Returning an old car to the UK.

[David]

Those of you who read this section will know that I have been thinking about selling my 12 year old UK car which is registered in France.  Something has been stopping me from going ahead as I really wanted to give it to my daughter in the UK, but she did not want it.

As women do, she has now changed her mind, and would like it.  However, she says that under new UK rules it is not possible to import a car older than 10 years into the UK, and she sites the UK government web site.

I have researched the web site and can find nothing to say that I cannot import a 12 year old ex UK car back into the UK.

I would be grateful for your advices as to whether my daughter or I am correct.

Many thanks,

David

[Alex H]

From http://www.dft.gov.uk/vca/other/faqs-vehicle-importi.asp

"

What are the most common problems I am likely to encounter when trying to import a vehicle?

• If your vehicle is left hand drive, it will need to be

  modified for use in the UK since we drive on the other side of the road

  to the Continent. This is likely to include; changing the headlamps for

  ones designed for use in Great Britain, the fitting of a rear fog lamp

  on the off-side (right hand side) of the vehicle, modification of the

  speedometer with a new face to include miles-per-hour markings. For

  vehicles from North America the lighting will need some modifications

  since different coloured lights to Europe are often used. If the vehicle

  is less than 10 years old, then the above modifications will need to be

  performed either as part of the Mutual Recognition process (see above)

  or before the vehicle undergoes SVA testing (see below), as applicable.

  If the vehicle is more than 10 years old the modifications are needed

  before the vehicle undergoes the MOT."

So it looks like you're correct then :-)

[AnOther]

Considering that it was a UK car originally there will be no problem whatsoever in taking it back and in all probability it will even get it's old number back !

The link given clearly appertains to foreign cars being imported to UK for the first time.

 

[Dave&Olive]

hi ok

                What side of the road do i drive on ?

  [IMG]http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j311/daveolive/white-trash-repairs-best-of-both-worlds.jpg[/IMG]

              Dave

[Alex H]

[quote user="AnOther"]

The link given clearly appertains to foreign cars being imported to UK for the first time.

 [/quote]

May be, but are you saying you can import an over 10 year old LHD, but not an RHD?

[AnOther]

[quote user="Alex H"]are you saying you can import an over 10 year old LHD, but not an RHD?[/quote]No, of course not.

The full quote form your link says:

"If the vehicle is less than 10 years old, then the above modifications will need to be performed either as part of the Mutual Recognition process (see above) or before the vehicle undergoes SVA testing (see below), as applicable. If the vehicle is more than 10 years old the modifications are needed before the vehicle undergoes the MOT."

and further on says:

"Likewise if a car or light truck is over 10 years old it will not need an SVA, since an MOT certificate is sufficient to register the vehicle."

Nowhere is there any discrimination between LHD or RHD and if you are reading the part which says "modified for use in the UK since we drive on the other side of the road to the Continent." to mean that then you are mistaken.

I reiterate that the procedures relate to foreign imports which a re-imported ex UK car is not.

[Sunday Driver]

I think you'll find that the procedures regarding these modifications apply to all foreign registered vehicles that are being imported into the UK, regardless of whether they are LHD or RHD or whether they were previously registered there.

David's 12 year old car is a VW Passat that is currently registered in France.  That makes it a foreign import that his daughter wishes to register in the UK.  If it is not currently configured for driving in the UK, then it will have to be modified as per the earlier link and verified through an MOT inspection.

As he originally owned the car in the UK before bringing it to France, then all that needs to be done to satisfy the MOT is to refit the original RHD headlamps and reconfigure the position of the rear fog lamp.  The speedo will still be the original - dual mph/kph - so there'll be no requirement to change it.

Once his daughter has the MOT certificate, she can then visit her local DVLA office to register it and obtain a V5C. 

 

[AnOther]

We are getting into semantics now.

Alex H went off a spurious tangent quoting regulations for a genuine foreign vehicle which a re-imported ex UK car is not. It is simply foreign registered and there is a big difference.

As you often say yourself, keep it simple [;-)]

[Alex H]

The regulations are there to cover all cases. Are not all regulations about semantics?

You are assuming because it has been registered in the UK before, it is not applicable to call it an import.

I am assuming that because you can import a 10 year old LHD car you can import a 10 year old RHD one.

No where in the document does it confirm either case (as far as I have read)

[Sunday Driver]

[quote user="AnOther"]

Alex H went off a spurious tangent quoting regulations for a genuine foreign vehicle which a re-imported ex UK car is not. It is simply foreign registered and there is a big difference.

[/quote]

So what is this big difference between a 'genuine foreign vehicle' which is foreign registered and an 'ex-UK car' which is foreign registered?  They will both be configured for use in their current country of registration and therefore both will require modification as necessary for use in the UK  - likely to include; changing the headlamps for ones designed for use in Great Britain, the fitting of a rear fog lamp on the off-side (right hand side) of the vehicle, modification of the speedometer with a new face to include miles-per-hour markings.

I do like things to be kept simple....[Www]

 

[AnOther]

[quote user="Sunday Driver"]So what is this big difference between a 'genuine foreign vehicle' which is foreign registered and an 'ex-UK car' which is foreign registered?[/quote]Not all vehicles will be of EU origin, I call that a big difference.

The

point I was trying to make, obviously poorly in some eyes, is that for the OP taking the car back to UK

and re-registering it will be an absolute doddle and may not even

require the lights changing as UK MOT stations will pass a French

registered car with deflectors.

