Please settle an argument !!

[Will]

I think it is a matter of chance whether or not an insurer will pay out under such circumstances - some will refuse as the drivers in these cases were clearly not the insured persons. Others may make a goodwill payment.

However, in the case originally put forward, the insured person(s) will still be driving, and they have been issued with insurance, albeit in a different country. Therefore I feel, as I said earlier, that in the event of an accident the insurer would almost certainly pay out according to legal cover requirements, though it may refuse to cover own damage. I think that is probably why the UK police spokesman considered the situation to be within the law.

Interestingly, back in the very early days of the forum I raised a similar question, as we had our car routinely checked by police while in England. It was a LHD car, insured and CTd in France, going through the re-registration process, but still with British registration (DVLA having been properly notified and issued an export certificate). Incidentally it was the fact that it had been French registered before that was proving the stumbling block at the prefecture: we had thought that would ease the process, but should have known better.

Anyway, the policeman concerned was perfectly happy with the explanation we gave as to why the index number came up as invalid on the police computer - this would tally with Quillan's posting.

I mention it here, though, because at the time somebody who claimed to be a former traffic policeman posted that in his experience our vehicle was illegal, uninsured, and a danger to the community and if he had been there he would have made sure that we did not return to France before the end of a long prison sentence (hanging would have been recommended if it was still on the statute book). A slight exaggeration, maybe, but you get the picture.

It still seems to be far from clear-cut.

[Sunday Driver]

[quote user="Quillan"]

I did a search for a phone number and all I could get was New Scotland Yard (0207 230 1212) who put me through to the traffic division at Marylebone and this is the question I asked.

I have just moved to France. I have a car which is on UK plates and is currently taxed and MOTed but the insurance has run out. I have bought French car insurance as part of my preparation for registering the car in France. I want to visit my family back in the UK over Christmas. If I get stopped for any reason how do I stand legally? If this is illegal can you please tell me what offence I would be prosecuted for and part of the Road Traffic act I would be breaching. I also pointed out that the certificate was written only in French.

(Think that just about covers it)

This was their reply.

If the insurance certificate covers the vehicle for driving in the UK then it is perfectly legal but you would be advised to bring an English translation of the document with you.

So there you go, in my own mind I was dead certain it would not be legal but according to them there is no problem providing your certificate shows that your insurance covers you within the UK.

So for my part I apologise as it would appear I was totally wrong.

[/quote]

Quillan - no apologies required.  You were absolutely right in the first place.

Based on what you told them, the police response is clearly founded on the premise that the vehicle has been properly notified to the DVLA as having been exported (and therefore is no longer UK registered).  On that basis, their response is correct in that the RTA requirement for UK insurance would no longer apply and the French policy would provide legal cover.

However, in POB's friend's case, the car is still a UK registered car (and remember, it is not yet "French" legal) so he still has to comply with the RTA.

[quote user="Quillan"]

Further to my previous post. I have done a search and found this http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1988/Ukpga_19880052_en_7.htm#mdiv143

What in my mind it says is that you must have an insurance policy for the car or driver that gives a minimum of 3rd party insurance within the UK. There is no mention of where the certificate has to be issued (country wise) although it must be from an approved issuer by that I believe them to mean an insurance company or agent authorised to issue certificates on their behalf. If I we the friend of the original poster I would print this out, get a translation of the policy (probably by scanning it and using an electronic translator) and take it with me just to be on the safe side.

Just as a disclaimer this is my interpretation and it may not be correct but then linked to the information given to me by the police as in my previous post I rather suspect it may be true. I would also make doubly sure that the French insurance company agrees that I have insurance within the UK, just to be on the safe side.

ADDED - The rest of the car must be UK legal if it has UK plates i.e. valid tax disk and English MOT if applicable.

[/quote]

If you go further down your link and read Section 145 of the Road Traffic Act 1988, this defines an authorised insurer as "a person or body of persons carrying on insurance business within Group 2 in Part II of Schedule 2 to the [1982 c. 50.] Insurance Companies Act 1982 and being a member of the Motor Insurers' Bureau (a company limited by guarantee and incorporated under the [1929 c. 23.] Companies Act 1929 on 14th June 1946)."

So, unless POB's friend's French insurer is classed as an authorised UK insurer within the meaning of the Act, then they will commit an offence by driving in the UK.

I appreciate you're trying to find a solution to their problem, so I hate putting the dampers on things.  However, it's important that POB and his friend understand the legal position.

At the end of the day, the practical advice you gave earlier is the only solution they have.  Their French insurance cover will be valid in the case of accidents involving third parties and their own vehicle.  If they are stopped by the police, then in practice, if they show all their French documents, then they'd be unlikely to be booked.  It's a risk, but......

 

[Quillan]

Actually SD they did ask me for the car registration number and the only thing that came to mind was my old Disco number which I gave them, they verified then by asking what car it was and semed happy with that so it is still on the DVLC database. Fortunatly they never asked my name otherwise I would have come really unstuck. So they based their response on the car being UK registered. I wonder if the poor bloke thats driving my old Disco will get a tug if ever he drives in London and asked for his insurance [:D] .

Having said that and in your follow up investigation to my last post it would seem that the police don't really know either then (nothing new there then, 5 dead bodies, all women, in the same area, might be a serial killer?)

I don't think we will ever get a satisfactary answer to this so I would say this.

POB - Tell your mate to dump his car at the port, go as a foot passenger and hire a car in the UK. It's probaly an added expence but at least he can sleep well whilst visiting. If he sends of now for his letter of conformity (unless he has already got one) he can walk it round the system when he gets back and he will be 100% street legal.