gas for a mig welder.

[dave21478]

well, the restoration project has hit a stumbling block....I have run out of gas for the welder. I have an old BOC bottle of carbon dioxide, which has lasted me years, but its finally given up.

Obviously I cant exchange it here in France, I went round a couple of places yesterday, and the prices are frightening. They all want me to take a minimu 3 years contract for the bottle at around 200 - 250€ upfront, with the bottle refills then costing 60 - 100€.

It would almost be worth my while going back to UK to get mine refilled there!

Anyway, does anyone know of a french gas distributer like BOC that have reasonable rates? Is there a chance of finding somewhere that can refill my bottle there and then? what about drinks co2 bottles? in uk, pub bottles are commonly used for welders. I was at an outdoor event the other day and spotted the beer pumps on the stalls were running rom usefull-sized co2 bottles - who supplies/fills these and would I be likely to be able to get my hands on one?

Thanks,

[Bob T]

In the UK I used CO2 from the local pub. The landlord used to exchange my empty bottle for a full one for peanuts. Since I have been here I use an inverter arc welder as MIG is not thought of as a DIY welder here.

[AnOther]

It's a problem I'll be facing at some time also so I've put it on my list of 'things to do/buy' when next in UK with the car which will be in October.

Co2 bottles are not so easy to get from the pub anymore as most have gone over to multigas I think they call it. Some beer wholesale outlets will exchange them for you though I believe. 

If it's any help I seem to remember seeing somewhere those tiny bottles you sometimes got with a MIG welder when you bought it, far too expensive for regular use but enough to get you out of a jam. Mr Bricolage sell MIGs so it may have been in there.

My oxy acetylene bottles will be a much bigger problem - please don't ask how I got them to France [:$]

Come the day I may have to brush up on my arc welding skills.

 

[dave21478]

Aye, most of the Mr Brico-rama-depot-lage stores sell the disposable bottles, but at 15€ a pop, they are far from economical apart from very occasional use, and even then, its not unusual for the flimsy valves on them to let all the gas seep out, leaving you empty when you need it. My project car is still at the "bare shell on it`s roof on an old mattress with no floor-pan" stage. There is a massive amount of welding to do, so a big bottle is the only way.

Maybe my google-fu is weak today, but I simply can not find any kind of national supplier like a French BOC.

I asked on a local-ish car club forum, and seemingly in the Marseille area, there is a company that you can sign up to for about 80€, they deliver a bottleof co2 (slightly higher prices for argon/co2 mix) for another 30€, and when its empty, you phone them up and they come round with a full one to swap for your empty, and only charge 30€. Exactly what I need, but Im far from Marseille, but given the prices I have found so far, it will be well worth my while to take a run down and collect the bottles each time I need one myself. I will look into it and keep you posted if I find anything.

I too have been considering going back to arc welding. The wee inverter sets are a relatively reasonable price now, and they can do very low current settings so are fairly manageable on car bodywork with turning it to swiss cheese. Cant beat the old MIG though, its what Im used to, and the simplicity and ease of use put it right above arc for regular use.

 

For the oxy acetylene stuff - My bottles were about done, so I never brought them over, just the torch etc. I got a pair of "Linde" bottles on contract from a shop called SEM Angles in Albi - they do bathrooms and plumbing supplies. The bottles worked out about 80€ each, which I thought was reasonable. (I tried the same shop for the CO2, but they dont stock it - they could order it in, but the price made me feel dizzy!)

 

Given the generally shocking prices of consumables for my hobby - grinding and cutting discs, MIG tips, wet n dry paper, paint etc etc, it might be worth my while heading back to UK and stocking up a decent supply to bring down. That way, at the same time I could maybe get some doorskins that arent completely banana`d by the courier companies [:@] The problem is, Im stuck here due to the Gites till September, and I was hoping to have the car finished by then, I dont want to loose the whole summer due to lack of materials.

[Pierre ZFP]

Warning - thread hijack alert !!!

Just wanted the views of the assembled wisdom about these handbag sized inverter welders.  I'm just getting back into the swing of wielding a welding rod. Still not good but I'm getting better with practise.  Anyway, my arc welder is perhaps not of the best quality and is big and heavy and ugly (just like me).  My local Brico shed has ben knocking out Mac Allister inverter welders as follows :-  80 amp for 99euros, 100 amp for 129 euros, 120 amp for 199 euros. I was thinking of the 100 amp model.  It has a duty cycle of only 1 hour (before it gets too hot I suppose) but that would be more than enough for me as just a hobby welder just doing ornimental stuff, nothing mission critical like car chassis!  The max rod size I think I'm ever likely to use is 2.5mm.  So what do you think? Worth a go?  (and why are they soooo much more expensive in Screwfix ???)