Unfortunately, and with respect,

Alex H was unnecessarily complicating the issue both with his link and talk of LHD/RHD, 10 years etc. so like you I was trying to keep it simple [8-|]

[Alex H]

Perhaps, to keep it simple, you should refer back to the OP's actual question?

"However, she says that under new UK rules it is not possible to import a

car older than 10 years into the UK, and she sites the UK government

web site."

[AnOther]

OK, let's look at the question then.

"under new UK rules it is not possible to import a

car older than 10 years into the UK"

There are no 'new UK rules' nor will there be, the UK simply cannot unilaterally ban the importation of 10 year old + vehicles.

"and she sites the UK government

web site"

The OP did not specify which 'UK government web site' that information supposedly came from but it was not from your link unless it was being grossly misread.

You confirmed the OP was correct, I seconded it.

You then started talking about RHD v LHD, that's when simplicity took a back seat !

[Chancer]

I think the 10 year old part comes from the scope of the UK single vehicle approval legislation which is only applicable for vehicles under 10 years old, older than that and they cannot/will not be accepted for inspection/regisration under S.V.A.

In 1998 if my memory serves me right (it was in the early days of SVA) I started a ding dong of a battle with my local vehicle licensing office and the DVLA, I had previously registered kit cars and had just completed a motorcycle engined conversion on a previously unregistered Caterham 7 that was initially built in 1987, there was no way that it was going to pass an SVA without serious modifications and my only reason for wanting road registration at the time was because I had built it for endurance racing and the new series was only for road registered cars.

It took a long time and a lot of patience plus some guidance from my big sister on how to play one civil servant against another but I got there in the end, little did I know that it was going to stand me in good stead when I got to France [:D]

Several times the L.V.L.O. backed down and accepted it for registration subject to a visual identity check and each time they wnet back on the decision, during this time I had made my reservations to compete in a hillclimb in the Pas de Calais that I did with a group of friends every year, I decided to take a chance and drive there and compete in the unregistered vehicle, it was MOt'd and insured on the chassis number, driving that distance without plates wasnt on and in any case the ferry booking needed a reg number, I found that by removing one zero from the chassis number it made what appeared to be  legitamate vehicle registration number  from 1986, close enough to the vehicles age so I went ahead and made up some plates.

On my return to Dover the inevitable happened and I was pulled into the bay for a vehicle search and 20 questions, I said to myself "your luck has run out this time Chancer!" especially when he wrote down my reg number on his pad and went and tapped it into his computer terminal, I dug out my dossier from the bootbox containing all the exchange of letters and prepared to try and explain myself out of a very tricky situation but he just said "OK you can go now" [:-))]

I still dont know how or why the gods smiled on me that day but they usually seem to, the automatic number plate recognition system was already installed and I assumed that was why I had been pulled over.

[David]

[quote user="Sunday Driver"]

I think you'll find that the procedures regarding these modifications apply to all foreign registered vehicles that are being imported into the UK, regardless of whether they are LHD or RHD or whether they were previously registered there.

David's 12 year old car is a VW Passat that is currently registered in France.  That makes it a foreign import that his daughter wishes to register in the UK.  If it is not currently configured for driving in the UK, then it will have to be modified as per the earlier link and verified through an MOT inspection.

As he originally owned the car in the UK before bringing it to France, then all that needs to be done to satisfy the MOT is to refit the original RHD headlamps and reconfigure the position of the rear fog lamp.  The speedo will still be the original - dual mph/kph - so there'll be no requirement to change it.

Once his daughter has the MOT certificate, she can then visit her local DVLA office to register it and obtain a V5C. 

[/quote]

SD,

I do hope that you are keeping well, and that you and your wife are fully recovered.

Many thanks for your assistance on this thread.

We are now back north and Daughter has finally decided to come across to collect the passat, arriving Friday the 21st October - at last !

The UK insurance and MOT is sorted out, as is the fitting of the UK headlights.

I have been checking the forms needed and have downloaded form V62, which seems to be needed to obtain a form V5C.

I have one problem with form V62, in that in question 1, there are only seven boxes for the vehicle registration number, whereas the French registration has eight numbers.  Do you think I should insert the French number with the last digit outside the boxes, and the UK number in section 3?  Or should I enter the original UK number here, and enter the French number in section 3?

Many thanks for your help.

David

[AnOther]

V62 is the wrong form. It is for a UK registered car where you don't have the V5.

You need form V55/5

http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum_dg/groups/dg_digitalassets/@dg/@en/@motor/documents/digitalasset/dg_199220.pdf

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring/BuyingAndSellingAVehicle/ImportingAndExportingAVehicle/DG_4022583

EDIT: The hoops you will have to jump through http://www.nidirect.gov.uk/inf148_ni_-130308.pdf

[Sunday Driver]

David

The form V62 is only to be used when applying for a replacement V5C for an existing UK registered vehicle where the original has been lost, stolen, defaced or destroyed.

Your daughter will need a form V55/5 'Application for a first licence for a used motor vehicle and declaration for registration'.  It's a two part carbonised form which isn't available for download but it's included in the import pack which she can obtain by phoning Swansea.  The pack contains all the documentation required, including the usual customs declaration for imported vehicles.

Edit:  AnOther beat me to it.......[;-)]

 

[David]

Many thanks to both of you for your very kind and rapid replies.

Thanks also to SD for the explanation of how to get the correct form.

As always this forum is of wonderful assistance.

David