What happened to Commercial Union Insurance?

[Llantony]

We have visited the local AXA agent who says we can insure our UK reg. car with them (don't need Controle Technique which surprises me).

To get maximum no claims bonus, we need proof dating 13 years.  In 1998-9 we were insured by Commercial Union General Insurance.  I just have cover note from them, not suspecting I'd ever need documentation from that long ago.  I cannot find them on the Internet.  There is a mention they might have merged with General Accident but I can't find a website for them either! 

Have they collapsed?  How can I get proof proof of no claims if a company no longer exists?  Would their records be kept anywhere?       

[Clair]

This might help: http://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/1531651/ShowPost.aspx

[Llantony]

Thanks, that's useful.   It's just that the  AXA agency is nearby, very helpful people, and they will insure our car with its UK registration plates.  We may sort out the French registration later as it will take a while!  That will also require us to get a controle technique cert. which normally means paying out a lot to change the headlights.  We have had to spend a lot on the car recently so prefer to hang as long as poss before changing the plates.

Also our UK insurance is for trips of up to 90 days which means we wouldn't be covered after March - and the insurance will be due for renewal anyway.  As we are now living in France we need French car insurance.

[Boiling a frog]

Can I ask how you intend to remain legal in the country in which the car is registered therby entitling you to use the vehicle in another EU country for a limited period.

If the car is registered in the UK it requires Road Tax, also an MOT (not a CT) and assurance for third party risks.

You cannot obtain road tax with French assurance. You cannot obtain an MOT in France.

 

[Chancer]

Commercial union were one of my biggest customers, they were poised to award me a huge contract when everything went embarrassingly quiet, it turned out they were being taken over as I had suspected so I lost out, if I had my wits about me I would have bought some of their shares which rocketed at that time as recompense.

Anyway the name kept changing first it was C.U. then C.G.U. (bought or merged with general accident) then C.G.N.U. when Norwich Union became involved, I think that they were still under that umbrella when I ceased my business in 2004.

Good Luck

[Llantony]

Well, I had thought the same but didn't know whether you get French plates then insurance or vice-versa.  However Axa is obviously used to insuring English registered cars in France.  We have a valid MOT and UK tax at the moment.  I realise we should get local registration plates after 6 months but that and new headlights is quite an expense so the later the better.  Having said that, I know of British people who live in France and have had 2 UK registered cars for several years - in fact they only go to the UK by plane.  They found a Controle Technique that does not require them to change to French registration or change the headlights for driving on the right hand side.                                      

[cooperlola]

The law says 1 month, Llantony, not 6.  Although it's true many people choose to break the law for years and get away with it.

Make sure your current company is aware that you live in France, and that they are happy with that.  Many won't cover you once you've moved so you need to be sure. 

Insurance first, everything else later.  Then at least you know that if you run somebody over that your insurance will cover them.  If not you would be liable for the lot, including their -not inconsiderable - hospital costs. I was recently the victim of somebody else's bad driving so this subject is close to my heart.  I'm glad they were properly insured, that's for certain!

[Benjamin]

[quote user="Llantony"]

  I realise we should get local registration plates after 6 months but that and new headlights is quite an expense so the later the better.

[/quote]

I suppose it would really b*gger up the spending money for the trip to the States.   [6]

[Boiling a frog]

[quote user="Llantony"]Well, I had thought the same but didn't know whether you get French plates then insurance or vice-versa.  However Axa is obviously used to insuring English registered cars in France.  We have a valid MOT and UK tax at the moment.  I realise we should get local registration plates after 6 months but that and new headlights is quite an expense so the later the better.  Having said that, I know of British people who live in France and have had 2 UK registered cars for several years - in fact they only go to the UK by plane.  They found a Controle Technique that does not require them to change to French registration or change the headlights for driving on the right hand side.[/quote]

 

I know lots of people who

1) Drive at well over the speed limit

2) Who drive while drunk

3) Who do not declare any tax returns in France despite living here full time.

4) Who break the law but do not get caught.

That does not make it lawfull  

[allanb]

I know this is an old, old subject, but...

[quote user="Llantony"]I know of British people who live in France and have had 2 UK registered cars for several years - in fact they only go to the UK by plane.  [/quote]I'd keep away from them if I were you.  If they cause you any damage, you may find that their insurer doesn't want to know.

[Sunday Driver]

To be honest, it's not worth arguing with Llantony.

He's already accepted advice from English friends that he doesn't need to pay any tax in France and he has now found an AXA broker who's willing to mislead him over the legality of his car in order to earn his commission.  

He clearly thinks he has the right to carry on driving it even though he seem unable to afford to..... 

 

 

[Llantony]

Unnecessary sarcasm.  The first and only US trip - for a special occasion.  Haven't had a holiday for several years. 

[Llantony]

Sumday Driver: Why assume everyone is male?  Why post just to insult people?  (Why would a large and reputable company insure many UK registered cars if it's illegal to do so?  (And in one case, have dealt with a claim with no problem.)

