Prospects for school leavers?

[Will]

[quote user="jonesenfrance"]

By the time my children finish their education in France they won't be children and will, hopefully, be ready and willing to make their own way in the world.  If that means they move back to the UK I don't see that it means that I have to go too.

[/quote]

I'm all for people making their own way, but for 17-21-year-olds starting out in work, which they may or may not stand a better chance of getting in England, where are they going to live, and how will they pay the rent? I know how hard it is for ours back home, and they have the benefit of being a bit older, in comparatively well-paid jobs, and they still need help from their parents. And that is help that parents who have sunk all their resources into living in France, as I know many have, will not be able to give.

It's a big problem in both countries, and probably everywhere. The problems look somewhat different, but the effect seems much the same.

[SaligoBay]

[quote user="jonesenfrance"]

At the age of 21 I left the UK and moved to the Middle East. My parents didn't come too? Why would they? I was an adult and didn't need my parents to babysit me.

By the time my children finish their education in France they won't be children and will, hopefully, be ready and willing to make their own way in the world.  If that means they move back to the UK I don't see that it means that I have to go too.

[/quote]

Jones, if they go on to tertiary education in France, they certainly won't be entering the job market at 21!!  

I still don't know why, but French youngsters really don't seem to finish their first degrees till they're at least 24.  Anyone who does it before that is a matter for media attention!   So you may have them on your hands for longer than you think...... [;)]  

[Russethouse]

Jonesenfrance - So many people move to France so they can enjoy a 'happy family life' etc I really can't see why anyone thinks it just stops at 17 - 18. Just because they are old enough to look after themselves doesn't stop the pleasure of family life, its just a different dimension.

I didn't think my daughter would  live at home after Uni, but she came back and although she has got a good job, (in the sense that its what she wants to do and she enjoys it and its in the sphere of her degree) she likes living here and we like having her.

My son, after a 2 year gap went back to college, with our support. Good job we didn't move to France in the interim.

Of course they will leave one day, but young adult children sometimes appreciate having Mum & Dad at hand too. 

 

[KathyC]

In UK terms at least, it seems a mistake to lump 17/18 year olds in with those of 21+. They may all be "young people" but that doesn't mean that the same expectations and support should apply.

[Dotty0]

[quote user="Russethouse"]

Jonesenfrance - So many people move to France so they can enjoy a 'happy family life' etc I really can't see why anyone thinks it just stops at 17 - 18. Just because they are old enough to look after themselves doesn't stop the pleasure of family life, its just a different dimension.

I didn't think my daughter would  live at home after Uni, but she came back and although she has got a good job, (in the sense that its what she wants to do and she enjoys it and its in the sphere of her degree) she likes living here and we like having her.

My son, after a 2 year gap went back to college, with our support. Good job we didn't move to France in the interim.

Of course they will leave one day, but young adult children sometimes appreciate having Mum & Dad at hand too. 

 

[/quote]

That's really nice.  You have clearly done a very good job at parenting. I know its a bit too soon but my eldest (13) says she wants to still be living at home in her mid twenties. We often tease her about our renovation project not being finished until she has left home, but she says why would she want to pay for somewhere else to live when she has a perfectly good home here.

I just hope she feels the same way in 5 years time. 

Dotty

[Russethouse]

Thanks Dotty -

Kathy - you are right, the expectations and support are different as they get older and naturally you expect them to cope with more and more.. 

Make no mistake, they are not molycoddled here, they fend for themselves food wise, I buy the food, they cook it, they do their own washing (son is a bit vague about things that might run ) etc. In fact they have both been able to fend for themselves from a young age.

[KathyC]

Lots of young people choose to live at home into their mid  twenties, (and sometimes beyond) and some have no choice. If parents don't charge them for their keep, do everything for them and allow the sort of liberties that normally need your own place, then it's hardly surprising. That parents see their adult children wanting to do this as a sign of affection and something to be encouraged, is beyond me. It's easy to forget that encouraging independence is one of the main goals of parenting; inappropriate dependence in people's twenties is as worrying as a twelve year old having his food cut up.

This comment is not aimed at anyone specifically, although it's a subject that's hard to discuss without people taking it personally.

[Russethouse]

I have often argued this point with my oldest friend who never charged her daughters rent at all - ours have to contribute, not a commercial rent maybe, but a worthwhile amount. And believe me as far as I am concerned the rent comes first, there is no saying, 'I can't pay or will next month do' - in fact my daughters rent is paid by standing order.

One reason, although not the only one is that our judgment is that we would like both our children to get on the housing ladder,(and they would too) that is very expensive here, and if, rather than give rent to a commercial landlord we can help them in this way, all well and and good. In any case a car would help both their jobs and they will need to save for that.

We certainly have not got thousands to say 'here is a deposit dear'.and we believe in treating them the same as much as possible (that is how my sister and I were treated by my parents and it worked for us)

My point really was that many people move thinking it will improve their family life, see more of their children etc, but  as far as I am concerned family life does not suddenly stop being desirable because the children are older.

My daughter had a pretty ropey start to her first year at Uni, through no fault of her own her request for accommodation was muddled and she spent all of Freshers week, when she should have been getting to know other students having fun etc, in a 4 bed house on campus, on her own - I wasn't happy about it, but at least if push had come to shove we could have visited.(and she knew we would if she wanted us to) Luckily she is made of stern stuff and got through it, the other house mates were all older, one doing a masters degree. In actual fact she remains quite close to those girls even now and goes of for weekends with them. In her final year her 'house' was made up of seven, 4 Chinese girls who mainly socialized among themselves and two other girls who were not really living there at all, but off campus with their boyfriends. She came home more that year.. 

Apart from that, there is a cost factor - many people say they are willing to earn less to enjoy the 'better life style'.UK  Uni fees come out of taxed income, I worked out that with transport costs, this & that, we actually had to earn £14,000 - £15,000 to get her through Uni, and that included petrol for a 2 hour journey each way, the odd train fare, not flights or ferry fares.(and she is still paying of her student loan). I guess other EU students pay the same?

What about your children Kathy? Are they older?

[KathyC]

Young people in education come into a different situation, whether in England or France. Also twentysomethings are obviously going to look to their parents for help to get over a difficult patch; relationships fall apart, leases expire and people are made redundant. The ability to retreat to the family nest occasionally is a useful safety net and a springboard for the next try at full independence.

We have only had foster children so our situation has been rather different. Had we had our own, we always planned to do what a friend of ours had done previously. This was to charge the children the going rate for lodgings, but to save any excess over the actual costs of food etc., without letting the kids know this. This meant that that they learnt to budget realistically, she wasn't subsidising their social lives and when they left a couple of years later she was able to give them her savings as a lump sum ,which went a long way towards a deposit on a flat.

By contrast, my ex brother in law lived at home until his mid twenties ( he may still do so for all I know!). He had a good job in IT earning over £30,000 and paid his mother only £20 per week. ( all by current money values )  She always said what a lovely, generous boy he was as he bought her great presents at Christmas and birthdays. As, by my reckoning, he had over £400 per week "pocket money" he could well afford to do so! Perhaps an extreme example, but not that unusual in principle.