Living, but doing nothing in France

[andyh4]

Debra,

as I understand it, if you are earning money in the UK then it is either taxed at source (interest on accounts, dividends etc..) or you have to declare it to the UK tax man.  He will then decide how much tax (if any) has to be paid.

 

Where you live not important.  You are not however generally taxed on monies earned outside of the UK (although there are exceptions) and this has been the thrust of governments trying to close the tax loopholes of off-shore tax haven accounts.

 

This is in direct contrast to France where you are assessed for tax on your worldwide income (from all sources), but are provided with the safety net that you will not be taxed on income that has already been taxed by a country with which France has a double taxation treaty.

 

So UK rental income has to be declared to the UK tax authorities, who will assess it for UK tax.

UK rental income also has to be declared to the French tax authorities, making it clear that it has already been taxed in the UK since there is a double taxation treaty between the UK and France.

You have to declare the income however so that the French authorities can decide what tax rate you would pay on any income earned in France.

So for example if you earn 500000€ per year (I wish) and of this 480000€ is earned outside France but is covered by double taxation treaties, then the 20000€ you earn in France is taxed at the rate of a 500000€ earner and not a 20000€ earner.

 

Hope this helps to make things clearer.

[Teamedup]

Have I not understood?

You aren't trying to tell me that people who aren't retired and have income have to pay are you? Well good. I would hope that they do.

The CMU was introduced not too long ago as a safety net for those living in penury. Anyone earning over that amount pays.

 

I'm not really concerned that the government or anyone else choses to use the term CMU so loosely. And someone saying that they pay 1500 euros a year, well they have a good and proper income and you can ask anyone here, who would say that a person is entitled to CMU with such payments, can't think of one french person who would apart from some functionnaire following the 'textes'.

The health service after all has to be paid for.

[Linzi]

I am getting rather disheartened here.   There even seems to be some aggression creeping into the forum and it seems to me things are going off in all directions.  I still can't glean any idea of what I would be likely to pay with a UK rental income of say £600 per month and a French E-bayed income of say £200 per month.  It's mainly the Health contributions are are bugging me, as most of my income would be taxed in the UK, but declared on my French tax return which is fair enough.

Can anyone provide a simple answer to this?  Is anyone in the same position?  What do you pay, if you don't mind me asking)

Last try - thank you - Linzi (and can anyone recommend an English speaking French accountant)

[Debra]

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[Linzi]

Debra - you are SO patient with me and so very clear in your answers. It sounds to me that with an income from property of say £600 a month then, I would manage to live and eat - good enough for me!

I'd still like to E-bay though, as I have a small reputation for what I do and sell my handspun to lovely people from all over the world (I currently also have a small working wool shop and e-commerce site, although these would go) and feel it would be sad to lose sight of this!  So I would still be interested to hear from fellow E-bayers on this matter.

How about spinning lessons in exchange for cabbages?   Or organise a small craft group and teach in return for tea or something!   Or racing motorbike tours in exchange for petrol

Many, many thanks - Linzi

[LesLauriers]

Debra, you can go on line at www.impots.gouv.fr and if you head for "particulers" then inpots 2004, you can input your income and it will tell you how much you have to pay and what your RFR will be and social charges too.

You may have to play about with it, but it should give you an idea.

http://www2.finances.gouv.fr/calcul_impot/2005/

Your RFR by the way, is,roughly, total earned income less 30% plus unearned income, as the allowances for family numbers or maintenance payments for example only affect the tax payable and not the RFR.

Linzi, on income levels quoted you should have little to pay if anything, the ebay issue though is an interesting one. You can sell your used goods tax free, it is only when it becomes a business that it is taxable and cotisations become payable.

[Debra]

Thanks, LesLauriers,  does that site assume the income is earned in France?  Does pension income come under unearned income or earned income (taxed as earned income in the UK)?

[LesLauriers]

Yes, it is a simplified model. Pension is earned income and you will see the box for pensions, box AS or AO. Savings interest goes in box TS, remember tax free UK is taxable here, and enter gross amount as you will get it paid tax free in UK.

Total UK income goes in box TL.

Remember to enter all family details, number of children dates of birth etc.

You can use this to model for next year, allowances may rise slightly but you will get a good idea and discover your RFR figure for health.

[Debra]

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[LesLauriers]

Pension which is taxable in France is classed as a pension and you can deduct the 10% then 20% (subject to limits) before taxation. All UK income attracts CRDS at .5%.

