Sunday Driver Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 ChezI suspect that the reason why people think they can maintain the status quo with their vehicles is because, like many things involved with moving to a foreign country, they've never been in this kind of situation before.Think back to when you bought your first car......Your Dad probably sorted all the paperwork out for you and since then, you know that when you buy a car, you need to fill in the change of keeper slip and sort out the three magic things - MOT, tax and insurance. That's it. All very straightforward and domestic, with no strange variations to your motoring life.Up until recently, most people never became involved in importing/exporting cars so they have no conception of the different rules and regulations. Nobody ever reads EU Commision publications (except geeks like me [geek] ) or checks with the DVLA, so they never find out that they can't drive a foreign registered car in their own country. Because they've always driven their own cars, they've never seen this an an issue before and are surprised to discover they can't necessarily do what they imagine is quite natural to them. After all, their driving licence says they can drive a car, so why does the different number plate matter? And if, like most people, they've never been pulled for a car document check, they don't imagine there will be any real problem.I think we have to demonstrate a degree of patience with anyone faced with this strange situation - that's why forums such as these are useful in setting out the proper position. After that, it's down to the individual to decide whether they want to play the game by the rules...... or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chezstevens Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 Sunday Driver,I agree completely. What I grow weary of are individuals that receive advice (that does not fit their wishes) so they trawl other sites looking for someone who agrees with their warped idea of right and wrong. Still let us hope nobody has an accident with a vehicle then find out the hard way - perhaps the problem lies within the UK with the criminal sub-culture of cloning cars, tax dodging etc and that mentality is unfortunately exported with a minority of the ex-pats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Smith Posted October 15, 2006 Share Posted October 15, 2006 That's true in other areas as well - building and electrics to name but two. People who put their safety at risk to save ninepence... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dog Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 It is hardly a sub-culture in the UK to tax dodge or appropriate cars many of the richest people and some politicians are experts at it.Which Tory politician was it that recently lost his ministerial car from the last Tory government? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dog Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 "A vehicle registered in the UK must have a road fund licence. Under the rules for continuous taxation, a current valid tax disc must be displayed on the vehicle at all times. The exception to this is when the vehicle is not being used on a public highway, in which case a Statutory Off Road Notification (SORN) may be declared. The prohibition on driving under a SORN declaration extends to all public roads, including those abroad."So what is the current standing on military vehicles, police cars, ambulances or a vehicle that is your permanent residence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gail Smith Posted October 16, 2006 Author Share Posted October 16, 2006 YESSSSSSS! RESULT!!!!Went to the Hotel d'Impots and then The Prefecture this morning and came home before lunch with a French Number plate for the ST1300!!!No power restrictions..as simple as that.The nice lady at the prefecture put my bike through on 'puissance fiscal' of 12cv. Its there in black and white on the Carte Grise.Thanks to everyone who gave me advise and especially to Sunday Driver whose definitive list of what to take with me today made it all go so smoothly.Off to burn my UK plates now!mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chezstevens Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 No power restrictions?Interesting. So your french insurance company is aware of, and accepted, your horsepower above 100 bhp? If so this is good news for all those that have had their bikes refused above 100 bhp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob T Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Mike, well done. I know how you feel, I felt exactly the same last Thursday with my new French plates on. I am so proud of them that I have put a picture of them on my blog, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gail Smith Posted October 16, 2006 Author Share Posted October 16, 2006 Thanks Bob. funny how something so mundane can give you a feel-good factor isn't it!As for the previous post regarding insurance....are some people never satisfied? I provide everything I am asked for by the authorities, who check them, type all the information from the C of C into the computer, which confirms it is legally entitled to a Carte Grise, which it then, very efficiently prints out. There I stand with the all important legal document which says my bike is now legally registered in France. Further,I have sent a copy of the carte grise to my insurers and they tell me i now own a fully insured French bike (and low and behold they even tell me Gail is entitled to ride it too....much better than the uk insurance system). Do i care that the bike maybe should be 10bhp less?.......DO I ****!MikeHappy riding everyone... