What to do if moving to France temporarilly?

[Fiona]

(finally corrected my spelling! [:)].   Thanks again folks, I feel like I have opened a real can of worms here!  I totally agree - re the insurance policies - the whole point of having insurance is that you can rest assured they will pay out if required.  I think in fairness to Vida it sounds to me as if their situation is legal.  If her husband is returning to the UK frequently and is living with this parents then surely it is absolutely fine to have the cars registered to that address?  As Andy says these policies are intended for long holidays/touring.  Our current camper van insurance allows us to be out of the country for 6 months at a time.  The reason we have set a 6 month deadline is because that is how long we can rent the gite for - then we MUST decide if we go back, or find somewhere else and then we will have to make sure all is in order.  I think we are likely to follow a similar course as Vida initially - as my partner will be going back to the UK fairly frequently for work, he is going to be staying with friends when he returns and we will likely register the cars there for a the first 6 months, keep them UK legal.  He will still be effectively living in the UK but visiting France for weeks on end.  Myself and the children will be living in France full time and our healthcare (i.e. myself and the children) will be covered by my E106.

 

[AnOther]

If you look on their site this is what you'll find, my earlier quote was but a snippet, interestingly they only mention Spain and Portugal.

"We provide Motor Policies for British Registered Cars, Left or Right Hand Drive, with extended Foreign Use across the 27 States of the EU plus some non member countries without limit of time.

Please note that this is a UK Motor Policy and therefore includes use here without restriction.

Whilst you may be told that Green Cards are no longer required in the EU we prefer you to have one and therefore issue an annual Green Card with your cover papers.

We are pleased to arrange UK rated policies for those clients that live outside UK but keep a vehicle at their address here to use on their trips back to UK. To complement our policies for UK registered cars, we are able to arrange Motor Insurance for European Expatriates with either holiday or permanent homes in Spain or Portugal with vehicles that are on local or UK plates via Ibex Insurance based on Gibraltar with local claims service operating from Spain."

Go on Coops, do it, something to pass a bit of time whilst you're 'cooped' up [:D]

 

[cooperlola]

Right, Fiona, I'm a bit more clued up about your situation now. [:)] As you are going to have your healthcare via an E106 then you will have, automatically, declared your intention to relinquish your British domicile.  You will also have to register it at your CPAM.  Thus I see no getting away from declaring tax in France also for the duration of your stay, however long that may turn out to be.

Ernie : All I need now is a UK address....

[AnOther]

...and registering your cars within the first month, which brings us neatly back to where we came in [:D]

Re a UK address Coops: as it's by way of an experiment make one up, but somehow I don't think it would get that far [blink]

 

[cooperlola]

[quote user="ErnieY"]

Re a UK address Coops: as it's by way of an experiment make one up, 

 

[/quote]And the response would get to me how, exactly?[:D]

[Fiona]

[quote user="cooperlola"]

Right, Fiona, I'm a bit more clued up about your situation now. [:)] As you are going to have your healthcare via an E106 then you will have, automatically, declared your intention to relinquish your British domicile.  You will also have to register it at your CPAM.  Thus I see no getting away from declaring tax in France also for the duration of your stay, however long that may turn out to be.

 

[/quote]

But my partner will not be on an E106 and will change his address to c/o friends, where we plan to register the cars to. He will genuinely have to spend a fair bit of time in the UK for at least the first 4 months so surely this is a perfectly legal way around it as the cars are registered to him, not me??  I have no problems declaring tax etc in France - that is not what the debate was about.  It was just simply if there was a way around having to re-register the cars, just in case we find at the end of 6 months that it's not going to work out for us and we have to head back to the UK.  Given the current state of the Uk though I sincerely hope that's not the case - I really want it to work out in France!  I don't want to avoid being in the French system at all - to be honest I would rather pay tax and cottisations so I know that when my E106 expires I will be in the system there.  It's just the cars I am trying to work out!  To be honest, when we move we may just sell the UK registered car and buy a French one!   Thanks again folks

Fi

[cooperlola]

In every way, Fiona, I think your final solution is the best one.  The steering wheel will be on the correct side too.[:)]

Bet you thought you'd get your answer in a couple of posts didn't you?![:D]

[Fiona]

I certainly did!!! [8-)]

thanks

[suein56]

[quote user="cooperlola"]

Bet you thought you'd get your answer in a couple of posts didn't you?![:D][/quote]

Better get used to it Fiona. Answers in France don't come in a short form and are usually only forthcoming when you have found the right person to ask and also worked out the correct question to ask in the first place ...

Sue [:)]

[Chancer]

Unless I was absolutely certain of what the future held I would not consider registering my car until after the initial 6 months to avoid the hassle of having to do the same again should I return to the UK.

