Yank going to France for College

[Rich]

Alright so from the subject title you know that I'm an American. I'm a 17 year old male living in San Francisco, CA. I have one more year left in high school and then I'm off to college. I'm strongly considering attending the American Unversity of Paris. They teach classes in English, but you get to live in Paris, France. Now the only problem is well I would need a lot of financial aid if went there. Do any of you know of any organisations/individuals/scholarships that would possibly benefit me in this endeavour? Also does anybody know of any books that detail the differences between life in France and the US? Preferably written by a younger author, but anything that you think would benefit me. Alright thanks.

[Tresco]

Hi Rich.

I know nothing about financial Aid for American Students in France, but there are quite a few websites that provide information about the 'American experience' of Paris/France.

There are a few American posters here, but not many. Have a look at these perhaps until someone who knows comes along with first hand advice.[:D]

http://www.understandfrance.org/Sommaire.html

http://www.insiderparisguides.com/

You have probably already looked at  the American University in Paris site, which includes a section on financial aid.

http://www.aup.fr/main/student_life/orientation/when_where.htm

 

 

[Lori]

Rich - I'm glad you posted here as you might find a great deal more info. than the forum you previously posted on.

I wish I had more info. for you, but my daughter is only in Jr. High

(U.S. type), so I have not encountered the situation yet.  I

believe the AUP is a private univeristy in U.S. standards, so it will

not offer you the price of standard French Universities.  Check

out the Sorgonne's website, just for comparison info.

Good luck to you.

[Rich]

Alright thanks guys. I'll check out all this stuff.

[Tresco]

Rich, bear in mind that the American posters here - who might be able to advise you - may not look at the forum every day.

Good luck

[Lori]

I meant to say Sorbonne   .... good heavens !

[PossumGirl]

Hi Rich.

I would try contacting the French-American Chamber of Commerce (I'm sure they have a branch in SF, I know they have one in L.A.) and asking if they have any suggestions.

Why not contact the American University itself and ask them if they know of any scholarships, etc.?

There's a great book called CULTURAL MISUNDERSTNDINGS by Raymonde Carroll that I highly recommend.  It should be available on Amazon.  It was written a few years ago, but I don't think the things it talks about have changed greatly.

Good luck!

PG

[Rich]

Thanks for all the advice and info everybody. I will definitely check that book out Possumgirl.

[rocky]

Try the American Institute for Foreign Study.  Not sure if they work with the American University in Paris, but they offer great programs and scholarship opportunities (or at least they did 13 years ago when I studied in France with them!).  Good luck!

[Sprogster]

Another option might be to go to an American College that has a student exchang programme with European Universities. This enables you to spend a year in Europe and very often there are scholarship opportunities attached.

 

[Tresco]

What Rich posted is interesting;

All the hopeful students I have ever known (not young Americans, but bear with me) who needed financial aid had either a very exceptional teacher or parents backing them up, and helping them access aid, or they were mature students who knew how to 'play the game'.

If Rich falls somehow in between these two categories it isn't going to be easy for him, being 17. He's landed here, a site full of mainly British 'Expats', and with the best will etc. if we are not Americans with children that age, there isn't a lot many of us can do.

Does anyone know any Americans with 'children' this age who might be able to point him in the right direction?

Just a thought.

 

[ninahookins]

I live near Angouleme in the Charente, there is a programe for American students here, it is run by a french lady and her American husband. It is under europe college, if you want more details let me know

Nina

[HLG]

Hi Rich,

I happen to know AUP quite well (from inside, if you will.)

As you say, AUP isn't a French university, basically it's an American College that happens to be in Paris. Most students are international (Americans, Europeans. Middle Eastern.) They do have financial aid. The scholarships and loans you could get for an American university in the US are all okay to use for AUP.

Are we wrong to assume you speak French? (ie., have taken some French in High school).

A solution to make your AUP degree cheaper - but only works if you are in the "AP French" course: choose a "BTS" program that can be transferred to AUP. They're like BS programs in the US but in a French high school setting (BTS are recognized as college-level, it's just the setting = regular classes, schedule, classrooms, etc. that are 'high school') The advantage: it's FREE. And if you're lucky, you can even get spartan accomodations on-site, for a very very modest fee.  You take your classes for whatever BTS program, then after one or two years, you transfer to AUP . :-)

I should be able to help you with the application process - essentially, you can apply to one program per school, 4 programs per region. Deadlines are in the Spring before you plan to enroll (ie., you'd still have over a year to think this over.)

