Uk Bath/Shower fittings suitability for French plumbing/plumbers.

[woodswave]

Apologies to everyone if these queries have been answered before but if they have, I can't find where.

If for reasons of convenience (ie. time to look and to be supplied) I buy my baths / Showers / Basins and Toilets in the UK, will the standard French fittings match up?

Secondly, anyone know where I can get some doors 'dipped' in Normandy?

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

 

[La Guerriere]

Take time out to buy stuff in France. If you take advantage of special offers etc you can buy cheaper than in UK particularly WCs, sinks, washbasins, shower trays etc etc.

Jim

 

[suein56]

***If you take advantage of special offers etc you can buy cheaper than in UK particularly WCs, sinks, washbasins, shower trays etc etc.***

Yes, I agree with that. Depends whereabouts you are but our local Castorama in 56 has the most amazing prices on their washbasins, shower trays, loos etc. They would have been really cheap if priced in £s but as they were priced in euros they were selling sound, solid ceramic ware at astonishingly low prices.

We are only renting but have replaced some ceramic ware because what was here was really grotty - not really cleaned in the (only) 10 years since the house was built.

Sue

[Jc]

Bought a complete toilet pan,close coupled cistern,seat and lid and fitting kit and ball valve for less than the cost of a pan at Wickes.That was at M.Bricolage.

[SC]

J-

Whilst appreciating the convenience and time-saving of bringing from the UK if you are based there, this may save you some time and money-
White washbasins with for monobloc tap, wall hung about £14 (or buy a pedestal) at Castorama branches, usually/always in stock.
Chrome washbasin wastes if you're wall hanging from LeRoy merlin or La Peyre.
Monobloc ceramic action taps with brass , not plastic, lever and sts flex connectors, washbasin and sink models, about £8 from Weldom. (yes, £8)
Close coupled 3/6 litre (we call them pee/poo's) wc complete, about £35 special offer price in most bigger DIY's most of the time, and always in BricoDepot.

Hope this helps.

Steve

[Opel Fruit<P><BR>Opel Fruit, Dept. 53<P>]

Oops

[Opel Fruit<P><BR>Opel Fruit, Dept. 53<P>]

And then you'll get someone coming on poo-pooing the cheap ceramics.

Ignore them - they are all NF and the cheap stuff is great value and tough. Buy cheap here.

Taps with sink drains for 7.90 Eur is just not achievable in the UK...... and they are exactly the same ones Screwfix sell for 5 times the price. 

[Dave]

Hi, i agree with all that has been said, just make sure that you keep your receipts, one pan i bought from Brico was mis-shaped and we would have slid off it if fitted....they changed it without question but had a laugh at my mime of slipping off the loo. Also we inherited a pan that never flushed completely, we looked around at others (very interesting!) and dicovered that ours had a large 'throat' at the bottom of the pan and the water just did not get the neccesary whoosh...? to take the waste away...moral is look for a pan with a narrow 'throat'. Not sure of my terminology but hope you get the picture. Good luck

best regards

[La Guerriere]

I note from your first mail that you are in Normandy. There is a big Leroy Merlin at Caen Mondeville and a big Castorama on the main road peripherique nord.

Jim

 

[Opel Fruit<P><BR>Opel Fruit, Dept. 53<P>]

Dip and Strip - I noticed that there is a one on the main drag between St Malo/Dinard and Rennes. There is a yellow panneau with "Dip and Strip" on it on the left if you are heading north.

[Liz]

[quote]Apologies to everyone if these queries have been answered before but if they have, I can't find where. If for reasons of convenience (ie. time to look and to be supplied) I buy my baths / Showers / B...[/quote]

I go along with everything people have said about sanitary ware being cheaper here, to the extent that we are considering taking french stuff to the UK to do a makeover there.  So far as compatibility of french fittings is concerned, in general you won't have any problems.  Taps are OK (half inch is half inch in both countries)  and I would definitely buy taps in France, so much cheaper and so much more stylish.  Outlets are OK, you might have to do a bit of fidddling but 40mm (nominally   ) is 40mm in either language.  The only thing I know that tends to be different is the outlet for the loo which, I think is generally 110mm in the UK and 100mm in France but there are connectors that cater for this.

Copper pipe is different, 10, 12, 14mm etc but I have known people use UK sizes and found ways of connecting.  It just takes a bit of ingenuity.

I have just noticed that the title of your post says "French plumbers".  If you intend to bring stuff over and then look for a local plumber to fit it you could have problems.  As I have said it can be done but a local person might not be too keen to do it for you.

Liz (29)

[Opel Fruit<P><BR>Opel Fruit, Dept. 53<P>]

A French plumbing company will not fit anything 15mm, or PVC products that are not grey! They will be VERY reluctant to fit UK sourced kit if it is obvious that it is - installation instructions and packing are a giveaway.

