JohnRoss Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 Checked tyre pressures today, as you, and found one low in pressure. Having changed it for the spare found a piece of wire, about 1.5mm, sticking in the inside of the tyre through the wall about 2cms down from the edge of the tread. If I take it to a tyre repair centre does French Law allow them to patch over the hole on the inside. Or if I can get a plug kit can I plug it and would this still be legal?.......................................JR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerekJ Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 If it's in the wall of the tyre I'm pretty sure they wouldn't plug it and neither should you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnRoss Posted April 29, 2009 Author Share Posted April 29, 2009 Ok Derek I thought that might be the case but as the hole is so small you would think a garage installed patch would be Ok or not?.......................JR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunday Driver Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 It is illegal to repair a puncture in a tyre other than in a specified area of the tread.In the UK, this is covered by British Standard BS159. As it's an EU wide regulation, I expect there is a French decree lurking somewhere.....[;-)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnRoss Posted April 29, 2009 Author Share Posted April 29, 2009 Thanks and I take that means only the tread and never a repair anywhere else?.......................JR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DerekJ Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 Apart from the legality if the hole is in the sidewall then I'd say it was plain dangerous to try driving on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron-sur-Marne Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 I was an engineer with Michelin for 42 years, and I can confirm the previous posts: car tyres can only be repaired in the tread area, and then to very strict limits. Don't even think about trying to patch it... there is too much flexion in the sidewall zone for any patch to last very long. (Note that agricultural and earthmover tyres can have sidewall repairs, but the speeds are much slower... 50 km/h max!). CheersRon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thebiga Posted April 29, 2009 Share Posted April 29, 2009 You can have what they call in the uk a major repair done by a specialist company. It is mostly done on agricultural and lorry tyres as they are so expensive and in general have more rubber to them anyway. You would probably not find a company here in france doing it and a normal repair other than in the tread is not allowed as others have said. I have had a tyre repaired here in france and if it was done like mine was I would not let them do a repair full stop. I had a plug put in a screw hole in a tyre and in the uk just plug repairs were banned a long time ago or certainly when i was in the tyre trade. You could have a plug patch where the plug filled the hole and a patch was on the end of it that stuck on the inside of the tyre. I think it was a mushroom patch as that what it looked like. But just a small hole not breaking any cords in the side wall could always be repaired by using a inner tube in the right sized tyre, some you couldn't but its always an idea. thats of course if they do them in france. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnRoss Posted April 29, 2009 Author Share Posted April 29, 2009 Ok folks and thanks for all the good advice. There is a large Euro Tyre centre near to the local town so maybe I will take it there tomorrow and see what they have to say. I am not sure what the structure of the side of these tyres are like, it is a Michelin Energy 205 60 R16 92H type.......................JR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bugsy Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 [quote user="Thebiga"]But just a small hole not breaking any cords in the side wall could always be repaired by using a inner tube in the right sized tyre, .....................[/quote]You are joking, right ?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just john Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 You really don't want a blow-out, think yourself lucky you found it before you experienced one; see Blow-out[:-))] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RicandJo Posted April 30, 2009 Share Posted April 30, 2009 Anytime I've ever damaged a sidewall it's written the tyre off.Sidewall repairs are simply not allowed.Good luck trying to get just one tyre replaced by the way.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thebiga Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 [quote user="Bugbear"][quote user="Thebiga"] But just a small hole not breaking any cords in the side wall could always be repaired by using a inner tube in the right sized tyre, .....................[/quote]You are joking, right ?.