New laws regarding dangerous dogs

[Wendy]

Is anyone else here welcoming the new legislation regarding the categorisation of dangerous canine breeds?

I certainly am. I just wish the UK would follow suit.

Personally, I cannot stand dobermans. One attacked me when I was nine and I was on my way home from school, it belonged to a neighbour who used to let it run free in the street in the afternoon; I needed 35 stitches to my arm...bloody thing's name was 'Pixie' and it was the devil incarnate. It got run over and killed by a car not long after[:D]...my parents wanted to nominate the driver for an OBE.

 

 

[Will]

What's new about it, please?

[Christine Animal]

Yes, Jura.  Could you give us the new legislations please.  We shall all be very interested to know what they are.

 

[Framboise]

You cannot tar all dobermans with the same brush as Pixie.  There  are some that are gentle old softies, as in rottweilers in my own personal opinion.   

We have always had big dogs (Great Danes and now  a Dogue de Bordeaux) who is gentle lumbering creature that simply adores our little granddaughter, but I would trust her over and above some nasty nippy little Jack Russell because these can cause just as much injury as a big dog could.     My granddaughter was bitten in the face recently by her other gran's snappy King Charles Spaniel who is jealous of her - this dog is not being forcibly muzzled for the attack, but mine have to be when we take them out even if they have attacked nothing and nobody.   The rules should apply to all dogs, not just ones perceived as "Bad guys" 

[Wendy]

I read that owners of certain breeds  i.e pitbulls, who will be classed as category one, (cull the lot of them I say) and rottweillers who will be classed as cat two, will have to prove their competance with regards to handling them.

I would like to see such dogs not allowed to be owned as domestic pets. Because they were never bred to be such. Too many clueless humans buying them I'm afraid and too many children dying as a result of attacks from these creatures. Two babies this past week and one on new years eve last year..three too many.

 

[Christine Animal]

Wait Framboise until Jura gives us exactly the new legislation   [;-)]   [:)]

as he/she seems to know about it.

 

Edit :  Sorry Jura, replied at the same time.  Your answer is rather vague to say the least.  You read that "certain breeds...".  [:D]  A legislation is surely more specific than that.

 

 

[Wendy]

I am surprised that some of you are unaware of the new laws being introduced here...if your dog ever bites someone then be prepared to lose it!

Read page nine of the January issue of The Connexion "New laws to rein in dangerous dogs and punish owners'.

I read a similar report in our local 'Independant' newspaper in December. Along with the story of a 14 month old boy being killed by a rottweiller that was supposedly a 'family pet' in a suburb of Paris that month.

These laws cannot come too soon in my opinion.

                                                        

[Russethouse]

Do you have a link Jura ?

[Wendy]

Here's what it says:

"The new laws, which have passed their first reading, will require certain classified 'dangerous dogs', of which there are about 600,000 in France, to be taken for annual behavioural evaluations. Fighting dogs, such as pitbulls and staffordshire bull terriers, will be placed in the highest Category 1. Guard dogs, including rottweilers, will be Category 2 dogs."

"The owner of any dog which has bitten someone will have to declare the incident at the mairie. If this is a dog which has been classified as dangerous, the owner must take a competance test in order to keep it. The owner(s) of a dog responsible for a death will be liable to a jail sentence of up to ten years."

"All dogs will need to be classified by a vet as soon as they are bought."

"This project will need to undergo a second reading before it is formally adopted."

I hope it does and will be. Little children being killed by the 'family pet' is totally unacceptable and just deplorable.

 

[Framboise]

Yes Jura,  it is down to idiot owners and fools who think it OK to leave a baby with a thirteen year old so they can go out on the razzle.