[Mr Wiggy]

Hi Dave.

I too had the same sort of  problem I now buy the bottles of the oxygen as my mixed bottle expired and as a back-up I do have some gas-less wire for certain jobs, I am also wearing L-plates on my back. I have noticed recently more mig welders being advertised alongside the arc welders in many of the Brico depots and I think a time will come when the Mig will be the more popular welder as it is a cleaner and stronger weld, from what I've read.

[tracteurtom]

[quote user="dave21478"]

For the oxy acetylene stuff - My bottles were about done, so I never brought them over, just the torch etc. I got a pair of "Linde" bottles on contract from a shop called SEM Angles in Albi - they do bathrooms and plumbing supplies. The bottles worked out about 80€ each, which I thought was reasonable. (I tried the same shop for the CO2, but they dont stock it - they could order it in, but the price made me feel dizzy!)

 

[/quote]

Dave, thats a good price for a oxy acetylene pair.  Best I can find is around the 500 € mark !  I too have the torches etc etc and thinking I'll get the bottles here, but ouch that wasn't in the budget !  That said, I've seen some very small oxy acetylene setups for sale at Brico places with the crappiest torch you could image, I think the price was around 200€ for the lot ?

[Meg]

Same problem here, i'm after a mig and oxy-acetylene equipment, (including cutting torch) but yes the price of teeny bottles in bricos is just laughable, and impractical. I haven't yet got round to sourcing a proper alternatives. I think there is a welding shop in Perigueux (24) which i am going to have a look for and will ask about bottles etc. 

Although, giving the fact that the bricos are almost giving away arc welders at the moment, i may just get a really cheapo one to be getting on with, i don't much like using them though.

[nomoss]

If you're near to Spain, I think gases and bottles are cheaper there than in France.

I bought my small oxy bottle (85 cm high, don't know the volume) in Spain some time ago, and brought it here when we moved.

I get it filled at a tool supply shop in Figueres, Comercial Borrell, not far from Intermarché. It's so long since I last filled it I can't remember the cost. They sell most industrial gases.

I use propane for welding and brazing, and had no problem buying a regulator to fit the French bottles.

[dave21478]

Pierre - every now and then, I eye up the inverter units in the DIY shops.They look nice, but I have no practical experience of any of the brands I have seen. I noticed that some of the facier ones can even be used as TIG welders with the addition of the correct torch, gas bottle etc. I have never TIG welded, so dont know mch about it, but seemingly there are two basic types of welder, one significantly cheaper than the other, and the cheap ones arent so good. But thats for TIG use, I have no idea if its applicable to ARC use with rods. I have also noticed that ebay has plenty from germany and china - its even possible to get all-in-one things that do arc, tig and plasma cutting. A good plasma cutter is a fantastic tool to have. It wasnt that long ago that they were well into 4-figures for a small cutter, but these sets can be had for under £500 now. I dont know if they are any good though. Part of my mind says "you get what you pay for" but the other parts says the chinese specialise in taking a good brand-name product, changing the label on it and churning out thousands of copies on the cheap.

 

Tracteurtom - I had also seen the bottles all for sale around the 500€ mark, but asked in that shop on the off-chance as I was in for other stuff. The chap signed me up for the contract and I paid the 80€ per bottle refill charge, but never paid any kind of initia purchase or rental price. Good luck? An error on their part? or maybe thats normal practice? I dont know, and Im not going to question it too closely!

[dave21478]

double-post

 

[tracteurtom]

That explains it then - you jammy sod !  He forgot to charge you the deposit or assumed that you had dropped of two bottles for recharge.  Your bill should have been  500 - 800 € !!   Beware, these trade supply companies have a habit of sending you a bill many months down the line when they suss out something is not right.  If this bothers you and you cant sleep at night, I'm happy to take the bottles of your hands ......[6]  I might just try again at my local Linde distributor [;-)]

[dave21478]

well, todays run to Ikea at Toulouse resulted in a major detour through the surrounding industrial estate due to roadworks, where by chance I passed a big welding supplies shop.

A sulking teenager in the back and a narking sister in the passenger seat meant that stopping in to make enquiries would have resulted in stress levels (already running very high) being elevated to beyond safe levels. But, I have to go back to toulouse on Friday and will be alone, so assuming I can find the place again, I should hopefully get some prices.

[AnOther]

If it helps or is potentially closer there's one in Montauban which I discovered by accident.