In general, plombiers will always prefer to supply and fit. They make money on supply. The guy I work for will generally fit someone's gear, but right at the back of the queue.

Remember that Artisans like plombiers and chauffagistes are not short of work.

[woodswave]

Blimey, your amazing! I've learnt more in 24 hrs than I've been able to make sense of by reading in three months.

All advice taken and greatly appreciated. Thanks.

 

[VJ]

Well we must have this plumbing cracked!!! or is it the toilets????the French ARTISANS we use for the Plumbing will fit ALL uk taps, mixers, wastes, and will swage out fittings to suit. They will fit 15mm drain offs on all ceiling fed rads and put them on the drain runs instead of the silly french drain offs, although we have recently found the French equal.

They love our European standard rads.with rolled tops and they want us to bring over Slipper baths at £300-00 per go.

Larry the Pro One of VJ's team

[Opel Fruit<P><BR>Opel Fruit, Dept. 53<P>]

After all that's been said on this post...

Why would anyone fit the more expensive UK taps etc? Just doesn't make ANY sense. It's like bringing French wine INTO France from the UK.

French registered plumbing Artisans (those who have CdC accreditation, a Carte de chambre de métiers, and assurance responsabilité civile) cannot morally fit non-NF material, just as French sparks cannot fit BS only products. The implications are too considerable to contemplate. 

What is most disturbing is the implication that it is alright to do what you want. This is NOT the case, is misleading (at best) and cannot serve to help those who want to have work done (whatever it is) legally, professionally, safely and Insurable. Or in the case of someone who wishes to do some of the work themselves, or make purchases, to have reasonably accurate and informed guidance.

 

 

[VJ]

The client could not find the stle they were looking for (Price is not the issue)You pays the money and you makes your choice.

Interested in your NF views OP, I was out with Moeller electrics yesterday and raised the point, The technician confirmed that the European harmonisation rules allowing EU certs, cover most Country standards.certainly on the major parts and equipment.

On checking specs for materials I note this is stated and EN numbers quoted.

I note that European boilers carry the same

Dont forget that european harmonisation of cable colours come in fully next year

just out of interest do you have Aparve sign off your industrial installations?

[Opel Fruit<P><BR>Opel Fruit, Dept. 53<P>]

1. Don't do Industrial and I think you are referring to the company APAVE (do spell it correctly)

2. Know Klockner-Moeller well - which rep??? 

3. EN fine if so marked

[VJ]

OOhnererr OP Picking up the spelling now.

1.Stick to Domestic do you ?

2.Dropped the Klockner just Moeller Thought you would have known that every one in the Business does !!!!!

Thanks for 3.

Have a good weekend

[Opel Fruit<P><BR>Opel Fruit, Dept. 53<P>]

1. OF not OP (spelling again)

2. If you bother to quote a brand or society, it ALWAYS helps to spell it correctly.

3. I know Klockner-Moeller from a previous life. I know some of the reps. So which rep?? Or is the question too hard?

4. You seem to have missed the point about plumbing rather than electrical installations. And all the HVAC controllers we use have Klockner-Moeller on them. Still.

5. I believe the weather in the UK this weekend is not good - sorry.

Kenavo!

[VJ]

Come on keep up

1 OP short for Opel Tell us what you prefer?

2 Point taken, my team always listen to constructive criticism or they are out.

3.Now don't get rude and we do not deal with reps.

4 Sure it is not Old stock or maybe coming from different factory?

5 Down in Cassis measuring up so I expect it will be OK (Pity that eh?

The team say Hi and it includes the Plumbers mmmm lovin it xxxxx

[Opel Fruit<P><BR>Opel Fruit, Dept. 53<P>]

Quote: "Just checked with Electrical manager here and he advises that all the MCBS RCBO contactors switches ect ect are to a European standard and has shown me the Klockner catalogue to show the standards " - you said Klockner were dead!

Just knew you were bulling about Moeller....  you know no-one.

The real problem with your postings is that people use this Forum looking for advice. They may well read your postings and follow your poor advice - as I stated before:

" French registered plumbing Artisans (those who have CdC accreditation, a Carte de chambre de métiers, and assurance responsabilité civile) cannot morally fit non-NF material, just as French sparks cannot fit BS only products. The implications are too considerable to contemplate. 

What is most disturbing is the implication that it is alright to do what you want. This is NOT the case, is misleading (at best) and cannot serve to help those who want to have work done (whatever it is) legally, professionally, safely and Insurable. Or in the case of someone who wishes to do some of the work themselves, or make purchases, to have reasonably accurate and informed guidance. "

If you insist on hijacking posts, you must offer accurate and real advice. EuroNorms are one thing (and a good thing), BUT NF is the ONLY fully recognised standard in France and its Dom-Tom. Every quotation you provide relates to UK standards, UK Products, UK suppliers, UK prices, UK websites, UK practice. This is just not acceptable. This is France, mate.