Of course I feel for the children - I've had four of my own - but dogs are frequently used as a status symbol, as in pitbulls with a certain type of person  so don't blame the animal for the imbecile that decided it would be good for their street cred to have a dog capable of that horrific act. With the case last year it was the drug-dealing uncle's dog and one this year was the grandmother's dog that killed the child.   Granny already knew of the animal's reputation and took it in precisely for its fearsome behaviour, the dog was usually kept separated from the household and was  loose in the house because there had been a spate of burglaries locally.  Unfortunately the baby was viewed as the intruder in the home with terrible consequences.

Now my two were on lead last month (and muzzled) when some revolting mutt attacked them / me for no reason other than "He doesn't like other dogs......", according to the irresponsible owner who stood there sniggerring as I lay in the mud holding them back.   My old Lab x was bitten on his bum by this nasty mutt and could not respond anyway as he was muzzled, but the other thing was off leash and unmuzzled, even when the owner knew what he was likely to do if he came across another dog on his travels.    Who is the irresponsible one there then?    Mine were on leash, muzzled and controlled by me - quite a contrast to the other one.  

I would trust my two with my 3 year old granddaughter or any child.  I personally do not like small yappy dogs, especially Jack Russells as I have seen one turn on a small child and take a chunk out of his cheek just for toddling past, plus I know of two owners who gave their JR's away because they had seen signs that the dog was not going to adapt to a child entering their family unit.    They are best kept as an older family pet, however you cannot place a blanket ban on a particular breed for a relatively small number of incidents because I am sure there are thousands of rottweilers who live peacefully and happily within a family and adore their children.  

Pitbulls though were specifically bred for what they do and how they act - blame people for that. 

[Bilclarie]

The deed should be punished not the breed and the stupid owners of said dog/dog's, I have always owned Dobes and would never consider owning anything else I have never owned or meet a bad Dobe in my 24yrs of owning the breed, meet plenty of bad owner's though who buy a guard breed as an accessory and haven't a clue as to what there buying or how to train / bring them up properly they should sort the idiots out that buy them before they do that way these so called dangerous dog's become less dangerous.And please don't tar all dog's of the same breed with the same brush these pictures where taken after one of our ewes had tripplets on Christmas eve just gone and orphaned one of them and a so called dangerous dog has been taken care of him ever since with the other 4 dangerous dog's that live with me, but you never get to hear about the better side of there charactor

 

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[Wendy]

Exactly Framboise, these new laws will target imbecile owners. That's where the problem lies. However, what purpose the pitbull serves to life on earth is beyond me...

We were walking in Collioure last year, past one of the lovely cafes. A couple had one of those yappy, snappy little white terrier things tied to the leg of their table and it jumped out snarling and tried to take a bite out of my three year old sons leg with its nasty little mouth as we passed by. My husband's foot directed sharp and hard, and in good time, at it's teeth did the job in discouraging it from going any further. He gave it one hell of a kick. The owners were not too impressed when it yelped, however it saved my little boy from a nasty injury. Too bad if the owners were pissed about their spiteful little mutt being kicked...humans are definately the problem when it comes to dogs and their behaviour. Especially those who claim  'my dog would never hurt anyone'.

This is why we need these laws. And the sooner the better.

[Rob Roy]

Are there any dogs you do like Jura, or have you tarred them all with the same brush? You still haven't given the official information, or a link to it, regarding the new laws - just some quotes from a newspaper article.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Cat]

Could it be this newish law that Jura is referring to?  It seems to say nothing about adding extra categories of "dangerous" dogs, just that some dogs not previously considered dangerous might now become so due to their weight, and that the owners of such dogs should have to have an attestation of aptitude to own such a dog, and the dogs themselves undergo a periodic behavioural check?

http://www.assemblee-nationale.fr/13/dossiers/chiens_dangereux_protection.asp

 

 

 

[raindog]

I used to do alot of off road biking and was attacked several times by big dogs. I thought about mounting a can of tear gas on my handlebars for protection but never got round to it. I still ride, but only on roads now, but i'm still nervous whenever riding down a deserted country lane and coming across a dog standing "waiting" in the middle of the road.

