Strike warning

[Mistral]

I expect this is an unecessary warning, but I'll post it all the same.

Next Thursday (10th march) there is a call to a general strike in France. Naturally the teachers are going to be involved. On the educational side, the protest is against the projet de loi fillon (again) and budjet cuts (again) for more info here's the link to the main secondary union http://www.snes.edu/snesactu/article.php3?id_article=1336

I'm assuming that this will only be the state sector as usual, but I feel it could well be very strongly followed. Already I know there will be no cantine staff at my school.

[SaligoBay]

Thank you for that, Mistral.

Now, could you explain exactly what the loi Fillon is?   Please? 

Il s’agit notamment de la reconstitution de filières ségrégatives au collège, de l’étanchéité renforcée entre les différentes voies au lycée, de remises en cause du métier (remplacements, polyvalence,...). Quant au financement, le chiffrage réalisé par le parlement ne changera rien au fait qu’il sera assuré par des redéploiements (suppression d’enseignements et de dédoublements, récupération des moyens TPE et IDD, remise en cause des moyens ZEP, etc...). Tout cela dans un contexte budgétaire de suppressions de postes par dizaines de milliers.

That's from the link you posted.  The main objection seems to be the re-introduction of some sort of streaming, which the lycéens have been manifesting against, they say they want all schools to remain equal, and they don't want to find themselves in a ranked system.

Then there's the usual story of cutting funding in all sorts of areas of the education system, including staff.

 

[Mistral]

Now, could you explain exactly what the loi Fillon is? 

If only I knew I read the raport Thelot with interest, but it seemed that the actual projet de loi has a lot of wishful thinking and vagaries. I've downloaded it and I'll read it properly before Thursday.

As far as I have seen, the main sticking points seem to be the fact that pupils can choose which subjects they take in the continuous assessment in the brevet, continuous assessment for the bac and not just a single exam, allowing pupils in great difficulty to follow a modified programme. The one that the teachers won't officially strike about, but has caused a lot of noise in staff rooms is asking secondary teachers to replace missing colleagues when they are absent for short periods (at the moment, teachers are replaced for absences of more than 2 weeks, and by "official" replacements not other members of staff in the same school)

As far as I can understand, the lycéens have been complaining about having all their grades count for the bac and not just the exam. The argument is that too much depends on the system of grading in each school. And the threat that some sections are going to be grouped together, so that instead of having, say, 10 pupils doing an option in three lycées, just one lycée will have the class and they will all have to travel to it. This is already happening. Our local lycée no longer has a LV3 possibility which means that pupils have to try and get into the lycée in the neighbouring town on derogation. Unfortunately that lycée already has too many pupils so all of last year's derogations were refused. So I have pupils who want to study languages in SES at the moment

here's a link to the goverment's site on the projet de loi http://www.loi.ecole.gouv.fr/

[Cjb]

Will there be no external marking? Surely at least samples will be sent off to ensure that grading is consistent throughout all schools.

Will every piece of work count!?

I thought that the proposal was to go over to a part continuous assessment/part final exam based system, similar to the way GCSE has been taught for years.

[0BRIAN WOODHEADI,m here in franceddMMyyyy0Falseen-USI,m here in franceTrue]

And they need 12 weeks holiday a year to do or not do it in,as the case maybe

[0BRIAN WOODHEADI,m here in franceddMMyyyy0Falseen-USI,m here in franceTrue]

Yes we did know and now we have the little darlings to ourselves all day thursday,teachers, dont you love `em.

[Cjb]

Change the record!! If you've nothing to add to this thread, then add nothing!! I've told you already, I've got 15 weeks of holiday a year, which includes the whole of July and August!!

You've chosen your job and lifestyle and I've chosen mine. It took 5 years of undergraduate and post graduate education to get where I am today, so nobody handed it to me on a plate. Perhaps if you'd worked a little harder at school you might have the same choices, but the again...that wasn't your fault, was it?

There are thousands of mature students who go back to education at a later stage in life, and some of them end up having successful teaching careers. Many of these students are single mothers and don't come from privileged backgrounds;they've simply got to a stage in their life where they've been able to see the merits of education and rather than blaming previous teachers, their parents, society, the government etc.... they've got on and done something about it.

Do you think that it's important for your children to stay on in education after reaching the school-leaving age?

