Changing cars....insurance question...

[Harvey]

I am having a bit of a panic.....I bought a car yesterday that is in England and leave my house at 6am for the ferry....I emailed my Bank(my car is insured with them) yesterday with all the details of the new car, make model, registration number, engine size, value and time I will be collecting the car.....ending the message saying i would call in today to make sure everything is ok.....It was only as I was leaving I realised it is 14th July and the Banks are closed....I can I presume, always dangerous, that everything will be ok.......I can't remember what happened the last time I changed cars.....any suggestions????

[EuroTrash]

I would suggest, cross your fingers firmly that (a) nothing untoward happens en route (b) you've sent them everything that they need in order to set up the new policy and (c) someone picked up your email and dealt with it before they went home yesterday. As you say they'll be closed today and they won't be open for business before 5am French time tomorrow.

[dave21478]

No carte verte, no provisional contract, no confirmation that they even can or will insure the car, not even confirmation they have received your email......

yeah, you are not insured.

You can buy a single day (or up to a couple of months) cover for your journey.

http://www.assurance-voiture-temporaire-provisoire.com/m-index.html

There are plenty of other companies that offer this too. Google "assurance temporaire" for more names, but check that it is all done on line....some require you to call them and email copies of documents etc. The one I listed above is all online and instant.

[Chancer]

And to add to that you have e-mailed your bank who is not the insurer, assuming they do bother to read your e_mail the chances of anyone actioning it in the holiday period and of them finding someone at the insurance company to respond is rather long odds.

 

good to know that there are some entrepeneurial types around though, I will bookmark that web insurer.

[Chancer]

Well I am blown away Dave[:-))][:-))]

 

A French insurers website that actually does give you a price rather than tell you to ring them, not only that one that only asks for the relevant info and not the ins and outs of a ducks a******e, one that really does what it says on the tin, a devis in a few clicks.

 

A good price too, a weeks temporary insurance for €50

 

There is hope for France yet, or is it in Belgium, or Holland, or Germany or...........................................????

[dave21478]

I have no idea where they are based, but have used them several times. Done in a few clicks, print out the carte verte straight away, no hassle, no having to explain your last 7 years driving history and reasonable pricing. They will even cover foreign registered cars without batting an eyelid.

[AnOther]

Another one: http://mon-assurance-temporaire.fr/

There is another factor to consider: road tax.

Even though you may be immediately exporting the car as a buyer you still have to tax it yourself before you can legally drive it on UK roads.

[Pierre ZFP]

Don't you get a period of grace for that?

[EuroTrash]

If this is a UK reg car there's going to be a problem if the MID insurance database is showing it as uninsured, because then the ANPR cameras will flag it up automatically. If challenged, which if the OP is travelling via Dover is likely to happen inside the port if not before, the OP won't be able to provide any documents to show he is insured (if indeed he is), and won't be allowed to continue his journey. Hopefully he took advice and got temporary insurance.

[AnOther]

Not so.

The system specifically provides that foreign insurance can be used when a non UK resident is exporting a car.

Irritatingly the MIB have upgraded their website so my bookmark no longer works and of course it's now it's impossible to find anything on the 'improved' site but here is a link to the document which I had saved locally.

http://s000.tinyupload.com/index.php?file_id=62985355766637050621

Furthermore the MIB database is not in real time and it can take many days for the sellers cancelled or amended policy to show up in a search and ANPR cameras cannot flag it prior to that.

[PaulT]

and the period of grace for road fund licence is a big fat zero. The normal way of dealing with an untaxed vehicle is to impound it - cost of recovery £100 plus and £12 per day storage.

[Pierre ZFP]

Didn't know that

So if the car needs an MoT, you can't drive it to a garage or MoT centre to get the certificate so that you can road tax it?

A bit Catch 22 methinks

[EuroTrash]

"The system specifically provides that foreign insurance can be used when a non UK resident is exporting a car."

Yes it can be - but if you don't have any documents to prove that you have foreign insurance, you might find it difficult.

As said, if it is showing uninsured on MID then you may be challenged, especially if you use Dover ferryport which has ANPR cameras, and if you are challenged you'll need to satisfy them that you are insured before they let you go. What's he going to show them, if he hasn't had any response to his email? Which is why I said, I hope he used the link suggested, got temporary insurance and printed off his cover note.

[PaulT]

Quote:

'So if the car needs an MoT, you can't drive it to a garage or MoT centre to get the certificate so that you can road tax it?

A bit Catch 22 methinks '

A difference between a period of grace and taking a car for an MOT.

The rules state something like 'a vehicle can be driven to an approved MOT station for a prebooked MOT'. It makes no mention of being able to drive it backso presumably if it fails it needs to be left for repair and when the car has an MOT that it is taxed before driving it home.