Some info here: http://www.educnet.education.fr/ecogest/enseignements/techno/bts/BTS.htm

 

STUFF TO READ ABOUT FRANCE AND PARIS

Non-fiction

* Must-read: 60 Million Frenchmen can't be wrong, by Nadeau and Barlow. Funny, in-depth description by two journalists/writers who spent 2 years there. Most up-to-date, down-to-earth book out there.

*Must-read (2): Postcards from France, by  McNeill Libby. Truest for teenage daily life experiences, as seen from an adventurous 17 year old who spent a year in France as an exchange student.

* Almost French, by Turnbull. An Australian 20-something falls in love with a Frenchman. Culture shock in an easy-to-read memoir.

* Paris: the collected traveller, edited by Barrie Kerper. Best anthology of short essays by "Anglophones" in Paris. Contains lots of practical information, too.

* French Toast, by Rocherfort-Welty. An American who's married into the Parisian upper-crust tells it all: family, food, schools, money, men/women... From the person who maintains this site: http://www.understandfrance.org/Sommaire.html   and also writes columns on www.paris.org (le kiosque).

 

... More to come if you wish! (books, websites, blogs...)

;-)

 

 

[HLG]

Off-topic, but has anyone read Sadler's "Englishman in Paris"? Thought it was hilarious. especially the stinky cheese episode. ;-)

[Rich]

Well actually I don't speak French yet, I am learning it on my own. My high school only offers Spanish, Italian, and American Sign Language. I took three years of Spanish and did very well. However, I do plan to become very good in French, probably better than I am in Spanish. I am currently using Rocket French as well as "Princeton Review's How to Crack the SAT II French Test" to learn French. I will probably take a French class next year at my local community college. The CC is right across the street from my high school, so the CC lets Seniors from my school take classes there to get college credits. If I feel confident enough, then yes I will take the French AP test next May.

Is this BTS program taught in French? Because if it is I doubt I will be able to do well. My knowledge of English is much stronger than my knowledge of any other language. That's why I want to go to AUP, its in France, but taught in English, and has International Relations as one of its primary majors. I saw on the AUP website that they offer academic scholarships.  I have an unweighted GPA of 4.00, am ranked #1 in my class of 178, will have taken 8-9 AP classes by the time I graduate, and got a 2120(1440) on the SAT I the first time I took it (800 on the math). I'm taking it again, and I know I can improve my critical reading and writing after taking AP English Language/Composition. I've talked to be AUP counselor and she said they were looking for at least at 3.3 and 1300 on the old SAT I. So what type of scholarship can I get with my grades? I also have played basketball all four years of high school, and will be captain on varsity next year. I am the founder/president of my school's European-American Club, in NHS, CSF, and the Chess Club. Outside of school I am a member of the Civil Air Patrol and have completed over 100 community service hours. And as I mentioned earlier, I'm learning French on my own. I know my Extra-Curriculars aren't great, but I'm not a couch potato either. So yea I'm apply for a scholarship from my local Rotary Int. National Club, and various others, but being white and having two self-employed parents isn't going to make it easy for me to get a decent scholarship.

Thanks for the book choices btw I was considering that 60 million Frenchmen can't be wrong, now I know for sure to buy it. Thanks again HLG and everybody else for all their input.   

[HLG]

Hi Rich,

You sound like a terrific student and any college should be proud to admit you! Just MHO.

If you did well in Spanish, you should do well with French. French is actually easier to learn than Spanish (despite the false reputation in American high schools: Spanish has twice as many verb tenses that you need to know + more vocab with a different root.) Doesn't mean it's a cinch but it should not be as hard as for some, esp. seeing your current record.

BTW, just so you know: French schools don't care a fig about your extracurriculars. All that matters is the academic stuff: grades, classes taken, test scores, ability to write essays. Class rank has not been factored in since 1968 (major student protests that heralded France's entrance into the modern world incidentally abolished class rankings and uniforms.)

If you're allowed to take CC classes, see whether you can do their 'Second Year French'. It's the basic minimum before going to France - but it also means you should cover the equivalent of Basic French by yourself (getting to the 500-600 range in the SAT-II test).  Truthfully, if you want to make your life in France easier , I'd say take the most advanced classes available, ie., don't be content with "Second-Year French" if it is at all a possibility. Most universities would require that you pass two 300-level classes (like History, Composition, or Intro to Lit) before you go abroad; it's a good rule of thumb. But I don't know whether your CC would offer these classes and whether you'd be ready to take them. Having Spanish and AP English definitively helps though. 

