NEW BUILD HORROR

[woods2]

It is commonly believed that 'new build' homes are a soft option to renovation in France. I wanted to share our own 'new build' experience with other Forum members. We engaged one of the biggest and best-known builders of individual homes in France, and work started in June this year after a 10 month wait after signing the contract. Now (mid Sept), we have nothing but foundations. We have had just 8 days of work, and none at all for 2 months. Although we have been pressing the company at all levels, they keep lying through their teeth about 'restart dates'. The site manager has even told the macons that we hadn't paid for the work He is a nasty individual, who provoked a fight between workers on the site, requiring the presence of the gendarmes. The site is now legally considered to be 'abandoned', and we are making a claim against one of the insurance policies which the builder had to provide (garantie de livraison). They will appoint a new builder to complete if necessary. Our outlay to date is 40,000 Euros, or 25%.

What is most shocking about all this is the professional corporate image given by this company, which is now promoting itself to the UK market.

[0The Plan ManAll the best,<br><br>StewartddMMyyyy0Falseen-USAll the best,<br><br>StewartTrue]

Are you able to name names at all? - I would be very interested to know of such a lack of professionalism so that I can pass on corresponding advice to clients.

Let me share another new build horror that happened to owners of a holday home nearby. After completion of the build they moved in, furnished throughout etc. As it was only a second home, they could only visit occssionally. On each visit it smelled of damp. They investigated as best they could to no avail. They informed the builder, who said that it was due to the place being shut up in their absence.

Many months later, they were moving some furniture, leant against the wall and fell through it (or at least the drylining). It turned out that a plumber (sub-contractor) had failed to seal a joint properly, it had leaked continously, flowed under the parquest floor and been soaked up by the rockwool insulation in the drylining.

These things happen - what was scandalous was the way in which the contractors absolved themselves of any responsibility and planted their heads well and truly in the sand. I am not sure whether it ever got resolved.

It would be nice to know that there were efective safeguards that one could put into place for such an eventuality - if anyone knows one I would be very interested to know!

Renovation can also be fraught with problems, it has to be said. On the plus side, a client has just hacked off the crepi of a facade with a view to repointing, only to reveal an old, medieval window long since blocked up. A rare joy!

[woods2]

I can't name the company, but it consists of three words (the middle one is thematic to this forum) and it advertises in at least two UK based French Property publications.  It even has a stand at Olympia next weekend.  Sorry. That's all I can say!

Mike

[Viv]

Having seen similar houses being built for locals near us, I don't think you are that far behind schedule given that not a lot happens in July /August. You do unfortunately have to keep badgering these people, which is tricky if you are in the UK as we were when our house was being built.

I also know that a lot of these companies sub contract at every stage of the build, is it the subcontractor that has let you down? If so, have you make representations to the company with whom you have a contract?  Sorry if that's a stupid question!

[woods2]

My thanks to all the members who e-mailed me on this subject.  I didn't realise that so many non-French were into new builds!  Our site is still 'dead', now in the hands of the Building Trade Guarantee Fund.  A sorry state indeed for us and for one of France's biggest individual house builders.  As far as I know they haven't gone bust, but they might as well have done! 

On a light-hearted note, I looked again at the builders' catalogue today-very professionally presented.  It depicts the site manager as a keen young man wielding a laptop while chatting with a smile to his clients.  Our site manager bears a nasty scowl, is semi-literate and rarely hoists his 20-plus stone out of the car (just as well, as he has the most powerful B.O. I have ever experienced-it could knock out an army at 100 metres)!  I shouldn't let this get personal!  Mike.

P.S: The builder or its agent has a stand at the French Property Exhibition this weekend.  Wish I could be there to give them hell!

[richard.w]

If the guy is such a rotter why dont you spill the beans we can all hate him then  Iv been trying to work it out from the clue

"(the middle one is thematic to this forum) and it advertises in at least two UK based French Property publications.  It even has a stand at Olympia next weekend

But being a manual worker I dont know what thematic means

EDIT I think I may have worked it out from

www.french-property-news.com/fpn/septexhibitors.htm

If thematic means related to .I wish I could find my dictionary

[Quillan]

Moderator Hat OFF

I would love to know who they are to, can you PM me the name please.

Moderators hat ON

If anyone wants to know the name of the builder they can always PM Mr Woods and get it direct. As silly at times that it is you can't "name and shame" on the forum, it's against the Code of Conduct. Just thought I would mention it before somebody lets slip accidently.

Moderators Hat OFF

[ctc]

Hi, we are interested in finding a company for new builds in the Deux Sevres area.  We would be grateful for any recommendations.

[woods2]

I now find myself locked in a 'David and Goilath' battle with the M.D. of this company, who is obviously afraid of potential P.R. harm in his UK market.  He is so defensive of his defective employees-It's good that Management supports its staff-but in ALL circumstances.  Happily (for us), the builders' guarantee fund is taking the matter seriously!  And thank God I have at least a reasonable level of French-without it I would have been flattened!  Mike.

