Seems its true then!

[Val_2]

Just been looking at the website of property for sale here in Brittany with one of the very larger "boys" in the french property sales game and there is absolutely nothing to buy even for total or part renovation under £100K anywhere in the four depts here. I was still under the impression that there were ruins for at least £70K but seems not and I think these people would have them on their site if there were. Anyone have any thoughts on this change of direction from three or four years back when you could still find plenty to do up for a reasonable price or are the Bretons now cutting out these agents and only dealing with notaires of self-advertising which seems to be gaining popularity round here.

[Will]

Val, we're not in Brittany but dept 35, which is of course, is only just down the road. I've looked at our local agent's site and there still seems to be a reasonable selection under 100,000€, both for renovation and some smaller habitable/restored places. Cheapest still available is just under 23000€, i.e. under £16K, including agency fees, for a barn with CU.

I think anywhere on or very near the coast is very expensive, be it in Brittany or elsewhere. Apartments in Granville are suposed to be the hot properties here according to the local paper.

I can't say what the Bretons are doing but in Normandy sellers do seem to be using the agencies instead of, or as well as, notaires or private ads, because if they have the sort of house that is likely to appeal to overseas buyers they know that they have a better chance of finding those buyers quickly through the specialist agents.

[Miki]

.................. we're not in Brittany but dept 35

Bet you spot that soon enough Bill, 35 is where I am and as you know, that is Brittany.

You have taken Le Mont St Michel from us, don't try for Saint Malo et al,  as well !!!

[Coco]

I think it's just Bill's punctuation that makes it read like that Miki.  I thought that's what he meant too when I first read it.  Knowing that he lives in 50 I re-read it and realised what he was getting at.

[Dick Smith]

[quote].................. we're not in Brittany but dept 35 Bet you spot that soon enough Bill, 35 is where I am and as you know, that is Brittany. You have taken Le Mont St Michel from us, don't try f...[/quote]

Miki - we took the Mont St Michel in 1064, IIRC, with the help of some Englishman called Harold Godwinsson. That's a long time to bear a grudge.

[Miki]

[quote]Miki - we took the Mont St Michel in 1064, IIRC, with the help of some Englishman called Harold Godwinsson. That's a long time to bear a grudge.[/quote]

Dick,

By "we", do I take it that Richard Coeur de Lion de Carshalton or "Smudger the First" as I believe one of your ancestors was called, took the Mount with Godwinssons army and in effect for his help in gaining the Mont, you now have land (cottage) in Normandy?

Sorry Bill, having read Coco's post, I realise that your were indeed writing that 35 is a neighbouring Breton dept. Tis tough, this speaking by text n'est ce pas?

[Dick Smith]

I think my ancestor was the one you can see in the Bayeux tapestry walking behind the horses with a shovel and bucket.

[Coco]

Better that than having an arrow sticking out of his eye!

[Will]

I couldn't possibly comment on who Mont St Michel belongs to other than the fact that it's clearly and incontrovertibly Norman property.

"Sorry Bill, having read Coco's post, I realise that your were indeed writing that 35 is a neighbouring Breton dept. Tis tough, this speaking by text n'est ce pas?"

Quite so Miki. Funnily enough dept 53 is also just down the road from us, which strictly speaking is in Pays de Loire, but seems to think it's in Normandy, an idea which seems to be encouraged by this forum and several guide books. I had a job a couple of years ago checking and updating a guide to Normandy, which actually included Le Mans.

[Miki]

[quote]I think my ancestor was the one you can see in the Bayeux tapestry walking behind the horses with a shovel and bucket.[/quote]

That would be Harold de Shepherds Bush then, rather than the one who tried to head one away but copped it in the eye instead

Bill, I have a Normandy guide that shows Alencon (borderline?), Le Mans and Mayenne as well.

 

[Dick Smith]

I think the tediously historical answer is that all of that used to be part of the Norman patrimony (about 1100) - Henry II marrying Catherine of Anjou?

And no, Harold wasn't hit in the eye! It's a myth. In fact they mythed him completely...

[Neil]

If Harold didn't get an arrow in the eye, then presumably the rhyme attributed to him is apocryphal:

Better to die

With an arrow in the eye

Than away to pass

With a spear...

[Miki]

[quote]I think the tediously historical answer is that all of that used to be part of the Norman patrimony (about 1100) - Henry II marrying Catherine of Anjou?And no, Harold wasn't hit in the eye! It's a my...[/quote]

Can I leave it to you then Dick, to tell my old history teacher, Mr Gwilliam (right spelling) that he mislead me? and who is going to tell La Reine Mathilde to unstitch the tapestry?   

[Dick Smith]

Ah! to be tediously pedantic (but I am a tedious pedant) it was a restorer in the 19C who did that with the arrow - the original needle holes go elsewhere. Harold is now generally held to be the man being cut down by a knight using a sword. This is backed up by the written records which state that that was how he was killed - in fact William punished the knights concerned for mutilating his body (there were 4 of them but I can't remember their names). So I am afraid Mr Gwilliam was, is, and probably now shall be for all time, in error.

[Jill<br><br>Jill (99)]

[quote]Ah! to be tediously pedantic (but I am a tedious pedant) it was a restorer in the 19C who did that with the arrow - the original needle holes go elsewhere. Harold is now generally held to be the man b...[/quote]

And so you should be! Next time it's restored, perhaps they can put it to rights - or preferably, before then, do a copy of that bit to show the proper story. The cheek - re-writing history! Oh well, I suppose all the facts vary according to who's telling it!