In any case, AUP offers French classes; becoming fluent is not an option, it's a requirement. ;-)

In daily life, as long as you have basic French, you can get along. But as most expats here will tell you, the more you know, the easier the life. And the hardest part isn't the language as much as the culture, all the little "insivible" things - but if you read 60Million Frenchmen, you should have an advantage already. :-)

Based on what I know, I'd think you're a shoe-in for AUP and they should give you one of these $3,500 academic scholarships. However the students from AUP I knew were all from families that could afford the tuition fees... so, can't help on that account. But based on their admits, you'd stand a good chance for the academic scholarship. AUP does offer financial aid and loans so you should be okay on that front, but it will be significantly more expensive than a Cal State school. ;-) Roughly, you'd have to contribute about half of tuition, plus room/board (housing is hard to come by/expensive in Paris, esp. for a student).

Re: Housing: AUP should be able to help with that. However for a cheaper alternative you could try and look into the Cite Universitaire Internationale. See whether you'd qualify, being a poor youth all on your own in Paris. :-) There's an American pavillion and it's probably the nicest residence complex for students in France - nice lawns, actual upkeep of the buildings, no cockroaches :->, etc. (Most "cites U" are dreadful. You get a single room with a sink, a desk, a bed, etc., but no phone line and no cooking facilities. They're rented out for $100 a month to the poorest students and thus poorly/not maintained.)

Yes the BTS program is in French. There is another program (mostly math/economics focused) that is TUITION-FREE but it's harder and requires students to really, really love math because they combine high-level math with economics from 8 am to 5pm (plus other classes), and then you've got homework till the wee hours. On the other hand, if you survive the 2 years, you're set for a good choice of majors and a garanteed Master's or MBA.

Word of caution: As an American, you shouldn't look into French "universites", because they're underfunded and overcrowded. All French students who can, attend other colleges (like the BTS, the CPGE or 'classes prepa', the IUT, various 'ecoles'). They're all free, more or less, so cost isn't an issue should you go the "French school" route. (By free, I mean that tuition is about $200 a year. Meals are discounted to about $2.50 a meal + personal cooking and outings, budget about $75-80 a week to be safe - you can go by with far less of course. Housing is expensive though, probably $700 a month for something decent in Paris, and about half that in other cities.)

A program you may want to consider is the Sciences Po program. Sciences Po (real name is something like Institut d'Etudes Politiques) is considered like the "Harvard of France" and is trying to be the "Harvard of Europe". While their entrance requirements are stringent, they are relaxed a bit for non-French people who've shown they have great potential. I can look into the "premier cycle" or the undergrad cycle, the  first 3 years. (BA in France is 3 years, like in England, because of the "BAC", which is like A'Levels or a series of 5-7 AP exams.) The curriculum is rigorous. You can start learning other foreign languages and you'll be expected to keep up your Spanish. Of course, if you don't deliver, you are out by the end of the first year, but then it's still time for you to fall back on something else. Tuition is $5,000 a year. Of interest to a future International relations major: They've got an agreement with Columbia's SIPA; after your 3 years of study at Sciences Po, you can be enrolled both at Columbia and Sciences Po Paris and you get a double Master's degree (from both schools.)

http://www.sciences-po.fr/english/index.html

http://www.sciences-po.fr/daie/stage_integration/guide_2005/index.htm

I still think AUP would be a great choice for you, but I'm also mentioning Sciences Po so that you can apply to several colleges in France and then choose the one you like best. :-)

As a rule of thumb, to be competitive in a French school (or an American school in France), you should have:

AP-level:  History (European and/or World); Political Science or Economics; English. [For Sciences-Po, all four]

+ Preferably: Humanities/Philosophy/Great books, Geography and/or Sociology, Statistics and/or Calculus, a foreign language (all preferably Honors level although AP doens't hurt.)

+ as much French as you can.

 

Hope this helps and good luck! (Don't hesitate to PM me. I seriously know pretty much anything you might want to know about French schools.)

[Rich]

[quote user="HLG"]I still think AUP would be a great choice for you, but I'm also mentioning Sciences Po so that you can apply to several colleges in France and then choose the one you like best. :-)

As a rule of thumb, to be competitive in a French school (or an American school in France), you should have:

AP-level:  History (European and/or World); Political Science or Economics; English. [For Sciences-Po, all four]

+ Preferably: Humanities/Philosophy/Great books, Geography and/or Sociology, Statistics and/or Calculus, a foreign language (all preferably Honors level although AP doens't hurt.)

+ as much French as you can.

 

Hope this helps and good luck! (Don't hesitate to PM me. I seriously know pretty much anything you might want to know about French schools.)

[/quote]

So far I have only taken one AP exam (World History-5), and I am about to take AP European History, English Lang/Comp, and Environmental Science in three weeks. Then senior year I'm taking AP English Lit/Comp, US History, US Gov't, Calculus AB (maybe BC), and maybe French.