[/quote] Not joking atall. In the uk several years ago a lot of people it would seem were going around with a dart and sticking them in peoples sidewalls of tyres. And with the right sized inner tube it could be easily fixed and be safe ' No cords or anything had been damaged' I used to work for a very large well known tyre fitting company and this was perfectly safe to do in the right circumstances and the correct tyre. Some could not be fitted with tubes.I take it that you must be a tyre expert of some sort and that your going to tell me I don't know what i'm talking about.... What do you think they put in tyres before they were made tubeless, Before you say it apart from air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave21478 Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 Tubes were obviously the only option decades ago, but most modern tyres are unsuitable for running tubes. Modern tubeless tyres (the clue is in the name) have inner surfaces that are too ridged and too abrasive - an inner tube would be chaffed and burst in no time as the tyre flexes in use. Some manufacturers specifically forbid inner tubes to be used, and doing so can have very serious safety consequences. To be honest, I doubt if you would find a garage willing to fit an inner tube nowadays - obviously they would rather selll you a pair of new tyres, but from a safety point of view, most will refuse and almost nowhere keeps tubes in stock, especially not in the sort of sizes required for modern, low profile car tyres. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Théière Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 [quote user="dave21478"]Tubes were obviously the only option decades ago, but most modern tyres are unsuitable for running tubes. Modern tubeless tyres (the clue is in the name) have inner surfaces that are too ridged and too abrasive - an inner tube would be chaffed and burst in no time as the tyre flexes in use. Some manufacturers specifically forbid inner tubes to be used, and doing so can have very serious safety consequences. To be honest, I doubt if you would find a garage willing to fit an inner tube nowadays - obviously they would rather selll you a pair of new tyres, but from a safety point of view, most will refuse and almost nowhere keeps tubes in stock, especially not in the sort of sizes required for modern, low profile car tyres.[/quote]Seconded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnOther Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 I think there may be some misinterpretation of the term 'tubeless' which is in this instance is used as a description meaning that they do not require an inner tube. It is not necessarily an instruction as tubes may be fitted to 'tubeless' tyres but only with the approval of the manufacturer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just john Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 What is it you don't understand about damaged sidewalls and risk of tyre failure? for the sake of a few euro (alright, a hundred) it just isn't a calculated risk; just to put the frighteners on it, what do you think an Insurance assessor would say when viewing a damaged car with a failed tubeless tyre fitted with a tube? Of course it doesn't happen until it's too late for you . . . and maybe someone else.[:-))] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnOther Posted May 2, 2009 Share Posted May 2, 2009 Who is that aimed at John. Surely not me, I have advocated nothing but merely pointed out a simple fact [blink] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thebiga Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 When putting forward a answer to a question why is it that people cannot just put answers forward and not try to dumbdown what someone else has put. No need just put your answer across, no need for back stabbing, sly comments or I know best attitudes. best bet is get a life and stop trying to tell everyone that your right and they are wrong. These forums are all the same with a large number of people that don't get out much and sit behind a small screen and think they know it all. Not everyone can know it all and that goes for me also bur just answer the question and not let it turn into a heated debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just john Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 [:)][quote user="ErnieY"] Who is that aimed at John. Surely not me, I have advocated nothing but merely pointed out a simple fact [blink][/quote][quote user="Thebiga"]When putting forward a answer to a question why is it that people cannot just put answers forward and not try to dumbdown what someone else has put. No need just put your answer across, no need for back stabbing, sly comments or I know best attitudes. best bet is get a life and stop trying to tell everyone that your right and they are wrong. These forums are all the same with a large number of people that don't get out much and sit behind a small screen and think they know it all. Not everyone can know it all and that goes for me also bur just answer the question and not let it turn into a heated debate.