Driving south on what I think is the A820 which goes past Brico Marche and Leclerc etc. it's on the left maybe a km or so past there, maybe Ave Jean Moulin. Big place with plenty of parking right outside, some stuff like pressure washers in the windows which is what caught my eye as I passed. Wish I could recall the name [:$]

 

[denverd0n]

Good lord, that's depressing.  I'm just in the process of moving to France.  Last time I filled a CO2 bottle (10 lbs.) in the United States it cost me $12.50 -- current exchange rate, that's less than 8 € !

[dave21478]

Well, I found the welding shop again. Infact there are a few in the area. If anyone is interested its in Portet-sur-Garonne, which is on the south western outskirts of toulouse. Very near Ikea on the Tarbes road there is an industrial estate. The street was Ave Des Cerisiers. Anyway, no way to fill my bottle, and no way to change it - no surprises. Taking a new bottle is still going to cost 300+€ though. it broke down as 260€ish to buy a Linde  bottle outright with no contract, or 280€ish for a 3 year rental contract, plus 60€ish for the first fill, then 60€ish per recharge after that. There was at least two other welding shops nearby, but I never bothered asking as no doubt this is just the general price it costs :(

There is a big Linde depot there also,but the reception was closed when I went in to make enquiries.

 

This has just hacked me right off. I find these prices completely disgusting and pretty much refuse to pay such a high price. Sadly, it looks like Im not going to have much choice. Next steps in order of preferance are...

See if I can find this place in Montpellier I talked about earlier or somewhere similar closer by. At 300+€ a bottle locally, it should be well worth a day out in the car to get a cheap bottle there.

"Aquire" a genuine French bottle from somewhere.

Speak to a bar owner about getting a pub CO2 bottle.

Try some "gasless" fluxed wire in the welder. My unit isnt a dual-purpose one, but i believe swapping the polarity of torch and earth lead is all thats required. I have only used gasless once a long time ago and found it produced splattery, messy welds so dont really fancy it much. I will give it a try with a small spool to see how I get on. Having said that, Ill bet even a small spool will cost me my soul and my left nut.

sack off the mig altogether and go back to arc welding.

 

Not impressed.

[AnOther]

EDIT:  On re-reading remembered you'd already got Oxy/Acetylene [:$]

I might pick up a spare Co2 cylinder when I'm in UK in October.

 

[AnOther]

They do come up on eBay so worth keeping an eye out on the off chance [;-)]

Is the connection in France different or could you not get yours filled simply because it was not French so presumably not certified ?

 

[dave21478]

I dont know if the fittings are different, but that should present little problems. (famous last words!) 

I cant get my own one filled on the spot by anywhere I have asked yet as it is unknown to them. Seemingly I could possibly get it pressure tested, but this is likely to cost silly money.

 

I was just browsing ebay earlier this evening and found this place....

http://stores.ebay.fr/LE-SPECIALISTE-DE-LA-POMPE-A-BIERE

located near Auch, who have a few second-hand co2 cylinders for 100€, filled, or brand new ones for 180€ish. I have bought a used one this evening and should be picking it up monday, so hopefully that is that sorted.

I might actually get this car finished before the end of the summer yet!

 

 

[AnOther]

Glad you're sorted but still a shed load of money for what we know can be had for peanuts in UK which rather tends to prove that the cost in France is not neccessarily related to intrinsic value [blink]

What is the cost of a refill I wonder ?

 

[Chancer]

Sorry I have only just read this due to problems with  the forum would no longer accepting my password - long story but true to form of this forum.

Anyway have you tried "air liquide"? They own or used to own BOC in the UK where my best mate works.

So for me refills or new cylinders to be exact are no problem but getting rid of the old empty ones has proved to be rather a challenge, I have a good collection of most types on both sides of the channel.

Regarding your question of French names for seam sealer and weld thru primer etc it was too late to ask at the Lycée but while at Macess in the UK I picked up a tin of granville seam sealer which also was written in French, not much help really as not a generic but name something like "produit pour etanchiete les joins de la carrosserie"

I am an oxy/acetylene man myself and prefer this for car restoration, I always used MMC for gate fabrication and repair for its speed and portability, here in France I bought a €99 handbag invertor welder which whilst not being as good as either of the aforementioned is very easy to use for a novice and on reasonable (not rotten as a pear Italian) car body work would do quite a good job if the welds were disguised with loads of seamsealer. FWIW I think the gasless migs are a waste of space and the welds (if you are lucky enough to get penetration) resemble bird sh1t.