My own car I registered after one year because it suited me to do so at that time.  I cant see anyone stringing me up for it not when they have their pick of any number of UK registered cars locally that have been here many many years.

I really dont understand why this is such an emotive subject for some forum members, live and let live I say.

If others want to waste money returning to the UK every year to get their car MOT'd and paying the equivalent cost of the carte grise every year for road tax plus paying a premium to an AXA agent for fully comp insurance that will only be good for 3rd party claims when they have an accident then so be it, if someone is unsure what their situation will be in 6 months what is the harm?

[jondeau]

[quote user="allanb"][quote user="jondeau"]I know a chap and his wife who have lived in Charente Maritime for more than 14 years........never registered themselves or anything else including various cars as living in France.   

Still living there now.[/quote]They must be in breach of several regulations, but leaving that aside, what do they do about health car

[/quote]

 

Been away for a day or so.........my apologies.

I know that this may well sound to to many like a total fiction.........but I can assure you it is not.

I became involved with this family when I was living in France many years ago............I'm not going to go into all the details of this familys problems because this is not the place to do so, but I do feel a strong affinity to the younger members of this family who's meagre  inheritance provided the wherewithall to provide the French home  for their elderly penniless parents/step parents.

The older (male) member of this family had a multiple heart by-pass operation in a french hospital  about three or four  or five years ago...........don't ask me how.......I don't know.

I do know that they have lived, and availed themselves of french services for at least the last the 14 -18 years.

Is it right ..  is it wrong........

What does it matter

Surely we are all human.

 

 

 

[Chancer]

[quote user="jondeau"][quote user="allanb"][quote user="jondeau"].[/quote]

[/quote]

Is it right ..  is it wrong........

What does it matter

Surely we are all human.

[/quote]

Hear Hear [:D]

[Ron Avery]

Fiona  wrote "I don't want to avoid being in the French system at all - to be honest I would rather pay tax and cotisations so I know that when my E106 expires I will be in the system there"

You will be in "the system" but not the French healthcare system for inactifs known as the CMU base which is what we used to migrate to when the E 106's expired.  If you become resident in France,  after your E 106 expires you will need to get and pay for private health insurance (PHI) to legally stay in France as entry to the CMU base was closed to inactifs in November 2007.  You will have to have PHI until you have been tax resident in France for 5 years or one of you gets another E form or an E 121 through retirement.

Have a look at Coop's FHI site for more details. 

[mary]

Whats the difference between and E106 and E109.  I was given and E109 as my husnabd is still a full tax payer in the UK, therfore we are able to get health care the same as the french.  It's only valid for 1 year, and sill in the process of getting my Carte Vitel or whatever they are going to give me.    every time I go, they want more info.  This last week, they wanted proof that the kids attend school here.  It's so confusing and every time you go to CPAM, you see someone different, and get different info. 

If I am correct, the E109 will cover me for 3 years,(renewable yearly) I then have to have full private health care for the other two years, before I can then claim full Carte vitel at year 5.  Is this correct?

Thanks

[Ron Avery]

[quote user="vida "]

Whats the difference between and E106 and E109.  A google search on DWP site will tell you the difference.

 .....If I am correct, the E109 will cover me for 3 years,(renewable yearly) I then have to have full private health care for the other two years, before I can then claim full Carte vitel at year 5.  Is this correct?

Yes and No.  Yes you will get membership of the CMU base after 5 years tax declaring/paying residence,  which you will have to pay for: , ....... No there is no such thing as a "full carte vitale".  A CV is just an identity card and a means of easier reimbursement of payments and everybody in a state health scheme has one irrespective of which system they are in, in addition not all pharmacies or medical practitioners accept them and many still issue the brown forms.

 

[/quote]

[cooperlola]

If you have an employment (and thus an NI payment) record of your own, then you will be covered by your own E106.  This is for employees and their dependents who live (but do not work) in another EU country apart from the UK, and lasts for a maximum of 30 months, depending upon their contributions history..  Once your own entitlement has expired, you can then "piggy-back" onto your husband and get your overseas entitlement via him.  The E109 is the form issued to the dependents of those who live and work in the UK but whose dependents live in another EU country.  Thus, as I see it Vida, once your own E106 runs out, you should apply for an E109 via your husband which is, as you say, renewable annually but only for so long as your husband continues to work and live in the UK.  If he moves to France, then you should both get your healthcare via his E106.

Hope this makes sense, but if in doubt then you should contact the DWP's Centre for non-residents in Newcastle.  They will be able to tell you exactly what you are entitled to.

[AnOther]

Nice clear explaination Coops. Couple of points though.

Do you have a solid reference for the 30 month E106 ?