[0BRIAN WOODHEADI,m here in franceddMMyyyy0Falseen-USI,m here in franceTrue]

Cjd,I did have something to say that is why I posted,it affects me directly,my thursday is now taken up looking after my kids when I could be doing something really boring and mundane.Unlike you I do not need to work for to earn a crust because WE worked HARD for our money and are not the result of an inbred system of self procreation.

You say nobody handed it to you on a plate,who paid for your time at school re uni and was this in the UK.

As for people going back to learn, that is in my opinion a result of a misguided sense of self worth and that one needed an education to be something worth while.

For my kids I hope that they do not want to spend the best years of their lives being preached at by some person who could not make it in the real world so therefore had to teach what they knew(if anything in the first place).The best I could hope for would be that they become tradesmen or or is that tradespersons after all they do not need to spend five years learning in an .....and will earn more than a grad to boot.Did you hear the other day on radio 4 an interview with a worker in a factory talking about is new boss a grad 30years old never had a job before because he had be to uni all that time the worker said that he(the grad)did not know how to talk to and relate to the workers and that they all resented him.

[Cjb]

"an inbred system of self procreation."

"You say nobody handed it to you on a plate,who paid for your time at school re uni and was this in the UK."

1. I've no idea what an inbred system of self procreation is. Please enlighten me.

2. Should we close down all universities then? It's true that we all need plumbers, but I'd prefer a graduate to be operating on me, designing my car, teaching my child, managing my bank account, defending my rights in a court of law, creating life-saving medicines etc......

This isn't a snipe at plumbers, they do an important job, it's simply an example to illustrate the short-sightedness of Outcast's comments!!

 

Am I to assume that the french tax payer is having to fork out for the education of your children??

[Russethouse]

>>Did you hear the other day on radio 4 an interview with a worker in a factory talking about is new boss a grad 30years old never had a job before because he had be to uni all that time the worker said that he(the grad)did not know how to talk to and relate to the workers and that they all resented him.<<<

No doubt cjb was at work !

[Mistral]

I'm not sure all the modalities have been worked out yet. But for example I can tell you what happens in the brevet which although it is a is a lot less important exam, has been using a continuous assessment system for years.  In the brevet, you get the C/A grade by calculating the moyenne annuelle. That is you add the moyennes for each term and then divide the result by three. The term moyennes are calculated by each teacher using his or her own system and with the weighting he chooses (example: I use coéf 2 for writen work and coéf 1 for oral, some colleagues don't count oral work at all and some use equal weighting) So it's up to the teacher to decide what counts. We have no external marking. I think this is back to the equality thing. All teachers are supposed to be equally trained to the same level of competance so they will all obviously grade the same way.

As far as I know, the idea is to include C/A in the total grade, not replace the final exam, but this seems to be enough to get the lyéens out on the streets.  

[Cjb]

Many thanks, Mistral. Initially I wanted to teach in the French system, despite my inlaws (french) telling me that it would be a far better career move to teach in an International School. The rectorat refused to accept my PGCE (contrary to EU anti-discrimination laws) and informed that I could work as a remplacent, but that I'd have to pass the CAPES and take part of the formation in order to obtain a CDI.

What was the situation with you? Had you already been teaching in the UK?

I assume you've gone through and passed the CAPES. Did they recognise your years of teaching in the UK once you'd passed the CAPES? Did you have to retrain?

I've heard rumours of things changing, with regards to UK qualified teachers teaching in the French system, but up until this point in time, I've seen nothing in writing.

How do you feel the two systems compare? Obviously there's good and bad in both.

We intend to start our daughter off in the french system and then move her across to the international system at around 8/9 years old.

[Cjb]

>>Did you hear the other day on radio 4 an interview with a worker in a factory talking about is new boss a grad 30years old never had a job before because he had be to uni all that time the worker said that he(the grad)did not know how to talk to and relate to the workers and that they all resented him.<<<

No doubt cjb was at work !

Exactly! I was at work from 8am till 6pm, before coming home to look after my daughter, prepare the following days lessons and finally get some sleep around midnight! Easy life!!

I'm 30 years old myself. I've been working for the last 7 years. Have managed to get myself a good job. I get on well with my colleagues, students and the parents.

I can only think of one person who posts on this site who appears to have difficulty relating to others and is widely resented, and he's certainly not a teacher, and such inadequacies were not brought about by him being over-educated!!

[0BRIAN WOODHEADI,m here in franceddMMyyyy0Falseen-USI,m here in franceTrue]

Cjd,by the time I was 30 I had spent 15 years working not 7,once again you ignore what you want to and choose to answer none existent questions,which I will agree is your way of doing things when you do not like being ask something to which you know will show that once again I speak of what is right.

