nomoss Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 I was in Copenhagen last week, and have an opportunity to buy a classic car in Denmark, which was previously registered in Germany.The car is owned by a Danish dealer, who is licenced to hold it in bond, pending sale and registration in Denmark (involving payment of 180% registration tax on its customs value) or sale without registration to a collector, or for export. It has no licence plates.He tells me that he can get Danish export/customs/temporary plates for it, but that these would have to be surrendered on leaving Denmark for Germany, when I would have to put it on German temporary plates to drive it to France.Can anyone tell me:1) If it is correct that I would have to surrender Danish temporary plates on arrival in Germany, or could drive on to France with them.2) If I have to surrender the Danish plates, can I get German temporary plates at the border, and would these have to be surrendered on arrival in France?After so many years of the EU, surely these procedures have been sorted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pickles Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 Try this crowd (found from internet search, I haven't used them) :http://www.export-plate.com/startseite.htmlSince it was previously German registered, it should have all the German documentation to enable you to get the German transit plates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyh4 Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Assuming you are issued with German export plates, they are valid for 14 days and do not need to be surrendered at the French border. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomoss Posted November 5, 2014 Author Share Posted November 5, 2014 Thank you both for your replies.I don't think I could use the export plate agents, as I wouldn't have the original papers until I bought the car, and that would be a bit late to start the process.I have not sighted them, but assume the dealer has them, as he gave me photocopies, and they would be needed to register the car in Denmark if he sold it there. I can ask my son, who lives there, to check.The information that German export plates are valid for 14 days is helpful; that should be plenty of time to get a car to France.I am now wondering why Danish export plates should not have a similar validity. The dealer told me they would be taken at the border, but he brings cars in from Germany, not the other way, so could be mistaken. I recall someone on this or another forum had some experience relevant to cars in Denmark, so will ask my original question there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnOther Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Pick it up by trailer or have it transported at least onto French territory.I believe that Denmark is a very unfriendly place for importing cars and is quite possibly the reason the car in question hasn't been registered there, they have been in trouble with the EU over it.Export plates can only be issued to car already registered in that country which this one is not.Alternatively look for a similar car from somewhere else ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomoss Posted November 5, 2014 Author Share Posted November 5, 2014 It would be no problem given unlimited cash, but those days are gone, and I don't even have licence to pull a big trailer any longer.The car is extraordinary, and not that expensive apart from the problems, but seems beyond my reach in that strange country, where it seems destined to stay.I had a similar situation in Mallorca a few years back, when I was unable to get a damaged orange Porsche Targa from a breaker. Legally it had to be crushed and there was no way around it. It finished up as a cube on the way to the mainland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pickles Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 [quote user="nomoss"]I don't think I could use the export plate agents, as I wouldn't have the original papers until I bought the car, and that would be a bit late to start the process.[/quote]Not necessarily (?). Buy the car, have the dealer hold on for the few days that it will take to get the German transit plates (the documents could be sent straight from Denmark), then drive to the border on the Danish export plates, put the German ones on (the length of validity and insurance can be 14 days, or a month, or longer), then drive across Germany to France, preferably avoiding Belgium (I am led to believe that Belgium has a problem with these plates, but I hesitate to believe it). [quote user="nomoss"]I have not sighted them, but assume the dealer has them, as he gave me photocopies, and they would be needed to register the car in Denmark if he sold it there. I can ask my son, who lives there, to check.[/quote]Although your son can't register it for himself, presumably he could act as the receiving address for the German transit plates? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyh4 Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 [quote user="nomoss"]I am now wondering why Danish export plates should not have a similar validity. The dealer told me they would be taken at the border, ....[/quote]I suspect that the reason is very straightforward. As you noted the sales tax on cars in Denmark is very, very high. This tax is avoided if a car is exported. To export it you get export plates. But how to prove that the vehicle has actually been exported, and therefore does not need to be heavily taxed?Answer: recover the plates as the vehicle is being exported. If the plates are not recovered, the vehicle is still in Denmark and so wheels are set in motion to find it and its owner.The same tax level does not apply anywhere else in the EU (AFAIK) so such extreme measures are not needed elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnOther Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 As I understand it the issuing of transit plates by Germany deregisters it from their books in which case I can't see how or why they would issue new ones to a car which, as far as they are concerned, no longer exists.Similarly with Denmark, I imagine export plates are only appropriate for a vehicle which is registered there or possibly just to drive to the border.Was a time when temporary French WW plates would have served the purpose but that route was closed off when the new registration plate system was introduced.If trailering is not an option having it shipped over to UK and registered there first would solve the problem.Why not join a local forum and ask there ?