[Bobdude]

[quote]That's my understanding, Linzi, and I also understand that income on your savings and rental income would be taxable in France, not the UK, since you would be resident in France. You may find you wil...[/quote]

Fraid not - If you are resident in France, you still have to submit a UK tax declaration for your rental income in the UK, which is taxable in the UK. Indeed, if you use a letting agent for your property in the UK, the agent is obliged by law to deduct the tax due from your rent and pay it direct to the Inland Revenue! You will need to complete forms from the Inland Revenue if you wish to receive your rental income without tax deducted and the Inland Revenue will send a certificate to your letting agent telling them so. Basically, if your tax affairs are all in order, and you don't owe the tax man anything in the UK, you will get permission to receive your rental income in full, but the Inland Revenue will send a yearly Self-assessment form to your French address. You also submit the rental income on your French tax form, but it is 'non-imposable' in France. (That's not to say that it isn't counted as income for other French cotisations/contributions etc).

[LesLauriers]

Haven't heard that pension is classed as earned interest before.

Your right, should have read income not interest, now edited - oops!

[Debra]

Hi Lurcher - thanks for that.  Don't know if you read the rest of the thread, but I already realised I was wrong there - I was having a tired and dipsy (read dozy, stupid...) moment.

[Bobdude]

Yeah - me too! You lot have been posting so quickly on here that I missed a page!

[Linzi]

[quote]Debra, you can go on line at www.impots.gouv.fr and if you head for "particulers" then inpots 2004, you can input your income and it will tell you how much you have to pay and what your RFR will be an...[/quote]

Merci beaucoup - things are becoming less daunting and 'claire' (maintenent, ma Francaise est terrible!).

I am now finding the will to go on.

I have booked flights to Limoges on 18th Septemebr for a few days and will be staying at the Jean d'Arc.  I will be concentrating on the outlying market towns/villages.  I think that if I find something I like and can be happy to wake up in, I will buy.

"Feel the Fear and Do it Anyway"

Many thanks - Linzi

[Patf]

Just to confirm that rent from UK property is taxed in UK. Fill in a self assessment form, claim allowances etc and pay tax to IR. You can do it online. If you use an agent, as said above he should deduct a percentage for tax and if too much IR will pay it back. You still need to fill in a UK tax return. Then include all this info in your french declaration. Pat.

[Athene]

[quote]Merci beaucoup - things are becoming less daunting and 'claire' (maintenent, ma Francaise est terrible!). I am now finding the will to go on. I have booked flights to Limoges on 18th Septemebr for a...[/quote]

Hi Linzi!

it is brrrrrr cold in winter there and it can worse than UK! Head South is my advice!

[Linzi]

[quote]Hi Linzi! it is brrrrrr cold in winter there and it can worse than UK! Head South is my advice![/quote]

Where then?  Is it a pin in the map jobbie?

Anyway - need somewhere I can buy cheaply initially, want to hang on to my home here and not take any debt on!

I know! the Antartic is 'South' should be cheap there . . .

[Debra]

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[Lorribee]

Weather what weather!

We are one hour from Limoges, leaving Cornwall to come here, finding the difference in summer temperatures hard going but really enjoyed the winter, the snow we had was much less than expected and log burner did sterling job, don't give up on the area too quick,Linzi, been down south too hot by half in Summer also houses not as reasonable priced, Welcome, enjoy your stay and worry about tax when you get here, we found local tax office, very helpful and very willing to look at your situation and tell you what was needed.He even went so far as to say he wished more expats would come in and have a talk save a lot of worry.

[Linzi]

[quote]Weather what weather! We are one hour from Limoges, leaving Cornwall to come here, finding the difference in summer temperatures hard going but really enjoyed the winter, the snow we had was much less...[/quote]

Thank you for your heartening message.

With the help of a lot of people on the forum, my research is now going in all the right directions (I hope) - just what I needed to start me off.  Even working my way through a 75-page tax document that Debra very kindly sent me!

I just find Limoges such an attractive area.  I'm not a sun-worshipper, city or a beach person; I am a green person.  I prefer trees, hills and water. Various things keep drawing me to the area of St Leonard de Noblat - I always end up back there if I am trawling the net.  I am a believer of 'when and if things are right' - the best things in my life have happened that way.  It's when I force things too much they go awry.

No - I think the termperature there will suit me just fine!

Very many thanks (didn't see a name!)

Linzi

 

[Linzi]

Doh - I can't even spell temperature in English - what chance in Frrrrrance!

[Julie Clare]

Hi,

This sort of falls under this topic. Can anyone tell me whether they get their winter fuel allowance from the UK when over 60 in France ?

Thanks

Julie

[Mikew]

WFA = yes if you have already received it the year before you move. Comes sometime in November.

Mike - North Charente

[Julie Clare]

Thanks Mike,

       Looks like we will have to leave here a bit later than we planned then !

Cheers

Julie