DO NOT offer half-baked advice. You are clearly some kind of Walter Mitty character, and a dangerous one at that...scanning through some of the muddled crud about Woodburners, Flues, Chimneys and electrical installations using UK kit is just frightening. What if someone gets hurt?

Just what is your trade, Jack??

I also suspect you are working on the Black - you cannot be processing TVA properly with all the UK items you keep bringing over by your own foolish admission. Not good, that, not good at all. There are a good number of folk on this forum that would just love to shop you.

 

You also don't seem to know where you are:

Quote:

"I, like you are in the Aveyron and good roofers are like Hen's teeth "

"Down in Cassis measuring up so I expect"

"Remember two years ago it was minus 15 in central france"

"I have just had two roofs done in the sw region of France"

"My home in Uk will in the evening go to 3 bar"

" I spend £100,000-00 per year " 

 

[Neilc]

Opel

Whilst I agree with most of what you say I am not sure you are correct about this

" French registered plumbing Artisans (those who have CdC accreditation, a Carte de chambre de métiers, and assurance responsabilité civile) cannot legally fit non-NF material, just as French sparks cannot fit BS only products. The implications are too considerable to contemplate. 

 

My understanding is that any product with a CE mark can be sold and used anywhere in the EU. What you say above implies this is not correct. What is your view?

With regard to NF's, BS's, DIN's etc I was under the understanding that many off these have already been replaced by EN's and it was only if an EN had not been produced did a national standard still take priority. Again whats your view on this?

[Opel Fruit<P><BR>Opel Fruit, Dept. 53<P>]

It really depends on what it is you are fitting/supplying.

EN will eventually replace everything - many standards in the UK quote BS EN xxxxx for example - which is an interim position.

Likewise, pipe is often quoted to NF and EN.

CE is an accreditation concerning (in the main) electromagnetic compatabilty, and is applied where one piece of kit will not cause interference or malfunction of another. It also applies to personal safety and various other factors.

The point about NF is really that one countries' quality/applicability standards do not necessarily translate into anothers'. And would certainly cause extreme difficulties in Insurance Claims. Assurance companies in France have a near Forensic ability to determine material and fit standards, and any minor non-compliance will result in them having every reason to blast the claim. Which is their aim!

Thus, non-EN/NF goods cannot morally be fitted (whatever it is) in France.

And anyone in the recognised metier (an Artisan) will NOT do this. And certainly not wantonly import it.

And, advocating, encouraging or even bragging about the use of "random" material that is clearly non-compliant, together with a disdain for correct procedure, skill or technique is something that rattles.

Imagine the scenario of Mr and Mrs Smith making a claim for a fire in their recently renovated Gîte (as recently happened on the Cote d'Azur with clients in it). The assessors (lots of them) walk in and ask for all the Factures for the electrical installation, the roof, the plumbing and the roof. The owners can only provide one for the roof. The assessors start to delve into the cause together with the Pompiers, and they find a UK tableau with single pole MCBs. They delve further and find that there is no RCD. They continue and find that there is a ring main, in twin and earth. They find UK sockets. They find UK light fittings, not fitted in the manner expected. They find that the compteur was connected without Conseul. They find that the heating system has a UK indirect copper cylinder. They find that their woodburner (not the actual cause of the fire) was fitted without the correct flueing.

How much do you reckon they paid in the claim?

[Guest CFrost]

My wife, dog and myself will be moving to dept 17 Gemozac in the next three weeks and will be starting renovations, most things need doing.

I have improver skills at plumbing and have previously used the yorkshire type solder fittings and compression joints and was wondering what are the benifits/ drawbacks from replumbing throughout with PVC rather than copper.

Look forward to your replies.

 

regards

 

phil

 

[Opel Fruit<P><BR>Opel Fruit, Dept. 53<P>]

Never used PVC other than for drainware. I think you are referring to "Easytub"?

Plastic pipe in the form of PER is gaining a strong following here. Albeit slowly. The tube (in 16 and 20mm) is quite cheap and also available pre-sleeved (pregainée), BUT the connectors are quite expensive, although you don't need too many because you can run long lengths of pipe with no joints. And the joints are fully demountable.

It is easy to use, is clean, is safe and is recommended. It is vital that very long straight runs are avoided, since the expansion of PER (1%) is 10 times that of copper. Or arrange the run to allow for this.

PER is generally connected by special compression joints (with integral pipe supports), whereas UK PEX is generally joined by push fittings with seperate insert pipe supports. 

It is also possible to use crimp connectors - you need to buy a crimping tool for these.

It is also essential to use the correct cutter for the pipe - it cuts clean and square. Never hacksaw or use a bare knife.