[url]http://www.expatexchange.com/denmark/liveindenmark.html[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pickles Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 [quote user="AnOther"]As I understand it the issuing of transit plates by Germany deregisters it from their books in which case I can't see how or why they would issue new ones to a car which, as far as they are concerned, no longer exists.[/quote]I suspect that what is happening is that the dealer/agent is re-entering/entering the vehicle onto the German system in order to issue the plates. IIRC, the German system still issues plates based on the locality of the residence of the owner, and they change every time the owner changes. There appears to be anothe crowd who are providing 4-day German transit plates, delivered to anywhere in the EU, and requiring only COPIES of the relevant documentation:http://www.transit-plate.com/sofunktionierts.htmlThere is an interesting disclaimer at the bottom of the page, which seems to say "use these at your own risk"!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnOther Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Looks very iffy to me, there appears to be no such thing as EU Directive C68/2007 and research on that reference reveals only this resolution which has nothing to do do with the subject.[url]http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:32007G0324(01)&from=EN[/url] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pickles Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 [quote user="AnOther"]Looks very iffy to me, there appears to be no such thing as EU Directive C68/2007 and research on that reference reveals only this resolution which has nothing to do do with the subject.[url]http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/PDF/?uri=CELEX:32007G0324(01)&from=EN[/url][/quote]When I searched the ref C68/2007, I came across a German language EU document that seemed to be relevant. The English version is belowhttp://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=uriserv:OJ.C_.2007.068.01.0015.01.ENGThe reason that you came up with the EU Council resolution on a Strategy for a Secure Information Society in Europe was that that was passed on the same date and is no 2007/C68/01 whereas the relevant one is 2007/C68/04.It's just the EU Commission's interpretative communication on procedures for the registration of motor vehicles originating in another Member State. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnOther Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 Thank you Pickles.From reading that document it would seem that they are using parts of clauses 4.1 and 4.2 to justify issuing what are unquestionably completely unofficial plates to satisfy the need for a vehicle to display something hence the disclaimer.Personally I don't think I'd be comfortable driving a car under those circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pickles Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 [quote user="AnOther"]From reading that document it would seem that they are using parts of clauses 4.1 and 4.2 to justify issuing what are unquestionably completely unofficial plates to satisfy the need for a vehicle to display something hence the disclaimer.Personally I don't think I'd be comfortable driving a car under those circumstances.[/quote]The more you look into this subject, the more you realise that the car registration requirements of certain countries are actually a major barrier to cross-border purchases of second-hand cars by ordinary citizens as opposed to professionals. The number of times when one has to say "the best way to bring in that vehicle is on a trailer" rather than being able to drive it across under its own steam is indicative of a problem.Eg: importing into the UK: we have no transit plates and if you've brought a vehicle to a UK port on such plates then technically you must then put it on a trailer to get it to your home in the UK because we have no period of grace for re-registration.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomoss Posted November 6, 2014 Author Share Posted November 6, 2014 [quote user="Pickles"] ......................................................... importing into the UK: we have no transit plates and if you've brought a vehicle to a UK port on such plates then technically you must then put it on a trailer to get it to your home in the UK because we have no period of grace for re-registration..[/quote]Many years ago British "Q" plates and corresponding temporary documents were available for a modest fee.We obtained a set from the AA at Dover Port for our car on German "Z" plates, after it had been refused entry into Spain.Does this facility still exist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pickles Posted November 6, 2014 Share Posted November 6, 2014 [quote user="nomoss"][quote user="Pickles"] ......................................................... importing into the UK: we have no transit plates and if you've brought a vehicle to a UK port on such plates then technically you must then put it on a trailer to get it to your home in the UK because we have no period of grace for re-registration..[/quote]Many years ago British "Q" plates and corresponding temporary documents were available for a modest fee.We obtained a set from the AA at Dover Port for our car on German "Z" plates, after it had been refused entry into Spain.Does this facility still exist?[/quote]I believe that this no longer exists in the way that you may have obtained them before. Q plates now require the vehicle to go through an SVA test, so can't be obtained in advance. There's no real problem exporting cars from the UK as such (either new VAT free or used), just in importing second-hand cars under their own steam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nomoss Posted November 7, 2014 Author Share Posted November 7, 2014 [quote user="Pickles"] Q plates now require the vehicle to go through an SVA test, so can't be obtained in advance. There's no real problem exporting cars from the UK as such (either new VAT free or used), just in importing second-hand cars under their own steam.[/quote]Thanks. Life doesn't get any simpler, does it?Not only were we able to get Q plates on demand, but we were given little Union Flag stickers saying "Visitor to Britain" to put in our rear windows to exempt us from Road Tax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerdesal Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 Life certainly doesn't get simpler.A few years ago we imported a car from the UAE, as returning residents, it was a Range Rover on Dubai Export plates.Collected it at Felixstowe, customs inspection without problem, no mention of Q plates needed. We just drove it away.Registered it next day at DVLA in Swansea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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