your dogs jabbed for rabies annually if you live in France to avoid any possible complications!  Have yet to find out what my French vet thinks of the new EU passport!Also, it seems to be SO MUCH cheaper to get treatemens ie the combi rabies/lepto/parvo/disptempter/influenza etc jab done in France!

[Corinne]

Like a lot of rules this is just another one that differs between France and the UK, or should I say the rest of Europe.  In the UK it may well be ok to go on the drugs companies expiry date but in France they have chosen to go by a fixed period (1 year for revaccination).  If you live in France or plan to bring your dog regularly then it is going to be necessary to have the Rabies jab done based on the minimum requirement of yearly.  We take our dog to a vets in German (10 minutes over the boarder) so have only had one experience of the vets in France but found France to be so much more expensive.  Rabies is done yearly in Germany also.  We have been issued with the new European union pet passport that is in both German and English but to my surprisingly not French also.  No surprise (but personely disappointed) then to hear that the UK issued one is ONLY in English. Just to give a guide on costs.  Our dog had her yearly injections done in July, including rabies.  Injections cost 39,40 Euro, Microchipped (for the sake of new passport) 25,50 Euro and the new passport, a bargain at 1,98 Euro giving us a total of just over 77 Euro.

[Stocky]

I replied to an earlier item regarding Rabies jabs and mentioned that in the new pet passport the manufacturers state the jabs are for two years.  This is a valid statement by them.

The secret is that the manufacturers do not make government decisions.  The rules for France and UK is that the Rabies injections only last for one year.  Miss this date by one day and you have to go through the process again.  All dog owners are made aware of this when the initial process is started.

Sorry about your problem but the moral is look at Defra and abide by Government guidelines not manufacturers.

Ian

[I1]

When I first moved out to France, even though my dog had been rabies vaccinates yearly (in the UK) and had the vaccination record to prove it, when it came time to have the rabies vaccine in France, he got a blue form (as the vet did not recognise the UK vaccination certificate - though it was no problem as it does not seem to be restrictive.

My real concern at the moment is for my 2nd (French) dog who has been microchipped, rabies vaccinated, passed teh blood test, etc. and will be 6 months after boolod sample by christmas but I can see no sign of the new Pet Passport paperwork and my vet (who is really "on the case") has no idea when they might arrive. she is a nervous dof and I really would not want to leave her in kennels, yet really want go go back to see parents and family at christmas.

Does anybody know if the French authorities have indicated when the paperwork will be available ?

Also, does anybody know if I can get some U paperwork sent over by a UK vet to be filled-in by a French vet ? (or would this be invalid) ?

[mutley]

you can use the old french paperwork until the new EU cert comes in. Just ask your vet to issue a old style cert. if your vet says no get them to ring and clarify the situation as it is legal until the new ones are printed

 

[Stocky]

French Passports are due at the end of this month.  However if the French are like the British it will be next year.

Although we had the British Passport on our last visit the French vet still completed the old forms and these were accepted at the Ferry terminal.  All things considered the people who deal with dogs at the terminals role is booking in cars, where the number of dogs they deal with is low, and they accept what they are used to until they hear otherwise.  In the UK there is has been no interest in our dog by anybody.  the fact you have to put up a "Dog on board" sticker (That is misnamed, it never sticks) while in the operators hands is meaningless.

[I1]

Last time I travelled France to UK with my dog I lost the "dog on-board" sticker. I was also then stopped by UK Customs and asked if "I had anything on-board I should not have" - to which I answered no with this dog leaping around in the back (clearly visible) and I was just let through.

[I1]

I think the frequency of rabies vaccination boosters is determined by the licensing requirements for a rabies vaccine rather than the duration of immunity provided by a particular brand. Were the rules to be “if you vaccinate with brand X, then its boosters very 2 years, but with brand Y its every year …” it would be complex and everybody would get it wrong (at least I would). Thus I guess a country sets a rule and vets (rightly or wrongly) follow that rule.

For a rabies vaccine to be licensed it must provide immunity for 1 year, hence the booster frequency being every year. In practice I guess many vaccines do far better (maybe they all do – I don’t know). I notice that the Pet Passport scheme no longer specifies the booster frequency but the EU passport now has a “Valid Until” date against the booster (www.defra.gov.uk/animalh/quarantine/pets/procedures/Support-info/vacci.htm). I guess that for routine “within UK” vaccinations against rabies, the UK can afford to be a bit more relaxed (as it doesn’t really have too bad a rabies problem) whereas e.g. France is a bit more paranoid about keeping rabies out (as it is still prone to occasional incidents of infection).

If people are interested in the duration of protection provided by vaccinations http://195.184.239.210/health/boostervaccinations2.html is a short interesting article.

[mutley]

[quote]I think the frequency of rabies vaccination boosters is determined by the licensing requirements for a rabies vaccine rather than the duration of immunity provided by a particular brand. Were the rul...[/quote]

Speculating again I1  theres a lot of guessing going on there

[I1]

Actually the information came from the “Vetinary Record” magazine (vet’s professional magazine), the particular article being written by a vet (who cited the sources of information it contained).

To allow people to check what I had written (as I was repeating information from others RATHER THAN GUESSING), I provided the links to the relevant article.