Which was it that kept you up till midnight,your sprog or the fact that you can not do your job in the allotted time,if it was the little one well are`nt you the only one who ever had a sprog.

As for relating to others,I married an english lady and we came to france together and none of us married in to a rich french family like you have.

Which country paid for your education?ps you say you have a good job what does it pay?as much as a plumber or a sparks or even a bricky that is not after 5 years at uni.Even lowly bred outcast was on more than a teacher,and said teacher spent how many years at never never land.

 

 

[Cjb]

"Am I to assume that the french tax payer is having to fork out for the education of your children??"

Ignoring questions???

Who said that I married into a rich family??

The tax payer and my parents paid for my years at university. My late father came from a council estate in Poplar, East London (anyone who knows Poplar will know it's hardly Hampstead). He left school at 17 (stepdad made redundant) and then worked during the day as an office boy for a firm of solicitors and studied in the evenings. At the age of 30 he qualified as a solicitor. No silver spoon. Blood, sweat and tears. The difference was that he understood the value of education and was determined that his children wouldn't miss out. I received no grant at all during my years of study; the state merely paid my tuition costs. At the time tuition costs were free regardless of whether your parents were multi-millionaires or unemployed.

Having to work in the evening has nothing to do with not completing my job in the allotted time and everything to do with taking pride in the job I do and trying to ensure that the children I teach get the very best start in life. How would you suggest that I prepare resources and teach at the same time?

If you simply want to view jobs in terms of how much one earns, that's your decision. I can put my hand on my heart and say that I look forward to every day at work. How many people can do that? I've never gone on strike and don't intend to do so. My salary is none of your business. The fact that I teach in one of the best International Schools in Europe should make it quite clear that I'm not badly paid. Should I wish to up my salary I can always give private tuition at €30-40 an hour or run an after-school club which pays as much as €1200 for 15 hours work.

Teaching is far from being an easy job and it's made all the more difficult by having to teach children whose parents share your type of views.

Now, if you've got anything to add about the proposed changes to the french BAC please enlighten us, after all, that was the purpose of this thread!!

As far as I am concerned, you represent the perfect example of why education is important! Perhaps I'll print off one of your posts and get my 10 year olds to correct the grammar and spelling.

[0BRIAN WOODHEADI,m here in franceddMMyyyy0Falseen-USI,m here in franceTrue]

Cjd, please pass me a handkerchief,re-read one of your posting and you will see why I posted about your in- laws.Sorry about your up bringing,really.The law not me says that my kids have to go to school (when they could be cleaning chimneys

Does one take it that it was the UK tax payer that paid for your tuition then,what I find offensive is that the UK tax payer paid for your sort and then up and leave the country,where is the benefit to the tax payer in that

30euro,s is what £20 an hour I can make that and I did not need wet nursing for 5 years

Strike warning was the postings title not the BAC,maybe you need more sleep.

My kids would never be in a school like yours because it is a waste of money,long term they will not have the social problems akin to posh kids.

Please do show any of my postings to the kids you teach and then remind them that the most successful entrepreneurs never went to uni.

[Cjb]

As you keep reminding everyone, you're here in France. Whether you like it or not, here in France, qualifications really do matter!!

[JohnM]

I'm not sure if this fits in totally with the thread because I've been skipping over Outcast's postings.

But, as somebody else who didn't go to Uni, I agree that qualifications do matter. I have worked alongside graduates, held my own with them, even taught some of them how to the job, but because I don't have a degree it has held me back. (I daresay I ought to go out and get one, but I started the OU once and remember the day I gave it up, the TV prog had been really interesting all about carbon dating and the the maths required, I sat thinking, maybe this maths lark does have a use, then the lecturer said, "that's it, we've done what the archeologists want and got the answer as accurate as they need.... but I'm a mathematician so I want it more accurate" I shouted at the screen "Bob, don't go on, the result is meaningless because of the accuracy of the data" but he ignored me and I gave up the course, I wanted maths as a tool to help me, he wanted me to have it as a hobby ).

 

[Mistral]

 cjb, I wasn't in the same situation as you, I moved out to france straight from university. I started as a replacemant teacher (back in the days when they were MA) to  decide if it was a job I wanted to do and then I took the CAPES.

Quite honestly I can't see the ed nat system recognising the UK teaching qualifications very soon because of the status problem. French teachers are civil servants, the exam is no way a proof of your teaching ability, it just measures your level in your subject. Not only does France refuse to accept teaching qualifications from other EU states, but French teachers with the CAPES/Agreg who leave the French system to work in another country have to retake when they come back.

