confused,you will be

[fifi]

We are opening a small shop and do not expect to earn that much.We are looking to go down the micro enterprise route, can we also be conjoint collaborator, if so how much can we earn,do we pay extra in cotisations etc. We know that we may need an accountant but want to have all the background info ready.cheers

[fifi]

Ok before you all shout at me I have now seen some links which have helped.It seems you can be collaberator conjoint on a micro bus but still unsure the amount you can earn.Some say 76000e which refers to Gites but what is the limits of earning, if 2 people register can the 27000e be doubled.

[chris pp]

€27,000 is the amount that you can "take" as payment for services.

€76,000 is the amount which includes buying and providing materials.

The amount can not be doubled for one individual enterprise.

With a conjoint collaborator, either person can be the chef de enterprise, the conjoint can choose whether to pay a voluntary sum to provide an individual "pension" or final sum.

Chris

[TWINKLE]

This maybe of interest to you - I heard about it on the radio this morning.

http://www.radiofrance.fr/chaines/france-info/depeches/detail.php?depeche_id=061114153916.i771bmpt

[fifi]

many thanks;all very helpful

[Ron Avery]

[quote user="TWINKLE"]

This maybe of interest to you - I heard about it on the radio this morning.

http://www.radiofrance.fr/chaines/france-info/depeches/detail.php?depeche_id=061114153916.i771bmpt

[/quote]

That link does not work, but perhaps Twinkle's link was to the  news that there is to be a reform of the social charges micro businesses have to pay from now on, this was announced by President Chirac yesterday.

The Midilibre reported ( roughly translated by me)

Currently, any person who creates a micro business must pay a fixed sum of approximately 3 000 € of social contributions in the first year and nearly 4 500 € in the second, whatever the sales turnover. The reform aims at calculating these contributions in proportion to the actual sales turnover. 

"From now on, each business will have the insurance that for each earned and declared euro, there will not be more than 14 centimes of social security contribution for the trade and not more than 24 centimes for the services".. Mr. Chirac asked the government to act without delay to help these small businesses which are created with the intention of developing . There will also now be a single tax and social charges declaration 

Microbusinesses qualifying for these measures normally have have a self-employed worker with an annual sales turnover of less than 76 300 € for the commercial sector and less than  27 300 € for the service sector.  This measure should benefit between 250 000 and 300 000 companies, These measures will appear in the Social security (PLFSS) Finance bill  under discussion with the Senate, by way of an amendment deposited yesterday by the Minister for Employment, Jean-Louis Borloo."

[chris pp]

I'm obviously a complete idiot, but I can't really see anything so far in this that concretely alters anything that wasn't already possible - unless there is going to be an actual reduction in the % rate that charges are levied at on an ongoing basis.

It has always been possible to have your first two years payments reduced or suspended.

Chris

[Will]

I think the important thing about reduced payments in early years is that you aren't actually being let off paying, it just defers the inevitable. If Chirac actually is reducing cotisations to, effectively, 14% and 24% then small businesses would be rejoicing and it would be a much bigger news story.

Somehow I don't think that is what is being offered, but then I am an idiot too. [:P]

[The Riff-Raff Element]

I watched him on the lunchtime news yesterday and my understanding was

that this was actually a reduction, not a deferal. Or, rather, that the

contributions would be linked to turnover during the first couple of

years and hence (for most) substaintially less than the fixed amounts

now. He did seem to be making a big deal of it. It only applies to new

start ups though: by year three you're on a T:O basis anyway.

The Finance Ministry is very pleased with the mirco regimes - they

reckon that the number of successful start-ups is dramatically improved

and therefore it is worth doing a little tinkering.

[Chris Head]

Blimey! Perhaps the State is waking up a little?

[Clair]

From Le figaro today:

[quote]Le président de la République a confirmé hier une réforme des charges pour les micro-entreprises. Comme Le Figaro l'avait ­annoncé (nos édition du 8 novembre), un amendement a été déposé au projet de loi de financement Sécu à sa demande, pour créer un « forfait social ». Le dispositif, qui prendra effet au 1^er janvier

2007, prévoit que ces toutes petites entreprises paient leurs charges

non plus sur une base forfaitaire, mais au prorata de leur chiffre

d'affaires. Les prélèvements sociaux seront limités à 13,92 % du

chiffre d'affaires pour une activité de commerce et 24,55 % pour une

autre activité.

Aujourd'hui, les

travailleurs indépendants doivent s'acquitter de cotisations qui

représentent un minimum de 3 123 eur la première année et 4 470 eur la

seconde, selon le ministère de l'Emploi. Pour Jean-Louis Borloo, « une

activité artisanale, commerciale ou libérale ne doit plus jamais

conduire à payer des charges plus importantes que ce qu'elle rapporte ». « C'est aussi un moyen de donner l'envie de se lancer ! »

renchérit le ministre des PME, Renaud Dutreil. Près de 300 000

entreprises devraient bénéficier de ce bouclier social, dont le coût

est évalué à 46 millions d'euros. « Une goutte d'eau en comparaison du coût du travail au noir et des fermetures d'entreprises », indique-t-on dans l'entourage de Jean-Louis Borloo.[/quote]

quick translation:

The president of the Republic confirmed yesterday a reform of the social charges paid by small companies. As Le Figaro had announced (our edition

of November 8), an amendment was added to with the Secu

financing bill , requesting the creation of a “social forfait”. The device,

which will take effect at January 1, 2007, provides that these very

small companies pay their social charges not on a fixed amount basis, but in

proportion to their sales turnover. The social charges will be

limited to 13,92% of the sales turnover for a trade activity and

24,55% for another activity. According to the ministry for Employment, the self-employed workers currently pay contributions which represent a minimum of 3.123 or the first

year and 4.470 or the second.

For Jean-Louis Borloo, “an artisanal, commercial or liberal activity

must never again result in paying higher charges than its earnings”. “It is also a way of encouraging the desire to start out! ”

the Minister for SME, Renaud Dutreil added. Nearly 300.000

companies should benefit from this social shield, the cost of which is

estimated at 46 million euros. “A drop in the ocean when compared to cost of the

moonlighting and closing of companies”, as indicated by the entourage

of Jean-Louis Borloo.

[Will]

Other reports I have seen elsewhere suggest that it only applies to start-up businesses, only to single-person companies, and that it is only up for discussion - nothing yet fixed. I wonder who is right? And I wonder how they will know in advance how much you are earning from the business? Certainly those of us with small businesses who currently pay 46% or more in social costs would see it as rather unfair, and putting us at a disadvantage unless everybody can benefit.

 

[andyh4]

Don't you just love Babel fish

I wonder how many microphone companies there are in France

 

[Clair]

[quote user="andyh4"]Don't you just love Babel fish

I wonder how many microphone companies there are in France [/quote]

Actually, it's Google with added knowlegde French and English language...! But as I said, it was a quick translation!