fosse septique soil testing - is this normal?....

[chocccie]

I had somebody come to my property to look around with a view to giving me a quote for installation.  I then get a devis in the post for around 400 euros, if memory serves, from a separate company to come and do soil testing before the installers would give a quote for the installation.

Is this the norm?

[Anton Redman]

Broadly yes I believe so . If for instance you fosse is going into Sandy Soil on a well drained hill side then the (w)hole thing is easy to install. If on the other hand you are in a clay puddle in a hollow there is much more work required to satisfy the drainage requirments. Soil permuability and drainage are I believe meant to be independantly checked and certified.

[Nick Trollope]

[quote]Broadly yes I believe so . If for instance you fosse is going into Sandy Soil on a well drained hill side then the (w)hole thing is easy to install. If on the other hand you are in a clay puddle in a ...[/quote]

And it's mandatory. So you probably have little choice (other than to use another testing company). Your fosse installer should explain the process to you.

 

[Motorhead]

It's not mandatory everywhere. It might be in some departments but certainly not in all and probably not in most.

Get the form for a self installation from your local mairie or bureau de la qualite de l'eau and it will tell you on it how to do a DIY soil permeability test if that option is allowed in your departement. A day spent digging a few holes will save you the 400 euros. If you fill out the rest of the form (it doesn't have to be perfect, it's just to get them to come out) and send it to the bureau an inspector will come out within 2 months and tell you exactly what you need for free.You don't even have to say that you will be doing the actual physical installation itself (you can put the installers name down in the box for that) only that you are responsible for the project.

I wouldn't be surprised if the installer was getting a kickback from the survey company.

[Weedon]

If you do a Google on brain surgery no doubt it will tell you how to do your own frontal lobotomy and I dare say you can save yourself a bit of money doing the job yourself rather than going private.  Personally I prefer to take my chances, should the need arise, with somebody who had done the job before and at the end have the power of speech, hearing and smell out of the correct orifices.

If you go to your local Mairie they will give you details of people in your area who can take soil samples and will advise where to place the tank and filter bed.  The paperwork is shown to the maire who does an initial inspection and will liaise with the people doing the job. On its completion the maire (or his advisor) will then tell you your system is approved and you have no worries.

Would'nt it be a shame to do all of that work yourself only to find out your system was in the wrong place and inadequate.

My advice would be to get it done by the book with the assistance of the Mairie and if 400€ turns out to be the going rate then so be it as I suspect that you have plenty of other bigger bills coming along.

weedon

 

[rodneyt]

If it is allowed in your area anybody with half a brain could do a soil test!

I did ours, the fosse  is now in ,the epindage is  complete and we have a certificate to say its ok.

Easy peasy

 

 

[BJSLIV]

You don't need the contractor's opinion,  not even the Maire's opinion. What you will need is a ruling from the local SPANC. They are the people who will issue the certificate that your installation is OK. If they won't accept a diy test then your application won't go anywhere.

You will have to pay them to inspect your new fosse so pick their brains, get something back for your money!

 

[Motorhead]

Wow 400 euros for brain surgery. I know I'm twisting Weedons words a bit but then he did it to mine. Rodney found he could do it with half a brain so maybe he'd tried the DIY lobotomy first or maybe not ,puting a fosse in is not brain surgery.

I actually took Weedon's advice at first and went along to the local Mairie. There they told me to see the Bureau Departmental de la Qualite de l'Eau in Moulins (03). I got to speak to the actual guy who comes out to do the inspections. After reading so much drivel about having to get a company in to do an etude it was the first thing I asked him about. He said "Don't bother with that, it'll cost far too much money. Just follow the instructions on the form and you'll be OK.".

"Would'nt it be a shame to do all of that work yourself only to find out your system was in the wrong place and inadequate."

It's quite clear from the gem of wisdom above that Weedon has never actually even seen the form you have to fill in.

[chocccie]

ok settle down folks!

Thanks for all the replies... another company has told me I can do it myself.  I just dig a whole so wide by so deep, fill it with water and when it drains away pour in so many litres - the amount of time it takes to drain away will indicate what soil type/terrain I have and that will indicate what sort of system I need.

Does that sound right?  I felt quite confident by the companies conduct and knowledge (which is more than I can say for the original lot!)

Thanks again

[Alexis]

I think that we had six holes done by The Man.  As you say, he filled them with water and then waited for them to drain.

They sent all the details and plans a couple of weeks later.