Also, the AUP scholarships say that you need to score like 14 on the French BAC. What is this test and how hard is it to get an 14? Was this the scholarship you were talking about or something else? TY once again HLG. BTW this is probably a really stupid question but how do you pm people on this forum? I go to my private messages, but I don't see a place to write any. Thanks again. 

[HLG]

1) at the bottom of the screen with my message, there ought to be something like an oblong capsule with "pm" in it.

2)

The "14" thing doesn't apply to you. It's for students who've been in the French system. Either you take the SAT or you take the BAC (although they're very different. The BAC is like the AP exams. The BAC is the reason why French students only have 3 years of undergraduate studies, rather than 4 like in the US. Same thing in England with A Levels, in Germany with Abitur, etc.) So you'll be judged on the SAT scale and you've already topped their requirement. :-)

FYI:

The BAC is the series of exams French students take at the end of their last two years of secondary school. Only 40 to 50% of an age group makes it to that point. (There's another program for the other 60-50% students, with about 20% getting to a BAC PRO, essentially an AS degree in the US. A total of 63% of 17 to 21 year olds obtain a BAC of one form or another.) The Bac is both a series of exams and a degree. They're very much like AP exams. Everybody has French Literature and Composition, one foreign language, and philosophy. Then depending on your major (filière), you can take a combination of exams  pertaining to a specific major (the majors are: S=Science, L=Humanities, ES=Social Sciences, STG=Applied Social Sciences/technology, STI= Applied Hard Sciences/technology, SMS=Applied/Paramedical/Technology. For example, a student in ES would have exams in Geography/Geopolitics, Contemporary History, Statistics or Calculus, Economics, Social Science, one additional foreign language).

The exams in your major count more than the others. The basic format is a choice among several questions; you pick one and you've got to organize an essay. You may have short-answer items, too. Very similar to the AP exams.

At the end, all scores are added up and a median score is produced on a scale from 0 to 20. Pretty much everyone falls in between 6 and 12. The median grade in French Literature and Composition is around 8.3. 3/4 students get a grade of 8 or below in philosophy. (Humanities grade harder.)

If you scored below 8 points, you lucked out and must repeat the year in order to master the skills and materials better. That's roughly 20% of the candidates (remember that only the top 40-50% made it this far in the first place.)

If you scored between 8 and 9.9, you take 2 oral exams in subjects of your choice, to show that your relatively low score is a fluke but that, really, you're good. :-) If you do well and receive enough points to balance things out, you obtain your BAC. If not, you join the previously mentioned candidates and repeat your year. Roughly 30% are there.

The next 50% don't have the elective orals. They are divided into groups, depending on their score:

Basic honors is called "Mention Passable". You get it for a score of 10 or 11.

Honors is called "Mention ABien". You get it for a score of 12 or 13. It means you were in the top 15-20% among the candidates.

High Honors is called "Mention Bien". You get it for a score of 14 or 15. It means you were in the top 5-10% among the candidates.

Highest Honors is called "Mention TBien". You get it for a score of 16 (or more). It means you were in the top 0.5-1% among the candidates.

Essentially, if you managed to get a "BAC" with or without a mention, you're publicly known as a person of knowledge, ready to embark on specialized studies and intellectual independance. Your name is in the newspaper for a day and if you got a "Mention TB" you may even get money from a local bank and your picture in the paper.  There are lots of rituals related to the BAC. The whole country's obsessed with it. In health or women magazines, a host of advice are related for anxious parents. Pharmacies covers their counters with little jars - Bee Pollen, phosphorus pills, energy boosters, anything to help the future scholar.Even parents who don't believe in God will pray or light candles for their children. During BAC review (most of May), the bac-takers are treated as royals by their family. At the very least their siblings shouldn't think of bothering them.They get food offerings - cookies, chocolate, energy bars, sweetened coffee.   On the day of the Philosophy exam, the 3 questions are discussed in the news. Sometimes, seasoned journalists or random famous people sit mock exams to show how they'd do. The correlation is that the whole nation's judged on that day: is French youth up to the task? Are we sinking (mentally) as a collective entity? On TV, you'll get a film or two about students, the bac, Mai 68, or such. Some of the intellectual or societal talk shows will have a "special" to discuss the school system (general consensus: it's going to hell in a handbasket) or whether things were better in the past (general consensus: they were.) If there's anything left sacred in France, it's the bac! ;-) :-) :-) :-)

[Rich]

Wow, what a process. All I have to do is take the SAT I and a few SAT II's. TY for the info. I thought I was going to have to pass a really hard French Language test. Thanks for the info. I'll pm you if I have any additional questions.