[dave21478]

Since continuous insurance rules were intoduced, MOT and insurance are no longer checked or even required when purchasing road tax.

Road tax is also no longer transferrable after a sale, so when buying a car the tax theoretically expires at handover and the new owner is required to tax it to drive away, which can now be done over the phone or online. The reality is that the previous owners tax will remain in place until the V5 lands in Swansea and Iwan gets his finger out and enters the change of keeper - during this period the car will still show as taxed on ANPR so gives plenty of time to drive it home after purchase.

As for insurance, the database is rarely updated in realtime so the previous owners cover will likely still show up on ANPR for a few days. Whether you choose to take this risk is up to you. Obviously a policy covering the new owner would need to be in place for third party risks at least, but a French policy will obviously not go on the UK database.

In reality, road police patrols are rare and while there is ANPR at the ferry terminal its more to do with tracking movements and matching cars to pre booked ferry tickets than catching road tax evaders.

I regularly pick up UK cars on temporary French insurance and have never had a problem, but I always have a carte verte with me in the car to prove insurance should the need arise.

[AnOther]

[quote user="dave21478"]The reality is that the previous owners tax will remain in place until the V5 lands in Swansea and Iwan gets his finger out and enters the change of keeper - during this period the car will still show as taxed on ANPR so gives plenty of time to drive it home after purchase.[/quote]Not necessarily, the seller can phone DVLA and cancel the tax at the instant of handover and if that occurs on or about the last day of the month will be very keen to do so as any refund due is counted in whole months so if it's left to the 1st of the next month they've lost a month's worth.

That's a nice little earner for DVLA because as I say if you cancel at any time during the month you get no refund for that but the buyer has to pay from the beginning of the month so DVLA get it twice.

[EuroTrash]

"Since continuous insurance rules were intoduced, MOT and insurance are no longer checked or even required when purchasing road tax. "

??? I think they are though. The checks are automatic and invisible these days but I don't think it would be possible to tax a car that didn't have MOT and/or insurance. Computer would say No.

As regards insurance, motor traders normally update the list of vehicles "on risk" on their trade policy on a very regular basis, because they need to keep within the agreed total stock value and if they don't take vehicles off risk when they're sold, they won't be able to add their new stock as it comes in. If it was a private sale then this won't apply of course.

ANPR cameras at ferry ports most certainly can lead to the police pulling you to one side and informing you that your car is showing as uninsured. Ask me how I know :-(

[AnOther]

MOT maybe but insurance I'm not so sure, the reason I say that is that is because DVLA told me so !

The last car I was thinking of buying in UK was SORN'd but had a current MOT, I wanted (needed) to use French insurance to drive it but clearly that was never going to show up on the database so I phoned DVLA to ask what I should do and was told specifically that proof of insurance was no longer required for tax purposes and that if I did buy the car I could tax it either online or over the phone with no problems.

I didn't buy the car in the end so never had occasion to put it to the test.

Maybe the database is interrogated after the event or maybe they just rely on ANPR, I don't know, ANPR was obviously judged sufficiently widespread and efficient for them to have done away with the tax disc so why not ?

[Department71]

Don't forget the other problem that may arise, seller has purchased a new car then sells the old one privately, he has already swapped his insurance over to the new vehicle, so now the old car has no insurance listed for it.

[EuroTrash]

When you used to buy a tax disc online, it was an automated system and you used to key in all the digits and request to pay for your road tax. The vehicle was identified (reg no, make and model) and you confirmed that you were buying tax for the correct vehicle. You were then asked to wait while checks were carried out, and a few seconds later they said that you could proceed with the transaction and took your card details. Presumably, if the records showed no MOT, or I always assumed no insurance tax, you would not have been able to proceed.

ANPR is just an extra tool, what they rely on is the database itself. If your car is road taxed but not insured the database flags it up and they send out fines automatically. It doesn't have to be caught on ANPR.

[Harvey]

Goodness...thank you everyone for your replies.... Just to let you know...everything was fine...once I was on the boat my Bank Manager sent me an email, he asked for more information about the car, which I was able to give. I had to pay the Garage for the road tax as I was driving in UK for another week. Once I have put the car on French plates.....I will SORN it.

[EuroTrash]

Once you have got a carte grise and put the car on French plates you will have completed the export process and the car will no longer be subject to the UK registration system, its UK registration will be cancelled and no further tax will be due (a car is only registered in one country at a time). So you won't be able to SORN it even if you wanted to.

But just for the record, a UK registered car can only legally be SORN'd if it's kept in the UK and not used on any public roads.