Caravan - where/how can I use it?

[tasng4]

We're English and have lived in France for 6 years. We've just bought an English caravan and are about to start the importing process (we've imported 6 cars and are ok with the red tape). We will be using the caravan (weight 800kg) with the towing car's plaque and have insured it using the caravan chassis number (we are aware of the WW provisional plaque system but this doesn't work for us as we're still waiting for UK technical papers)

SO now to my questions

1.- throughout France you see motor homes parked at the side of the road and in Aires but not so often caravans. Why is this? Is it because there are different regulations for caravans? Or is it because motor home owners are more adventurous and happy to spend a night at the side of the road and most people with caravans prefer to go to recognised sites? We wouldn't be wild camping in in aires de chainages but there are often very large lay-bys with toilets & cafes.

2 - In many villages & towns the mayor provides facilities for motor homes to stay one or two nights, does anyone know if these areas are open to caravans.

Finally - if anyone reading this has successfully imported a UK caravan into France would they please get in touch as it'd be nice to have a contact whose done it.

Thanks a bunch.

[Benjamin]

We have a motorhome and visit France regularly.

The aires that you mention are exclusively reserved for camper cars. One of the directories is called " Aires de Services Camping-Car". Caravans are not allowed.

The designated spaces in some villages are also reserved for camping cars. Why caravans are excluded I have no idea.

We have also stopped off in villages, often near the "stade" as well as motorway service areas (hoping a lorry with a refridgeration unit operating doesn't turn up in the middle of the night) and supermarket car parks. We are also sensible and get a "feel" for the place before we stop.

[idun]

I don't think that you can put your french car's number plate on your caravan to drive in France, I personally don't think that it is legal in France, as caravans have their own plates. Has your french insurer said that this is OK?

I sort of understand why motor homes are given such easy access, as they can simply drive off, whereas caravans can't.

I would imagine that you should use sites with a caravan. There are enough problems at the moment, as I am sure that you are aware with caravans and how do the authorities distinguish between yourselves and travellers????

[woolybanana]

My understanding is that UK caravans cannot be registered in France because the door is on the wrong side and therefore dangerous.

[Jay]

[quote user="woolybanana"]My understanding is that UK caravans cannot be registered in France because the door is on the wrong side and therefore dangerous.[/quote]

Rubbish, no doubt Sid or someone will be along soon to tell you how to register it.

[EuroTrash]

Personally I wouldn't risk towing an 800kg caravan using the same plate as the French towing car. A caravan needs its own registration number and carte grise so using it without is in effect like using an unregistered vehicle and putting another vehicle's plates on it, might be a bit of a red rag to the gendarmes.

As for parking by the roadside, I'm not sure. Quite often communes don't allow motorhomes or caravans to park by the roadside in any case, often there is a sign up as you enter the commune or if not you have to check the regulations. In communes where parking is not réglementé, or on main roads outside of communes, what I have been told is that a motorhome has the right to park overnight because there is no law against vehicles parking so they can't stop you, but you are not allowed to camp, i.e. you are not allowed to put out an awning or anything that extends beyond the van's footprint, that would make it camping as opposed to parking. Not sure how this would apply to a caravan. (edit - have a vague recollection of this being discussed and someone saying that a caravan is a trailer and therefore subject to different rules than motor vehicles as regards parking - if you want to look into it, this might be somewhere to start;)

I have a feeling that the same rule applies to some if not all aires de camping cars in that overnight parking is authorised but they are not an authorised campsite. It is not that strict and of course people sit outside their vans, and sometimes people do put awnings out (but I never put mine out unless a lot of other people have and it is obvious that on that particular aire it is OK) but in 15 years of motorhoming I have seen maybe 2 or 3 caravans on aires. So even if it is technically allowed, I think you might feel the odd one out in a caravan, and I hate to say it but I have a feeling the camping car community might take a dim view, especially on busy aires where there isn't always room for all the motorhomes that want to be there. (There is a kind of fraternity amongst camping caristes, you may have noticed that camping cars wave when they pass each other on the roads whereas they don't wave at caravans.) Plus in any case, the aires have mostly been set up as a result of discussion between the motorhome federation and the commune and they are specifically geared up for motorhomes, with the parking bays designed for motorhomes, water points designed for filling motorhomes, waste disposal grids for motorhomes to drive onto, etc, and many of them don't provide overnight hookups, which I believe most caravans need.

Sorry if this all sounds a bit negative but I don't think you will actually find it any great loss if you don't use the aires. Municipal campsites are excellent, most communes have one and generally they only cost a few euros, not much more expensive than the aires and far better facilities. I think part of the reason camping cars use aires is simply to be amongst other camping cars. I also recommend the Camping à la Ferme network, there are some great sites, can be very inexpensive and usually very friendly.