[P]

Mike, whilst it some cases it might be admirable to support ones staff there are also times at which just holding up your hands and saying 'we have screwed up on this one' can claw back a situation.

As for potential PR harm - in my view he is doing that by his actions. The situation has been created, you have publicised the problem and will have others thinking 'steer clear of this company'. However, if he had held his hands up you may have acted differently - still highlighting the problems but adding 'thankfully the company has taken responsibility for this and everything is back on track'.

If we decide to go down the new build route I will certainly avoid this company. If the MDs actions had been as above I might well have changed my mind - because things do not always go smoothly - but when they do not resolve the situation don't make it worse.

I assume you are at he point where you will welcome a new builder taking over.

Paul 

[Bobdude]

No doubt I will soon be told if this is not the case - but surely if you have a legally binding contract with the construction firm you are not allowed to continue the work with another firm until you get the go ahead from the court? A very similar situation occurred with a house we had built - not in France but in a country which follows the French legal system.

Would it not be the most logical and sensible way forward to sit down to talks with this firm and try to sort out the matter amicably, thus getting the house built without any more delays and expense?

[woods2]

We have already sat down and talked nicely to the company, after an earlier stoppage and abuse from the site manager (I think he's anti-British).  Unfortunately the promises made by the director on that occasion were not kept.  On a brighter note, work has just re-started on the project, but it's going to take a long time to regain our confidence!

[BJSLIV]

Unfortunately this situation is far from uncommon. You only have to search the French internet to find many similar cases, often with the same companies , or rather the subsidiaries of the same national groups. A similar picture arises on programmes such as Sans Aucun Doute.

It seems that one of the frequent problems is the same that  crops up time and time again on this site, ie finding artisans, and getting them to turn up consistently.

Even when things go well, as they have no real clout locally it can be hard to maintain continuity of progress, from one trade to the next. They may be the biggest at a national level, but  other local developers are often more consistent supplier of work and hence get greater priority.

When you consider how these national companies operate, offering to build their houses anywhere in France, they don't have their own teams everywhere  and sometimes the construction side cannot keep up with the , very professional, promises made by the sales team.

It also means that the legal process is often long and drawn out, because the company hasn't gone bust, in fact its very much alive, hence it is not a simple case of stepping in to take over an abandoned site.....

Incidentally what were the overall delivery times  given in the contract?

 

 

 

[Audois]

This doesn't suprise me at all I'm afraid.

Many of these companies, are national and are nothing but a sales facade; ie. they have a sales team but not a building team.  Instead they use 'local' builders to the site that they don't know, are unaware of the quality of workmanship, and often don't know the local mairies etc which causes a few too many problems. 

Once they've sold you the package, that's all they're interested in, you've signed the contract with them and they now have you firmly in their grasp financially!  It's a sad state of affairs ...

Woods2, I'd love a PM with the name please if you don't mind!

[Harley]

This story fills me with dread.  We have just signed a contract with a building company for our new house.  After two false starts, one with a company who were rumoured to poach their clients land before they bought it and one who were never on time for appointments outside the office(one of which we gave up on after two hours) and then added a substantial amount of money to the bill the day we were supposed to sign the contract etc etc.....

Our builder as we understand it are regional and not national and so far they have been very professional.  He even knows our bank manager!  I hope we are doing the right thing!  They can't all be bad.  Will let you know how we get on.

[David & Pam Dawson]

Very interesting to read about the new build nightmares. I have been dealing with a local builder in the Creuse area who has worked with me on a new design, shown me examples of previous build and given me names of previous customers to contact. I have purchased land, had the area checked by bore holes so that there should be no unexpected excavation surprises and am ready to go. So far so good.

He has now quoted me for the work. The Devis is showing TVA at 19.6% whereas I thought it was a reduced TVA on new build at around 5%? I am not a french resident and will continue to have the house as a second home on completion, with the intention of taking up permanent residence the following year.

Can anyone offer advice please?

[andyh4]

I thought the 5,5% was for renovation of existing habitable properties only.  I know (from personal experience) that it does not apply to renovation of barns converted to habitable use.  Also for the renovation, you have to have been living there/owner for 2 years.

[BJSLIV]

I can confirm that everything spent on a new build will attract full rate TVA at 19.6 %. France is the opposite of UK where new-build attracts zero VAT, repair full-rate.

You could reduce the impact by leaving some of the work for a period of two years after the completion is notified. Then things such as second bathroom , fitted kitchen, fitted wardrobes could be classed as renovation and attract low rate TVA. Roughing it for a couple of years  shouldnt be too hard especially if its only a second home.

The fly in the ointment is that the low rate may end this year.