So how much DO you pay?

[Jo53]

How much do professionales liberales really pay in cotisations (ie roughly what % of earnings)? I'm doing some financial planning before registering. Using the cotisations calculator on the CNAM/ANPE website, it seemed that on an income of 25,000 euro I would pay 30% of my income in cotisations (impots not an issue as we have 3 children at home). I can cope with 30%. But is this the whole picture? I'm panicking a bit seeing people posting about working 7 months a year for the government, and other cotisation horror stories.

Am I missing something (eg another set of charges)? I am a journalist/writer/editor: I won't employ anyone and I can't imagine I need insurances. The calculation I used on the website was for accountants, as there wasn't a category for writers. Could there be a big variation?

Also, if both my husband and I are liberales, each earning about the same, do we pay two independent sets of cotisations, each calculated as though we were single, or do we pay them as a couple?

Any enlightenment appreciated!

best wishes

Jo

[SaligoBay]

[quote]How much do professionales liberales really pay in cotisations (ie roughly what % of earnings)? I'm doing some financial planning before registering. Using the cotisations calculator on the CNAM/ANPE ...[/quote]

Hello Jo53,

Could you explain the bit about impots not being an issue as you have 3 children at home?

 

[Jo53]

[quote]Hello Jo53, Could you explain the bit about impots not being an issue as you have 3 children at home?[/quote]

Hi

The more dependant children you have, the more 'parts' (individual tax allowances) you get. The partners in a couple get a full part each, the first and second children give you a further half for each child, BUT (and here is the bonus) the third child gives you a further whole one. So a family with 3 or more kids has to have an above average income before they qualify for income tax (social security cotisations are not affected by family size, as far as I know, and for most people these outweigh 'impots' (ie income tax)).

All in the interest of repopulating la belle France, I believe ...

Jo

[SaligoBay]

Thank you

Done 2 nightmare pregnancies, would have to do another two to get the total back up to 3.  I think I'll just keep paying the tax!!

[Glenn]

You don't still have the link to the web page you did your calculations on do you?

[SaligoBay]

http://www.canam.fr/cgi-bin/2000/trepart3NEW.cgi

[Glenn]

Thanks for the link! 

[fatboyslim]

I have been doing this for 7 years now and frankly I find the tax system repressive.  I pay 35% in standard charges and about 15 % in income tax (I also have 3 kids) but unfortunately my revenue is obviously to high.  Above this you then have to take into account health care for your family, professional insurances for home and car and payments for pension.  You basically looking at 65 % globally which is not a good deal.

[Later]

A "back of the envelope" calculation I just did suggests that on that basis, if you move from the UK to France, you need to double your gross income to have the same take-home pay.

But actually this isn't right, because I didn't allow for c12% NI paid by the employer (in my case, me) and private pension which can be c20% and professional indemnity insurance, which varies between professions ... I don't know what equivalent plumbers and bricklayers pay, but I'm sure it's not inconsiderable. 

I'm finding it difficult to compare apples here.  If I posted this post I would have asked a slightly different question (easy to say with the benefit of hindsight ), something along the lines of ... so how much more do you pay in France and at what stage do you pay it - before, during or after you earn it?

[Mpprh]

Hi

I am a profession liberale, but I can't give you the absolute %.

It depends on various factors .......... your income, some are then fixed costs, some are a %.

I've got a couple of points to make :

1)The deductible expenses are pretty generous. Get an accountant for the first year to point you in the right direction.

2)I had one year spent renovating a property, and after allowable expenses could show a loss. The loss was deductible against other income, and the social costs were only a few hundred Euro.

Not the answer you asked for, but maybe useful ?

Peter

[Jo53]

Thanks for your replies, everyone. I guess the only way to find out is to 'suck it and see'. It does make me nervous though. We didn't come to France intending to rely on freelance earnings - it has been forced on us by a redundancy. But hey-ho, we like it here and we'll give it a go. What rankles with me is that, it seems, the self-employed have to pay a much higher % of their earnings than the employed do.

Jo

[BJSLIV]

They pay more because in effect they pay both the employer and the employees contributions, a trick which Gordon Brown is showing signs of recognising in the UK. There is talk of introducing a higher rate of NI for some categories of self-employed in recogntion of this "lost" of revenue.

[Later]

Or you could take the view that your normal wage as an employee (in the UK) does not reflect the total amount paid to the government.  c12.1% gets paid as NI by your UK empoyer.  When you work for yourself, this amount is paid by you, so you feel it more; but actually, as I understand it, it is the same amount in total.  It is considerably worse in France, because the "social charges" that are the equivalent of NI are about three times higher ... which is why French companies are so loath to emply anyone and why there is such a high level of unemployment in France.   

[Emp]

I think you'll find writers come under a different category. I would check with your local ursaaf office.

Good luck.