Enjoy your van, don't know whereabouts in France you are but I think Brittany is probably my favourite place to explore.

[woolybanana]

[quote user="Jay"][quote user="woolybanana"]My understanding is that UK caravans cannot be registered in France because the door is on the wrong side and therefore dangerous.[/quote]

Rubbish, no doubt Sid or someone will be along soon to tell you how to register it.
[/quote]

I am happy to be proved wrong on this matter but perhaps Mr Jay you might learn to be a little more polite!

[EuroTrash]

I have seen UK motorhomes that have been registered in France despite the door being on the 'wrong' side. Don't know about caravans but logically, why would it matter, people don't travel inside the caravan on the roads and there is no right and wrong side on a campsite.

[Jay]

[quote user="woolybanana"]

[quote user="Jay"][quote user="woolybanana"]My understanding is that UK caravans cannot be registered in France because the door is on the wrong side and therefore dangerous.[/quote]

Rubbish, no doubt Sid or someone will be along soon to tell you how to register it.

[/quote]

I am happy to be proved wrong on this matter but perhaps Mr Jay you might learn to be a little more polite!

[/quote]

I wasn't being impolite, just stating the fact that your post was totally inaccurate. If you have no knowledge of the subject why bother posting?

The OP might wish to read this thread.........    http://services.completefrance.com/forums/completefrance/cs/forums/2768731/ShowPost.aspx

[woolybanana]

My belief was that UK caravans could not be registered here, as was the situation, I understand, when I first came to France some 17 years ago.

[Lehaut]

We live in Normandy and have a French camping car which we have used for over 10 years. The vast majority has been "wild" camping, on cliff tops, beaches, forests, motorway service areas etc. Have seen caravans in the latter, rarely the others. Two sites I have found quote the same interpretation of the law in France, Worth a look.

http://www.lecampingsauvage.fr/legislation.html

As a previous poster said, Brittany is fantastic, clearly marked where its not allowed and we have never been troubled in other areas. Spent a night at Cap Fréhel a week ago, shared the parking with a German Mercedes 911 4x4 army lorry. The sleeping part was a converted nuclear shelter command post. The local police drove past us three times during our stay!

[sid]

Well, as Jay rightly predicted, here I am to tell you that UK caravans CAN be registered in France. We have a 25-year-old caravan which I successfully registered a few years ago, and I've seen many others. The door is on the left side, as is normal in UK. The regulations for registration in France are all about conformity with European standards for safety (lighting, braking etc), and for any modern caravan the process is likely to be much easier. As with most French bureaucracy it's just a case of finding out what the rules are, and patiently and steadily working your way through them, without trying any clever shortcuts.

A caravan of 800kgs will need its own registration (anything over EDIT,  500kgs PTAC, in fact). You cannot use the UK system of adding a plate with the same registration as the towing vehicle.  (EDIT Sorry, the 750kg limit is for driving licence category)

The route you take will depend on what documentation you have for the caravan, and the ideal is to obtain (if you haven't already) a Certificate of Conformity from the UK manufacturer. My caravan is a Lunar and I found the company to be very helpful, providing documentation in English and French for partial conformity, the caravan having been manufactured well before the European standards were set out.

I prepared a dossier and took this to my local DRIRE office for an initial consultation. The guy was very helpful and listed the items he would need and the modifications I would have to make to the caravan. The mods included new additional side running lights (these are now standard but were not fitted in 1989), new marker reflectors along the side of the caravan, and a new identification plate bearing the chassis number, unladen weight and max laden weight fixed to the A-frame on the RIGHT side (visible from that side).

After completing the mods I had to take the caravan to Bureau Veritas for a gas, electrics and ventilation inspection, and then to the DRIRE testing station for a visual inspection and brakes check.  Both inspections were nerve-wracking but in fact were completed very quickly by competent and friendly staff.

Armed with pass certificates, it was a case of waiting for final approval form DRIRE and collecting the new carte grise.

There were costs involved, which I don't have to hand right now but I can dig out, totalling about 500€ I think. You'll also need a temporary registration, valid for 15 working days I think, in order to be able to tow the caravan to it's various inspections. You'll see that this requires some planning in order to get it all done in time.

Don't forget that you cannot tow a foreign trailer with a French registered vehicle!! I have the impression that you may not be aware of the regulations.

If you need further information you can post it on here or PM me. Some of the departments have changed their names I believe so my reference to DRIRE may be out of date, but the process is still the same.

I emphasise that the position of the caravan door has nothing to do with the registration process.