So called "attack" dogs should be eradicated imo, but I doubt they ever will.

Anyone who lets a small child play around a dog needs their head looking at.[:@]

[Bilclarie]

But why should I have to muzzle my dogs in public they have never done any harm to anyone and aren't likely too as they have been brought up properly so my dog's have to suffer because stupid people can't keep there dog's under control I for one am not looking forward to the new laws comming in and I'm not alone in this.

[londoneye]

Yes, but you simply cannot predict what a dog will do.   As a child we always had German Shepherds.   One in particular was the softest thing ever, frightened of everything.  She took a chunk out of the tv repair man's bum when he turned around quickly and in the dogs eyes lurched towards me and also once bit a young man who tried to attack me (I was 15) when I was out walking her in the fields one day.   She didn't really bite him badly, just took him down by the arm, like a fully trained police dog, but of course she went through the skin of the arm.  She was forgiven for that one by the local police in UK when they heard the full story, and the TV man didn't make a complaint.  

I loved that dog, and she would have done anything for me, but I do think some dogs are more unpredictable than others, no matter how well you train them.    We didn't muzzle her as it happnes but from then on she only went for walks literally out in the local fields where there was no-one else around.

My neighbour has a rottie, she is gorgeous (the dog).   Similarly a friend in UK always had rescue rotties, and they were all gorgeous and friendly etc etc, BUT they can also be unpredictable, and the only safe way to protect your own dog and everyone else is to muzzle them in public.

I would actually never have a German Shepherd again, or a rottie or similar for that matter, because I don't want the worry and hassle, but if I did I would muzzle in public, no question, just to protect the dog's own interests.

[Deimos]

One of the difficulties with muzzling a dog is that it prevents (or blocks) some of their normal dog-dog communications (e.g. mouth/tongue gestures).  Thus, when two dogs meet, should one (or more) have a muzzle then this increases the probability of the meeting not going as well as it might otherwise.  Nothing to do with dogs not being used to the things, but even the open cage type stop another dog seeing some of the muzzled dog's communications -> problems.

Dogs are part of our society (something even non-doggy people need to recognise).  It is true that a dog can be unpredictable.  But then so can a drunk with a bottle (or with fists or with a car).  Not to say problems don't need to be addressed but I would not be in favour of blanket "muzzle them all" laws - not a solution to the problem.  That said, I do not have adequate experience to comment on different breeds tendencies to aggression towards humans.

From my experiences with dogs in France I am amazed there are not far more incidents.  Apart from the abysmal way dogs are handled by people, a lot of the training is just "totally outdated".  Obviously a sweeping statement and there are some good people but there are a lot of bad owners/trainers creating a lot of unreliable dogs.

Ian

[Framboise]

"From my experiences with dogs in France I am amazed there are not far more incidents.  Apart from the abysmal way dogs are handled by people, a lot of the training is just "totally outdated".  Obviously a sweeping statement and there are some good people but there are a lot of bad owners/trainers creating a lot of unreliable dogs."

I agree Ian.   Neighbours of ours last year had a little dog which barked non-stop, desperate for company yet tied up to a kennel in the garden so it yapped all the time.   Luckily the lady of the house found him a home with her elderly parents who had the time to devote to the little chap, but not all are so fortunate which is why the refuges are always full.

Jura questioned why people would want a Pitbull anyway, yet as I explained these were bred specifically for the purpose of being fearsome and for dogfighting - a heinous activity.   A certain element in the USA adopted owning Pitbulls as a social stance to exhibit some sort of macho thing amongst drug-dealers, gangsta rappers and such like, ie. "I got the bling.  Here's my kalashnikov and this is my dog....", to which it became another dubious accessory of fame compliments of MTV etc.  Its not the animal's fault - they were bred by man to fulfill some warped demand for a fashion accessory, just like the handbag-rats as sported by Paris Hilton and her ilk.   The pitbull is a victim of mankind who bred him for one purpose alone - to be vicious and scary.