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chezstevens Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Mike,So the answer is no. If you are going to admit on a public forum ( which may be monitored by officials tracking the black economy) that you are knowingly driving a vehicle that doe not conform then at least you have made it easy for the authorities to find you thru your website.To be pedantic you have not furnished all the details, that includes the horsepower, to your insurance company sic no insurance. I have no sense of humour reference people that drive uninsured 'cos if they have an accident somebody always pays - whether it is monetary or emotional loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob T Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Oh come on Chez, he has given them the C of C which states the bhp and the UK logbook which probably does the same. Cut him some slack. Would you prefer it if we all kept our bikes on UK plates and stayed within the grey zone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chezstevens Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Bob,I would rather everybody was legal. That is why some folks are pedantic about getting their bikes to conform - like you are.I have had bikes for over 30 years and thoroughly enjoy using them - normally exceed 7000 miles a year. I have travelled all over europe and Morrocco - having a bike that is correctly documented has meant that I can, god forbid, have an accident and not worry about the consequences once the insurance adjuster and police have had a look.Mike, to be fair, mentioned the CV fiscale (not used at present for tax) of 12. This is not the same as saying to his insurance company that his bike is 110, 120 or 170 bhp.regardsVernBob, I think this has been discussed at length on another forum for horizontal twins, bricks etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob T Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Vern, did you not have a username of Fat Albert on another forum? I think that mine was madman on that forum. How long have you got to go before the queen offers to support your life in France as she has with me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chezstevens Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Bob,That is why I mentioned horizontal twins. I have earned my basic pension but being a ''Professional Aviator'' they have made it hard to let go.Debs and the boys are ensconced in France and I will most likely join them in 4 years, when our endowments mature, so that I do not have to give the french taxman anything from the matured policies.Since I joined at 171/2 it means that under the new APFS05, as PA, I should not need to work.Commutes a b**ger though!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob T Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Ah, I see. I thought that you had recognised me from the blog! You know that there is never the right time to make the jump, don't you. I was Mr. Maintenance policy for the Tonka at Wyton, when I jumped. Everyone told me that I was doing the wrong thing leaving a well paid job to come here and do nothing, but after two years I have never looked back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gail Smith Posted October 16, 2006 Author Share Posted October 16, 2006 This is Gail now not MikeChezstevensAre you saying then that Mike is committing a deception with the insurance for the bike? If you are then we need to sort this out because there is no way that we want to be uninsured. I thought that by declaring and showing all the paperwork to the impots, prefecture and the insurance company that we would be legal. What more can we do?I am getting mightily fed up with this because we have done everything since this started to make sure that the bike we bought would be able to be registered here in France. That is why Mike came in here to ask for advice.When we were looking on French ebay nearly every bike that we enquired about which was over the bhp limit and should have been restricted had the restriction removed. Some offered to have it re-restricted so that they were selling a road legal bike but many 'crowed' about the fact that it had no restriction in the advert!We have not tried to dodge the system unlike many people I know who have bikes here. We have been totally upfront and honest and I resent any implication that it is any other way.Gail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chezstevens Posted October 16, 2006 Share Posted October 16, 2006 Gail,You know whether your bike is under 100 bhp, and complying with conformity and the requirements of your insurers. If it is UK specced then it produces 117 bhp or 17% more power than the insurer may be aware of. You have spent good money on your insurance do you really want your insurer to wriggle out of the contract after a crash - perhaps with 3rd parties claiming?You could draw a comparison between having a vehicle with more bhp than the recognised bhp for type in that country AND say a chap who has had his engine re-chipped in the UK, with subsequent increase in bhp, and not told his insurer. How does the UK insurer, and police, deal with these cases.Your ecu must be able to be re-mapped using the chip for type in country. As