We don't use aires for overnight stops(I assume you mean on the motorways?) these days as we can get where we're going in a day, but before our move, when we were holidaying in France, we would often stop overnight on the service station parking areas; if there wasn't a special caravan area we would park on the lorry area, noisy but fairly safe. There have always been rumours about safety on the smaller picnic aires. We still use these motorway areas today, but for lunchtime breaks etc.

Municipal campsites are as good as anywhere for overnight stops, or even for longer stays.

Parking at the side of the road is controlled by the normal parking regulations, which usually mean that you cannot leave a caravan unattached from its towing vehicle, nor can you camp overnight. Many towns have caravan restrictions which mean you cannot tow through the town centres, but these are always signposted.

 

 

[retread]

A Caravan , being towed by a French Vehicle , assuming its over 750kg, must have its own CG and thus carry the Number of that CG def not the towing vehicles plaque.

A caravan may be parked on the road provided that it is not causing a nuisance.   However Camping is forbidden according to the FFCC:-

 sur l’emprise des routes et des voies publiques

sur les rivages de la mer

dans les sites classés ou inscrits

dans les zones de protection

- des monuments historiques

- du patrimoine architectural et urbain

- des monuments naturels et des sites

dans les réserves naturelles

dans les périmètres de protection des points d’eau captée pour la consommation

dans certaines zones fixées par arrêtés pris par les Maires (au nom de la commune ou de l’Etat).

Les

interdictions prises par ces arrêtés ne sont applicables que si elles

ont été portées à la connaissance du public par affichage en mairie et

par apposition des panneaux réglementaires aux points d’accès habituels

vers les zones interdites.

Taking the last mentioned, you must have seen the small Caravan forbidden signs upon entering many touristic towns.

Now Aires for Camping Cars are a slightly different case in that Camping on an Aire is also forbidden, strange but true, but camping is denoted by having anything except the wheels of the vehicle on the ground, this includes levelling ramps, corner steadies, roller and waste balls and so it is at the least uncomfortable for a caravan to park outside a camp site. Also the parking spots are designed to fit Camping cars ie are about 3metres wide and up to 7.5 metres deep. so with your car and caravan combo you are not going to fit. I cannot see the attraction of an Aire for a Caravan, they are quite often charged and a car +caravan would attract two charges why not use a site, where you can have all the facilities that a caravanner will require?

[dave21478]

Generally speaking, motorhomes are allowed to camp in many more locations than caravans in an effort to prevent gyppos from setting up camp.

French Registration of a UK caravann is feasible, but depending on manufacturer backup, potentially long/difficult.

[tasng4]

Firstly thanks to ALL those who have replied it always amazes me that people will take the time to help a total stranger. There's alot to think about here and I was aware the difficulties of importing but it's relief to know it can and has been done.

I have made copies of various posts which contain specific information which I will refer to later. It seems to me the main problem will be the CoC as the 'van was made in 1989 and we are waiting the CoC from Alko but they are having some difficulty in tracking it down. Is it possible to import the 'van without it? In a similar way to the old SVA test in the UK.

[AnOther]

[quote user="retread"]A Caravan , being towed by a French Vehicle , assuming its over 750kg, must have its own CG and thus carry the Number of that CG def not the towing vehicles plaque.[/quote]As stated by Sid 500kg is the limit before a CG grise is required not 750. That is the weight at which it must be fitted with brakes.

It absolutely needs it's own insurance and in 99% of cases that will be with the same company who insure the tow vehicle, in fact you'll find it next to impossible to find a insurer who will cover one separately the reason being in the case of an accident it completely avoids any possible argument over whether the car insurer or caravan/trailer insurer is liable so for your own sake if no other reason it makes sense to have it so.

Some insurers will issue a separate policy for a caravan/trailer and a vignette while others, like mine, cover both on the one policy and the trailer number is on the windscreen vignette for the car itself.

If you have an accident towing an uninsured caravan/trailer your car insurer could well refute a claim.

As regards the maximum towing weight for a group B licence, this document tabulates the possibilities.

[url]www.passion-quad.net/infos/REGLEMENTATION%20REMORQUE.pdf[/url]

[tasng4]

PErhaps I didn't say in the OP but I do have insurance with the same company as the tow car (Generali) who are covering the 'van using the chassis number. I have a seperate vignette (although I don't know where to display it) so I am legal from that point of view. The company ARE aware that it is a UK 'van.

[idun]

What the insurance company say they'll cover and what the gendarmes will think of it is perhaps not the same. And if there is an accident and the gendarmes consider it is 'illegal', then the insurance company may not be seen for dust, and maybe not cover your car either.

Becareful towing a UK caravan back to France.

We had given buying a UK caravan vague consideration some years back in the early 90's, because they were far better equipped than the french ones, but decided not to, as it was going to be very complicated, too complicated at the time.