[/quote]The difficulty of the forum and its written word is that there is no inflection to enable readers to be sure there is no hidden meaning or malice, especially, I avoid posting when things get personal and abhor some posters need to turn a post into slagging match. For my posts on this subject I have not sought to do this and apologise unreservedly if it seems that way in anyway to anyone. I think I have made similar comment before if you read previous posts of mine, and hopefully displayed a sense of humour occasionally[8-|]My advice has no basis other than my own previous experience; many moons ago when running an Esso site selling their own brand tyres, which were guaranteed against all road hazards including kerbs and punctures, their policy was never to attempt to repair damaged sidewalls or fit tubes or repair punctures outside the rolling width (ie not on tread rolling over the sides of the tyre); the tyre was always replaced with a new tyre making a 'wear charge' for the portion of tread used (I wish Esso still did this[:)]) Recently I took my MGB in for a slow puncture on the rear wheel having just paid for a set of new continentals, back to the tyre shop, they advised me that the 'puncture' was in the alloy wheel which had become porous (if anyone knows a solution to inner-coat the wheel or whatever please let me know) and so they had fitted the spare. I asked if they would fit a tube to the punctured wheel and they declined, advising me not to do this anywhere else since in their opinion fitting a tube to a tubeless tyre would invalidate my insurance. Blowouts are commonly caused by weakened tyre walls or running underinflated tyres ( .pistonheads.tyretalk) which might lead to loss of control with possible consequences[:-))]. The least I expect when I venture out on the road is to trust other motorists to be insured and to have maintained the safety of their car.Despite the majority of posters in reply to this thread recommending not to repair and continue using this tyre some other posters seem oblivious to the inherent risk, my advice was not meant in any other way than to avoid this risk.Hopefully John Ross will post what Euro Tyre centre advises. Happy motoring folks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnOther Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 No offence taken John but for the record, now that I know you are a fellow MGB owner, whatever you say in any and all future postings will be alright by me [:D][:D][:D]I have to say that I'm highly dubious about 'porous wheels'. I can imagine that a magnesium wheel might become so afflicted in time or a new alloy out of the factory be a bit iffy but for a modernish alloy to actually go porous must be almost unheard of and I'd be far more inclined to suspect a leak between the bead and the rim. It's obviously all to easy for a tyre fitter to fob you off with that excuse to save himself the bother of refitting it.What sort of wheels are we talking about BTW and critcally, did the alleged 'porosity' exist before you renewed the tyres ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just john Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 Hi ErnieY, thanks for the reply, the wheels are knock-on Minilites, which may have a percentage of magnesium (I'm not sure since both aluminium and mag alloy were available) they were once good but since they are now about 30yrs old and I have a spare the situation is not desperate at the moment, I believe they are still available for a kings ransom. I have been told that it is not uncommon for alloys to go porous, perhaps one of the metallurgists out there could advise, I did think there must be a simple coating solutions but have so many other things in my little life at the moment I have not got round to it. [:P]All suggestions welcome[:)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave21478 Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 re the porous wheels - assuming its not corrosion around the rim where the bead seats (which is quite common and easily cured by removing the tyre, and rubbing down the corroded area) then it is quite cheap and easy to "fix" by giving the whole internal rim area a thorough rub with coarse abrasive paper to provide a good key cleaning it scrupulously, then painting a very thin layer of fibreglass resin evenly over the inside of the wheel. Avoid putting it where the beads seat, but cover the rest of the wheel well. A thin, even layer is light enough not to affect the wheels balance, and assuming the wheel was cleaned and keyed thoroughly, it should stick on very firmly indeed. I have done this an a few sets of older alloy wheels and had about 75% success rate. It costs very little so is worth a shot, I would say. Those that it never worked on - its possible the problems were near where the tyre seats. I never wanted to risk covering this area, although I cant really give a good reason why not to.No doubt someone will come along telling me how this is suicide and will invalidate my insurance....[:P] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just john Posted May 3, 2009 Share Posted May 3, 2009 thanks for that Dave, obvious when you tink of it Dohhh, worth a shot when I get the wheels refinished, they are all looking a bit tired, and at least it's a bit less conspicuous than a shredded tube sticking out of a deflated tyre, (and I have seen a few of those)[Www]In fact I invented the worlds first space saver spare, the healey boot was so small I carried a tube instead of the spare, but never had a puncture so never tried changing tubes, ahh Dunlop Road speed RS5's the origin of the monika 'Squealey'[8-|] finally replaced with XAS's, edit: the point of that waffle was that those four patches the size of a palm were all that held a ton of metal sideways on the road and the difference between what was state of the art crossplies and next generation radials was both entertaining and staggering, todays tyres have moved on of course but still only four patches and all that hold you on the road . . .but I digress . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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