I actually take it in “bad form” to be accused of “speculating again”. When I post something I am not confident about I generally include comments such as “as far as I’m aware” (or something similar).

You may know more that the vet who wrote the article concerned in which case take it up with him rather than accusing me of speculating.

BEFORE CRITISIZING, TAKE THE TROUBLE TO READ WHAT IS WRITTEN AND MAYBE FOLLOW THE REFERENCED LINKS.

An important aspect of forums is to allow people to give and receive help from others who have knowledge or experiences that may assist others. This “criticizing others” attitude that some seem to adopt on forums is not helpful and does not encourage others to participate.

I apologise if my response is a bit strong but I get a bit ******-off by people being critical when others are only typing to help, provide information, etc. It’ well “out-of-order”.

[Teamedup]

Il, I would have thought that most of this was set in motion by the Uk govt, I didn't think that the french govt cared really.  And the Uk govt would be less worried about brit pets as there is no rabies in the UK so them having a vaccine that lasted two years would be fine, whereas pets from abroad would be treat as higher risk. (There seems little logic in this incidentally, but that is how I thought that their reasoning went).

I then imagined that as soon as one moved to France, then a pet stops being a brit pet, but an overseas pet and all laws applicable to any other animal from that country would apply to them. It never seems as if  there is too much concern about over jabbing animals. If one misses the ferry and ends up out of that window then we are expected to have our animal re jabbed with the worming stuff  and frontline again, even though it would have been done a day or so previously.

 

Not being critical or anything, just saying how I see this. 

[I1]

No criticism taken. My outburst was as, having found something that I thought would be interesting and maybe useful to people, to then be told I’m speculating just makes me wonder why I bother.

I know nothing of DEFRA politics but entirely agree about not liking pumping pets full of drugs. Ages ago back in the UK I actually got a bit annoyed with my vet when I took my dog in with a “runny tummy”. Vet didn’t know what it was but it wasn’t desperately serious – so he just gave a course of non-specific antibiotics “just in case”. I’m always quite happy for people to say “don’t take an asprin but just rest it” (or equivalent).

Starting the dreaded speculation, I think that piroplasmose may be one of the reasons DEFRA are concerned about French ticks emigrating. It does sound pretty nasty and as far as I’m aware, is not currently in the UK.

If your pet stays in France for 3 months it becomes resident and needs to be registered with the SCC (something I've been a bit remiss about but will do soon). Certainly the French reaction to the recent rabies incident has been quite “extensive” (for want of a better word). However, without knowledge of things like disease control I don’t know how much of that is justified to contain risk and how much politics. Certainly I have read that is was not the first case this year and there have been other case in the last few years.

[mutley]

Roaring with laughter Tetchy? I1

The points you quoted were of course accurate however your speculation and sumising in between summed up with several I guess shows that its never wise to extrapolate UK laws and practice with any other country and specifically France. I'm surprised at your sensitivity on the issue surely confidence comes from knowing you are right.

 

 

[I1]

There is room for both speculation/opinion and fact in a forum, provided that speculation/opinion is clearly presented as such. What I am sensitive to (and have seen on several occasions to different individuals) is negative comment that adds nothing except a “poke” at the author.

People need to be encouraged to participate and not to receive negative comments when making posts (particularly when they are quite valid).

A general comment “Speculating again I1 theres a lot of guessing going on there” appears as a general “dig” rather than disagreeing with specific points – adds nothing to the discussion and is just negative. I have no problem with people disagreeing with me (I actually welcome it as our opinions develop through discussion). Similarly, should I have “got the wrong end of a stick” then I welcome being corrected.

With regard to opinion I do not consider there is a “right” (nor “wrong”).

I’ve said my bit. Bye.

[mutley]

2+2 = ??

[hoverfrog]

2+2=5 for large values of 2

This is something we have been telling the kids for a long time (both being computer programmers)

[Kristine]

[quote]I thought I would share will you my experiences! I have 2 dogs, both had the old style UK pet passports. Both had rabies jabs as soon as they were able (ie 14 weeks). One is aged 2 and the other 3....[/quote]

I totally agree with all thats been written,the situation in Europe tends to be farcical when anything to do with the UK is concerned.

We bought our first dog when we were living in Paris,we bought him from Belgium and flew Air France with him in the cabin in a basket,he was 12 weeks.

We travelled throughout France,Italy,and regulary to Spain,never once having to show any documents either for him or our equally well travelled cat.

It´'s only when the UK is involved that it all goes pear shaped.We have solved this problem,we never travel back to the Uk together ! Drastic,but it works,and until they sort it out for once and for all,this is how it will continue for us.

[Teamedup]

Kristine, it is actually rather simple once you have done the initial paper work and tests/jabs to take your pet back. Our only hold up is the not being able to cross the sea to the UK until 24 hours after the jab and treatment. However as we live so far from the coast anyway, it has never been too much of a problem either when we have to rush back.

As far as I can tell, my french Vet adheres to DEFRA rules concerning animals living in other european countries wishing to travel to the UK, as do the people at the ferry. And once an animal moves to France then after a very short amount of time comes under these rules and anything that has been said or done for UK resident animals is no longer valid.

The only fiasco has been the lack of the new pet passports since last autumn.