I've seen this mentioned several times but at the same time it's also said that if you applied for an E106 say in October it would only run for the remaining 2 months of that year plus the next 12 (January to January) giving a total of only 14 months. The only way to get in excess of 24 months would be if the remaining months of the year of application were added to the 24 and logically this would only happen if the application was made in the latter half of that year hence giving the maximum of 30 months.

I believe an E109, if appropriate, would be issued by HMRC as it's based on the husbands ongoing UK employment and NI contributions.

 

[cooperlola]

Yes Ernie, I do, but it's on the PC.  I have posted it here before (less than a month ago was the last time.)  I'll try to find the thread.  If not, I will post it again from home.  It is certainly dependent upon when you arrive.  IIRC, roughly :1st July is the optimum departure date, then you get all 30 months.  You then lose one month for each one after that (eg arrive 1st August you get 29 months.)  Arrive between 1st Jan and 30th June you get 24 months.  All the above applies to those who are employed (not self employed) and have a full NI payment record in the 3 years or so before departure.  Self employed people should subtract a year from the above - for some obscure reason!

[AnOther]

Thanks Coops. It's possibly of significant consequence to me because 30 months would means in theory I could pack up work as early as June this year then my E106 would carry me to 5 years.

I say in theory because sadly the current finacial situation has taken a big bite out of my pension pot, which, taken with the collapse of the £, means in rough terms my projected actual income in € would be almost 50% of what it might have, a hard knock to recover from [:(]

Still, I'm 60% retired already (2 weeks on/3 weeks off [:D]) so I guess I can grin and bear working for a bit longer, cest la vie.....

 

[cooperlola]

From the "bouche du cheval" (DWP to you.)

How they work :

Form E106 is issued where a non-employed person transfers their residence to another EC country, but has 'residual' entitlement to Incapacity Benefit - Short Term (IBST). 'Residual' entitlement means that the contributions conditions governing the award of Incapacity Benefit are satisfied and if the customer had remained in the UK and claimed benefit that benefit would be payable. The duration of E106 cover equates to the duration of IBST had the person claimed the benefit.

E106 entitlement is awarded in line with 'Benefit Years' which run from the first Sunday of January to the Saturday prior to the first Sunday of January the following year.  We investigate the National Insurance (NI) contributions record of the 3 complete tax years prior to the Benefit Year in which a person leaves the UK. If those tax years show sufficient NI contributions E106 entitlement is given to the end of the Benefit Year in which the person leaves the UK.  When entitlement is established this way we would look to extend this by considering contributions paid in later tax years.  I have set out below an example to illustrate this.

A person leaves the UK on 1 July 2007 to reside in another EC country.  The person worked for an employer paying earnings related Class 1 NI contributions and ceased working on 30 June 2007. The 3 complete tax years prior to the current Benefit Year are those running from 6 April 2003 to 5 April 2006. Sufficient NI contributions were paid in those tax years giving initial entitlement to 5 January 2008 (end of the current Benefit Year). Sufficient NI contributions have also been paid in the 2006/2007 tax year to extend the E106 cover to the end of the next Benefit Year which is 3 January 2009.  If, in addition, the person had earned enough (approximately £4,350) to pay sufficient NI contributions from 6 April 2007 to finishing work on 30 June 2007 the E106 cover would extend to 2 January 2010. This would give total entitlement from 1 July 2007 to 2 January 2010.  It would not be possible to extend the cover beyond this point as NI contributions would need to be paid in the next tax year, which would not be possible as the person would by then have finished working and would have left the UK.

Forms E106 are issued under Article 19.1(a) of EC Regulation 1408/71.

Reading this Ernie, and paying particular attention to para 1 (about living in the UK) you may, or may not, be stuffed, Ernie.  Dunno.  I'm not convinced these would apply to anybody already on a worker's E106 (as I believe you to be?)

 

[AnOther]

Thanks Coops.

I think my workers E106 may be somewhat irrelevent to all this as I think that when I do stop work I will be entitled to an ordinary one just the same as any other person would. Maybe if 30 months took me past the 5 years they would limit it on the basis that I would be able to join the French system at that point but then that wouldn't matter would it.

I've a while to go yet though so plenty of time to sort it out and in fact it's probably academic as circumstances dictate that we'll probably have been in France for 5 years (or more [:(]) by the time I can pack up working.

 

[cooperlola]

Five years or no, Ernie, if you are entitled to any E form at all, the French won't let you pay into the system, they will insist that you use your UK entitlement.  For obvious reasons, if they can get the UK to pay, they will.  This is why, when people's E106s run out, CPAMs always need the "you have no more UK entitlement" letter, before letting people pay into CMU.[:)]  Cheaper for you too, so not academic at all.