I'm not one to stop a person DIYing...I do most things myself but we knew installing a fosse was beyond us and when we saw the work involved by the contractor and this with his enormous diggers and other equipment, I was glad we employed him.  He was worth every penny.

Don't forget too, things have tightened up enormously and the French are obstinate pigs at the best of times and if they can thwart you in any way, they will.

If you costed out your time - seeing that the forms etc appear to be complicated - how much would you actually save and would it be worth it?  Honestly?

I'm just smug that it is all installed and the grass is growing beautifully, thank you

[Motorhead]

Well done Choccie, you've just saved 400 euros.

Generally you dig a hole 60cm square and then another 30 square at the bottom of it. In dry weather you presoak it with 30l of water (if it's wet don't bother). The actual test involves pouring 10l of water in and then measuring the time the water takes to drain away, however, if it hasn't all drained after 4 hours you measure the height of the water that is left in cms.

You shouldn't need to dig more than 3 holes. I think the guy that did 6 was just trying to justify his fee. The hole/s don't actually go where the fosse septique itself is going to be but in the epandage (drainage/leach field) beyond it.

You then fill the time or the height in on the form where it asks for it. The form is not difficult. The soil test is the main thing they want to know about apart from the names and adresses. You have to also supply some drawings but really you could pull out a couple of pages from the 1973 Bunty annual for that. The inspector is going to tell you exactly what you need no matter what you put down in the application.

[Weedon]

[quote]Wow 400 euros for brain surgery. I know I'm twisting Weedons words a bit but then he did it to mine. Rodney found he could do it with half a brain so maybe he'd tried the DIY lobotomy first or maybe n...[/quote]

I seem to remember not so long ago a few here were bemoaning the fact that they could only charge peanuts for a hard days graft. Maybe they were the same ones on this thread advocating the DIY approach, certainly one of you is.  As I am unable to see any of your names I can only guess at who you are, and similarly you are probably the ones that although I sign off at the end of my postings you fail to recognise my true identity...a customer.

The day will come when we are all DIYers and then you will have no alternative but to get your drill out!!  Always providing that you have the cash to buy a sharp drill and there is somebody out there making them?

Apologies to the original poster who only asked a simple question.

weedon

 

[Motorhead]

Weed on, you are not talking about the same thing. I shall attempt to explain.

The other post to which you refer was bemoaning the fact that the customers were reluctant to pay for the use/wear and tear of the machinery that the job required, leaving the poor worker with no means of support when it wore out and needed replaced. What's more is that the initial investment which may have run into 4 figures and that much effort may have been expended to aquire would have been given away as a "present" to the customers.

Now to the present topic. You do not need a 4 figure investment to set yourself up in the soil testing business. Let's examine what you need:

1 bucket, 1 spade, 1 measuring tape, 1 pair wellies(optional), some paper and envelopes, flat drawing surface,  1 ruler. 1 pen and some pencils (preferably coloured).

Not exactly a big investment, especially for someone who charges over twice the going rate for a gardener.

However you were right when you said on the other topic that gardening was "too transparent" an occupation. The original poster there needs to cloud the water a bit like the soil testers, perhaps by using chemicals that aren't available to the DIY punter.

 

BTW  There's only one Motorhead here.

[Fantine<br><br><br><br>Susie]

These soil tests aren't always quite correct. We had an official come and do a soil test which passed OK. When they came to dig the drainage bed we found ourselves with a 35 square metre hole completely lined with clay. More soil tests done in the bottom - clay. A soak away from the drainage bed was the next option and was drilled on the site of the original soil test - five and a half metres down and it was still clay!!! They had to pipe off to another soakaway down the bottom of the garden which was 3 metres deep befor it got past the clay. The soil test was a complete waste of time.

See the saga of the new fosse here http://our-new-pool-build.mysite.wanadoo-members.co.uk/

[Weedon]

[quote]Weed on, you are not talking about the same thing. I shall attempt to explain. The other post to which you refer was bemoaning the fact that the customers were reluctant to pay for the use/wear ...[/quote]

As it is with some people that in order to stress a point they cannot help but to start off with a juvenile form of p***take.

I have a thick skin which has been developed over the years of running a small business right up to the point where I said f***em and retired to France.  A lot of the aggro came from people who thought they were able to do every job themselves and were of the mind that people with dirt under their nails had no education and no training in what they were doing. 

So when I come back again it will be as a shrink when all I have to do is buy a couch and listen to people and their problems, and if I cannot help them it will be their own fault and here is my large bill.

weedon