Bob will recall BMW had an aftermarket chip that took out the uneven idle and pickup on early R1150RTs. With modern ecu's a re-map should be a credit card away. Other bikes may use a restrictor in the airbox.I am blunt about these things 'cos otherwise folk are deluding themselves. If you have any doubt, and obviously want to keep within the law, then visit DRIRE or the gendarmes (I suggest not on the bike) and show them the UK spec with BHP clearly marked. If they are happy (!) get it in writing to show your insurers. A little work now may prevent a world of trouble later - ask anybody how tenacious the authorities can be in France.'nuff said cos you either settle it or plead ignorance and hope for the best.Vernon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chezstevens Posted October 17, 2006 Share Posted October 17, 2006 Cheminot,Rather than go thru' the same again. This worth reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gail Smith Posted October 18, 2006 Author Share Posted October 18, 2006 I have decided to post again on this issue only because, having looked more closely into the outcome of my particular registration experience, I have found that some of the commments made in the thread are not accurate' or at least the issues are not quite so black and white as we may be led to believe. i am pretty sure that what i am writing below is well known to those really in the know about this issue anyway.... but i will post it anywayI have checked with the carte grise officials and the 100bhp limit is, in practice, 'notional' and not absolute. The 1980 law states a maximum of 73,6kw (100bhp) but the actual maximum power permissible is what is on the carte grise under the section (P2). Whatever that says, this is your LEGAL limit (gendarmes, insurers, DRIRE, uncle tom cobbly and all). The carte Grise is the definitive document regarding this. In my case, for an ST1300A, they allowed me 109bhp on my carte grise... that is only 8bhp below the actual, maximum bhp of my Pan at the rear wheel. Different bikes can have a different limit on their carte grise.( possibly depending on how much one smiles at the clerk...who knows!!). I am going to check, definitively with my insurers if this is the reason they are happy to insure the bike in its UK spec.( which they clearly are as they have been given the 117bhp figure and i recieved my documents today) and will post the outcome, as it may be of use to others, particularly those with bikes which are not too far over the notional limit.If they do want the 8bhp restriction, the only way may be to leave the old air filter and plugs in when its tested ...lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark24 Posted November 17, 2006 Share Posted November 17, 2006 Well Firstly I must thank Sunday Driver and all that have contributed to the threadsAbout importing motorcycles into France.When we first moved to France the bike was insured had mot and tax this all ran out last January ,and that’s when I thought I was doomed to have to take the bike a FJR 1300 with 143bhp back to the Uk to sell as I was in no way going to get it on French plates .So for the last 11 months I have just looked at it ,sat on it stared it and just wished.So after reading the posts from this thread me and the wife said lets just give it a go .And to cut a long story short I have just fixed my new French plate to the bike .So thanks to one and all and to any one doubting ,it can be done YESSSSSSS! RESULT!!!! The nice lady at the prefecture put my bike through on 'puissance fiscal' of 12cv. Its there in black and white on the Carte Grise.And the insurance company have said that all is fine and above board . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugsy Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 I've just read through all this thread with interest and feel it time to add my five-penneth.The motorcycle limit of power in France is100bhp. This is extended to allow a margin of error to a max of 106bhp. Anyone found riding a French registered bike that exceeds this limit risks having their bike taken off them and destroyed. Insurance will be deemed invalid and you will generally find yourself in a situation you'd rather not be in.How do I know this, from a very good French friend, who lives in Paris and happens to be one of the top officials in a national French Motorcycle Association.Any motorcycle dealer in France also has an obligation to advise you on what you can and cannot legally ride.A final point, that affected me personally was that, certainly in the case of Triumph, the Kilometre part of your speedo must be the main part and not the supplimentary (inner).If you choose to ignore or fiddle your way round this, don't say you weren,t told.Ride safe.............................and Legal.......................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chezstevens Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 I think the responsible riders have commented on this ad nauseum. Just like in the UK there will be a few that ignore, or charitably 'misinterprete the rules', to suit themselves. If there is a 'fatac' then hopefully they will be brought to account. I have ridden bikes for 30+ years and the 'chancers' cost us all in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugsy Posted November 20, 2006 Share Posted November 20, 2006 Agree totally................................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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