[Drenek]

Val, I don't know which of the "larger boys" you were searching with, nor which website you were looking at, but I can assure you that there are still plenty of properties available under 100k, and some of those do not even need renovation work! Indeed, there are some right here in Finistere, and I know that there are some in 22 also. This may mislead some people who may be searching, so I shall say to them that a good "benchmark" would be to visit Century 21.fr. to see for themselves. As for Bretons cutting out agents, I would doubt it! If they were sure they would realise their asking price selling through an agent, they would not hesitate to do so! More than one Breton has told me so!

[Miki]

[quote]Ah! to be tediously pedantic (but I am a tedious pedant) it was a restorer in the 19C who did that with the arrow - the original needle holes go elsewhere. Harold is now generally held to be the man b...[/quote]

Poor old Mr G is no more, so too late to put him straight but I just had a thought, perhaps that was the question that gave me the one point in history, that was required to gain my 11+. I do hope it's too late for a recount

Yes, like most people I suspect, I had known about the arrow explanation but where did you dig up about the "needle point" having been changed ?  It was not explained through my earphones when I last viewed the tapestry but as stated, it would depend on where your allegaince lies I guess.  

[Dick Smith]

Even more tediously pedantic answer, I'm afraid. Deformation professionel. The tapestry is a bit like the Irishman's knife, it's a fine knife, I've had it thirty years, it's had two new blades and three new handles.

Over the years there have been a number of attempts to mend and 'restore' the tapestry, and to repair damage caused by displaying it around the nave of the cathedral for about 800 years. It was also damaged at the time of the revolution (that's when the final scenes went missing, I believe). A local doctor had to protect it from a mob who were about to cut it up to wrap some stuff (forget what) in. When restorers have worked on it they have tried to 'put it right' according to their ideas - thus the arrow in the eye is made to go right into the eye instead of just above it, where the original holes go. The mix-up over the arrow is caused by the words haroldus rex interfectus est which wrap around the arrow-in-eye scene, which is immediately before a picture of a footsoldier, high status, being hacked down by a mounted knight. Some people hold that Harold is the one being hit in the eye because 'interfectus est' (is killed) is over this scene. They have also to factor in the written accounts of Harold's death, because we know he was cut down by 4 knights, so for years it was said that these scenes were separate snapshots of the same action. This doesn't hold water - nowhere else in the tapestry does the same character appear in two places in the same frame, and the two 'Harolds' are dressed and armed differently - surely if such a sophisticated artist wanted to show Harold twice he would look the same in each rendition? No contemporary account mentions the arrow, and that story seems to exist only as a false retelling of the tapestry story. So we have to conclude that the man with the arrow in the eye is one of Harold's housecarls in a late stage of the battle when we know the Normans were unleashing an arrow-storm on the bodyguard around the royal standard. One of Harold's brothers was killed by an arrow in the face, so it could be him, but that was earlier in the battle.

Still awake?

[Jirac18]

Thanks for the interesting history lesson chaps and chapesses, I wish I had paid more attention at school.

Back to the thread, down here in 49 (Maine et Loire) there are still many properties under       100 000 Euros. They are much harder to find however and give it another couple of years they will be scarce indeed.

It will be interesting to see how the levelling out and dip in places within the UK property market will affect the cost and availability of real bargains here in France.

[JohnM]

So... Dick... are you saying that the story about:-

Harold walking round his troops the night before to give a pep talk and boost moral; coming across swordsmen practising, and complementing them thus "with swordsmanship like that we shall surely win the battle"; then coming across lancers going through their paces and giving a similar speech "if all the lancers are as good as you then we have won already"; finally finding the archers, most of whom are good but one in particular is C**p, turning to him and saying "you need to be careful or you'll have somebody's eye out"

may be in doubt as well?????? I hope not!

 

 

[Dick Smith]

The trouble with teaching history is the deafening crash of illusions hitting the ground... (fnah fnah - is that the proper spelling, SB?)

And as for Mel Gibson...

[Jirac18]

[quote]The trouble with teaching history is the deafening crash of illusions hitting the ground... (fnah fnah - is that the proper spelling, SB?)And as for Mel Gibson...[/quote]

Dick, have you seen Gibson's The Passion? If yes, what did you think. Is it all in Aramic and Hebrew or just the part of JC himself?

[Dick Smith]

I haven't seen it yet - I want to get the DVD. I believe it is all in the language of the character, that is Aramaic for the Jews, Latin for the Romans. I base my prejudice on Braveheart and The Patriot.

[Coral]

There was a really good Sky Discovery or History channel program about the tapestry recently.  They also said that the arrow part had been changed and Harold had not been killed with an arrow in the eye.  Went into it in great detail.

Coral  - soon to be in Ariege

[Val_2]

Just as I thought then, there are still quite a lot of properties to buy out there under £100,000. The company in question that I had a look at is the one we all got hot under the collar about earlier in the year and the good and the bad about them if you remember. I just wonder if all the properties then that are over this price range are really inflated prices and that in true terms,they are not even worth £60K let alone over the £100K and it is just pure greed because they are one of the larger companies. I know there is nothing round here for less than that price because it is prime coastal region and this gave rise to a bit of controversy last night at council when the mayor announced his displeasure at the amount of holiday homes all around the area that are pushing the local young out and forcing classes to shut because there are no children coming in. In fact, everyone who voiced their opinions wanted the local communes to stop selling plots for holiday homes and  sell for permanent residence only and if anyone contested it,the price would be doubled for the land. No nationalities were blamed for this only the fact that young people born and bred and with local jobs have no chance now of buying a private house as local wages don't meet the bank loans needed and that the lotissiments springing up should be for their use only to keep the villages alive.