For those that have registered UK caravans in France, I was wondering  how they brought them to France, maybe on UK registered cars?????

Incidentally, after a couple of incidents I have seen recently in the UK, I rather wish that the same system would be adopted here, with the caravan having it's own plates and insurance and ofcourse MOT'd, and then it would probably be easier to get them into France too.

[tasng4]

Re: insurance companies you're absolutely right. French companies are worse that those in the UK - unless it's just because English is my first language and I can argue better using it.

We towed our's back using the French car and put the car's plate on the back. We could have used the WW provisional system but that only lasts for 3 weeks and can only be renewed once. We will use that system when we have to have it inspected.

I agree with you about the UK and large trailers needing an MOT and V5c.

The sequence of E_Mails re: insurance was:

Ins Co. - send the CG

Me - It's a UK caravan and they don't have CG's but we intend to import it.

Ins co. - please send the make, year and weight

Me - I sent a scan of the tech spec

Ins Co. - replied with the cost and asked for the Id no of the caravan.

The ins Co. then sent the insurance documents.

It may be relevant that we have the tow car, a 4x4, old motorbike and 3 old cars insured with them. If anyone is interested the broker is SM3A.

[idun]

So you've made the big move with it. Well done. I would not use it again until everything is sorted out.

And all insurers are wriggly and will not pay out if they can avoid it. I trust not one of them, and yet am obliged to use them.

[sid]

To put your mind at rest, Idun, we towed our caravan here with our British car when we came over to complete the house purchase. The caravan was then left in the barn when we went back to UK to prepare for the final move, and it was another 3 years before I finally got round to doing the registration!

For us it was a case of selling the caravan that we had become very attached to, having had it from new, or take the plunge and get it registered. In fact the process wasn't half as bad as some people had said.  One of the earlier contributors on here, Sunday Driver, provided some very helpful advice, and it is really just a case of getting prepared.

Tasng4:  For a 1989 caravan it will depend on how much documentation you can gather together, as it will be more like having a single vehicle approval than a standard type.  Specifications from the axle manufacturer (Knott?) plus photographs of any identification plates on the axle, chassis etc. In fact photographs are VERY useful for your dossier in any case.

You will have to fabricate a new small plate for the chassis; not difficult; I used a piece of aluminium sheet and punched the characters onto it, then riveted it to the RHS of the A-frame. You can buy ID plates on Ebay, and I'm sure I've seen reference to them on here.

 

[EuroTrash]

But insurance and registration are completely separate issues.

If the insurers say the van is insured, I see no particular reason to doubt them. Even while it is parked up and going nowhere pending registration, you need it to be insured.

But having insurance doesn't mean you don't have to register it. You can still be fined for using an unregistered vehicle on the roads, and probably have the van immobilised by the gendarmes.

Best not to use it until it is all legal with its own carte grise and number plates.

[sid]

[quote user="EuroTrash"]But insurance and registration are completely separate issues. If the insurers say the van is insured, I see no particular reason to doubt them. Even while it is parked up and going nowhere pending registration, you need it to be insured. But having insurance doesn't mean you don't have to register it. You can still be fined for using an unregistered vehicle on the roads, and probably have the van immobilised by the gendarmes. Best not to use it until it is all legal with its own carte grise and number plates.[/quote]

Good points, but the caravan may (probably will) need to be taken for inspection; the inspectors will not make house-calls.

The caravan will need to be insured whilst taking it for its various inspections. During this pre-registration the VIN can be quoted for insurance, or if there isn't a VIN (as in my case, when VINs were not in use for caravans in 1989) the chassis number is used. The details can be updated with the insurer later. At the very least the caravan needs to be covered for 3rd party risks. A 1989 caravan is unlikely to be worth a great deal now (more sentimental than financial value in our case) and so comprehensive replacement cover is probably overkill (and unnecessarily expensive).

  

 

[tasng4]

Firstly thanks to everyone who contributed to this post. I know it's a while ago since I started it but we now have our English caravan FULLY immatriculated in France.

We did this by applying to the F.F.V.E. (Federation Francais de Vehicule Epoque) for a cetificate to use instead of the Certificate Of Conformite. We sent them EVERY document we have about the caravan, they sent the certificate which we took to the Prefectaire, paid the 71.50€ and a few weeks later we received the Carte Grise.

I estimate we saved 1500€ over buying a fully French caravan. Obviously if we sell it we would have to swap the sockets and, probably, accept less for it as the door is on the wrong side.

There are plenty of old caravans in the UK which could be imported into France but they must be old enough.

Result!!

[AnOther]

The FFVE are only concerned with vehicles over 30 years old so how on earth did you get an attestation for a 1989 caravan out of them.

You didn't fib about it's age did you  ?