As Cooperlola said 'Insurance first, everything else later.'  Which is why I posted the question in the first place.  Knowing how long everything takes to sort in France we need above all to make sure we are not without insurance.  Our UK insurance covers for up to 90 days and as far as they know we are on holiday but we want to change to French insurance a.s.a.p.

 

[Boiling a frog]

[quote user="Llantony"]

Why assume everyone is male?  Why post just to insult people?  Why would a large and reputable company insure many UK registered cars if it's illegal to do so?  (And in one case, have dealt with a claim with no problem.)

[/quote]

 

It is not illegal for AXA to insure a UK registered car ,for a short time.

However as in the UK,a broker will probably not know the exact legislation in relation to foreign registered vehicles. However if you are happy to follow the advice of your english friends ,good luck but do not ask advice on this forum if you are not prepared to accept the correct and legal way of residing in France

[Tony F Dordogne]

Llantony, you don't say where you are in SW France.

I know of at least 3 people in this area who insured with AXA as you mentioned you would/could, no problem for AXA, UK registered cars and when it came to claiming, AXA would NOT pay out on the grounds the cars had been in France too long without being re-registered, were therefore illegal and that the insurance was void.  I also seem to remember that in the past people have posted messages here saying after 6 months they received letters from their French insurers telling them that their insurance was invalid or about to be so, if they didn't re-register.

I can't see the point of asking for help in here when you're asking people to support you by providing information in something that turns out in the medium term to be illegal.  OK, it's an inconvenience having to sort the headlights and it's your money so you spend it where you see fit but I wouldn't take the advice of friends/AXA over some of the people on here, many of us have seen the consequenmces of 'money saving' in France.

[allanb]

Perhaps SD is right and Llantony is a lost cause.  But there may be others who might learn something useful, so let me add something to what Tony F D wrote.

The fact that a claim may have been paid doesn't actually prove anything.  Insurers often pay claims which perhaps shouldn't have been paid, simply because - depending on the probable cost of the claim - it may not be worth the time and cost of a proper examination.

When the big accident happens, and the big claim follows - that's when the investigator calls, and pretty soon you find out whether your insurance was valid.

[cooperlola]

In fairness to us, Llantony, I don't think it's unreasonable that we might imagine you're a chap as your name appears to be Tony - albeit in Welsh form.

SD (one of the most knowlegeable and helpful members of this forum) may be right but as Alan says - in deference to other members who may be looking in I'll roast this old chestnut one more time.  Your insurance company may allow up to 60 days in another European country for holidays but I very much doubt this applies as you are now resident.  I repeat - I am glad I was in an accident with somebody who had proper insurance because their bill is likely to run into hundreds of thousands of euros when one takes into account the amout of hospital treatment I have had over the last five months - and there's still loads more to come.  If I (and Sunday Driver who also had a car accident which was not his fault last year) had had an accident with an unisured Brit, we would have been stuffed.  PLEASE, for the sake of all the other road users here, make your headlights safe for night driving on French roads, and get proper insurance.  Thanks.[:)]

[Bob T]

[quote user="Llantony"]

Why would a large and reputable company insure many UK registered cars if it's illegal to do so? 

[/quote]

It is not illegal for an insurance company to insure any car, It is illegal for the owner to not register a car within the rules. You don't expect the insurance company to give you legal advice do you? When you find yourself in court for not abiding by the rules, I would think that using the insurance company advice as an excuse would not go down very well.

[Bob T]

[quote user="cooperlola"]

  Your insurance company may allow up to 60 days in another European country for holidays but I very much doubt this applies as you are now resident. 

[/quote]

You are correct Coops. Read any UK insurance policy small print and it will tell you one condition is that the holder is a UK resident. The 60 days European cover is for holiday makers and that stops when you are a French resident.

I would think twice, no three times, before questioning SD as he is one of the most knowledgeable people here when it comes to researching legal matters.

[Sunday Driver]

To help others faced with this situation, just consider how insurance agents typically operate.

When an agent sells you a motor policy on behalf of an insurance company (eg AXA) , it's a twelve month contract.  Once you've signed it, the contract details are submitted to the insurance company and as far as the insurance company is concerned the policy is now live and that's it.  The agent should then issue a time limited certificate of insurance to cover the vehicle until it's registered, then issue a full year certificate on production of the new carte grise.

However, in order to avoid placing obstacles in the way of unscrupulous Brits wanting to avoid the cost of registering their cars (and potentially losing the sale - and their commission), the agent can issue a twelve month certificate of insurance without the knowledge of the insurance company.  

In the event of a claim,  the insurance company will review the original policy and discover that the vehicle remains unregistered, and therefore does not comply with the code de la route.

Whilst third party damages will always be settled, cue excuse for potential rejection of any 'own vehicle damage' element of the claim......

Under French insurance law, the mutuelles (eg, MAAF, Groupama, etc) are not permitted to employ commission based agents, so this situation tends not to arise with them.

Of course, the simplest way to protect yourself is to write to the insurer (not the agent) and ask them to confirm in writing that in the event of your vehicle not conforming with French traffic law, they will not refuse to pay out any damages to it....[;-)]