A blanket ban would be hard to enforce because I am told that large dogs already must be muzzled in public in France and I have seen quite a few walking the streets without them regardless.  My dogs are already muzzled when we go out here in UK and this is for their protection as much as anything else because they have been set upon several times for no reason.   The first time the lab x defended himself and the other dog had a heart attack later that day and died, but the owner accused mine of causing the trouble which was blatently untrue then proven when another dog walker said she had seen the whole thing.   Now mine are muzzled whenever we go out in public, therefore if another dog decides to start a fight well there is no way mine can be accused of injury - unless they sit on the other dog of course!   Why is it always those small ratty dogs that like to pick fights with mine anyway?  [:(]

[raindog]

Yet another horrific case on the national news today of a 2 and a half year old child killed yesterday in the Beaujolais by a 4 year old rottweiler which had never shown any previous agression. Makes you weep it does. [:@]

[Christine Animal]

Yes it is absolutely terrible, but it would be interesting to know who and what type of people the owners are.

The other night there was a programme on about accidents in the home.  It was said that in France two children die every day from swallowing different things, burns, falling out of windows, etc.

 

[raindog]

I know what you mean christine, but they're accidents - being savaged to death by an unnecessary breed of dog isn't, in my book.

[Goldfish]

Thats so sad [:(]

I must admit that dobies & rotties aren't my favorite dogs (only because I prefer fluffy dogs) & neither are jack russels (my aunt used to have a very yappy nippy one), but like human there are good and bad in every breed. If they are to bring out new laws then it would make better sence for EVERY dog and owner to have to have some form of behaviour interview & test yearly.

My "yappy, snappy little white terrier things" (which aren't actually yappy and have never snapped even when pulled or grapped by a toddler or crawling baby) are fantastic around children and I trust them 98% (I won't go higher because they are dogs and they are terriers and I'm not stupid enough to think they would never ever snap). I have found the kids asleep with the dog in the dog bed (not ideal but cute), they are lovely little dogs but strong willed. I'd have no problem at all about taking them for a behaviour test.

 I have kept German shepherds, westies, golden retrievers and recently we took in a rescue cocker spanniel (who had to be returned because he did keep nipping the toddlers legs in play but I wasn't prepared to risk it whilst he was trained). All dogs and breeds are different. You can't put all dogs in the same breed into the same box cause there are so many environmental factors that help to shape the character of the dog & not just it's genes & breeding. I had 3 German Shepherds all with very different characters (who were all big softies) & 4 westies who couldn't be more different. Two of my westies I took in as rescues and they had problems after being misstreated but both adored my children. I only have the 2 westies at the moment one I had as a 10 week old pup and she bold as brass  cause she was socialised and played with, the other was left in kennels until I had him at 20 weeks old and is alot more reserved.

You can't judge a whole breed on an exeperience of just a few dogs. All owners must be responsible for their dogs, for making sure they are trained to an exceptable standard and controlled whilst out in public.

My final words...Not all small dogs are yappy snappy little things, and not all large breeds are fiercy menaces [:D]

        

[Christine Animal]

A dog who does such a thing, whatever the reason, should obviously be put down.  But it's unfair to want to wipe out all the others who have done nothing.  As the accidents in the home or anywhere else, there is a risk in everything.  It's up to the parents to try to see they don't happen and never leave their small children alone with a dog.

I remember years ago in England something which shocked me.  A young couple went out to the pub or somewhere and left their baby at home with two ferrets in a cage.  The two ferrets managed to get out and chewed the baby to death.

 

[Bilclarie]

[quote user="raindog"]I know what you mean christine, but they're accidents - being savaged to death by an unnecessary bread of dog isn't, in my book.
[/quote]

 

So what breed of dog's are unnecessary then? because if you look at it that way they all are so why not destroy every breed / mutt solves the problem.