As a teacher, the big difference I see between the two systems is that UK teachers are actually trained to teach whereas French teachers have to prove they have a certain level in the subject and then it is assumed they can teach it. This might explain why so many French teachers think that the best way to get the message across is to shout  Even the year as a stagiaire at the IUFM after passing the CAPES thérorique, all the lessons were on university level English. Nothing on classroom techniques, structuring a lesson..... Most people I know just teach in the way they were taught.

[chicfille]

[quote]Many thanks, Mistral. Initially I wanted to teach in the French system, despite my inlaws (french) telling me that it would be a far better career move to teach in an International School. The rectora...[/quote]

Cjb, can you tell me in what capacity you teach, if you don't mind me asking?

I ask because I am considering changing career to become a teacher, but I don't know how to go about it. I have a degree in French and a PG Dip in translation, but no teaching qualification and no teaching experience!

Maybe I'd be better of waiting until (if!) we go back to the UK and train there as I have no desire to take the CAPES!

[0BRIAN WOODHEADI,m here in franceddMMyyyy0Falseen-USI,m here in franceTrue]

Jonh M,thanks for reinforcing what I posted,even if you did not read my postings,none so blind that will not see,none so deaf as them who will not hear.What were you holding that was your own,please do post.

Tell me this why should the UK tax payer paid for someone to go on to "higher education"when it does not benefit the UK.

Higher education is a choose nobody is forced to do it,if I choose to order something in a restaurant I will have to pay for what I had,not so the would be grads who up and leave the UK after getting something for next to nothing,then start teaching in france.

 

[Cjb]

Thanks, Mistral for your response. It's really interesting to hear this from someone currently working within the french system.

Chicfille - If you're returning to the UK, it may be an idea to start a PGCE there. In the meantime you could take a TEFL (it's possible to do this in Paris) and teach english as a foreign language; this would stand you in good stead when applying for a PGCE place. I'm currently teaching in an International School. I teach the last year of primary school - Year 6.

Outcast - In my eyes a waste of taxpayers money is when the education system turns out someone like yourself. You say that you left school at 15. That's 10 years of tax payers money down the drain!! As the UK is part of the EU, the fact that I've taught for 6 years in the UK and 1 year in France is an irrelevance. I'm an EU citizen, and as such am free to move around the EU!!

On the subject of taxes, am I right in thinking that you used to work on the boats? Tax-Free?? The brits that work on the boats down here don't do the tax thing. I'm paying my taxes so that their children can go to school here!! I do so hope that within your simple existence that you claim to lead in France, you're making your contributions!! If not you could be seen to be sponging off the state!!

 

[Izz.]

cjb, I feel so sad reading your replies to outcast, I think you are in need of a councilor or psy. but your posts are not helpful and do not contribute intelligently to the forum. Why this is allowed by the editors, I wonder. Wether outcast is well educated or not is not the question but what you do with your intelligence does not convince me that... I am considerate as an educated grown up person, a qualified teacher with a P.G.C.E, TEFL, and triligal but agree with outcast.

[Cjb]

"cjb, I feel so sad reading your replies to outcast, I think you are in need of a councilor or psy. but your posts are not helpful and do not contribute intelligently to the forum. Why this is allowed by the editors, I wonder. Wether outcast is well educated or not is not the question but what you do with your intelligence does not convince me that... I am considerate as an educated grown up person, a qualified teacher with a P.G.C.E, TEFL, and triligal but agree with outcast."

Call me suspicious, but I'm not entirely sure that you're not just another of Outcast's creations. "Triligal", "wether" "councilor" and "I agree with outcast". If you really are completely unassociated with Outcast, perhaps you could tell us a little more about what your P.G.C.E. and T.E.F.L. training involved??

Take a look through Outcast's posts on this site and you'll see the full extent of his intelligent contributions!! 

 

 

[Izz.]

I wouldn't call you suspicious, paranoid perhaps, but I am my own entity! People are allowed to share opinions. The fact that they do not coincide with your own (or your alternate identities), does not make them any the less valid.

As for my qualifications, show me yours and I'll show you mine

Really, don't you think more attention should be paid to the content of contributions to the forum, than to niggling about little errors. Following your advice, I checked out some of the contributions you mentioned and found them relevant and humorous, what's the problem with that?

C.J., not anything to do with Reggie Perrin by any chance?