Babbles Posted April 28, 2006 Share Posted April 28, 2006 I have heard various rumours about using Polish builders for renovation projects and all have been very good saying that they're hard working and reasonablly, What I am wondering is just how much cheaper they are, can anyone give me some idea of the saving? and just what the experience was like, language barriers etc or even recomendations of any in 47 or 32 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zeb Posted April 28, 2006 Share Posted April 28, 2006 LOL - maybe you could save some more if you shipped some workers over from China! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Posted April 28, 2006 Share Posted April 28, 2006 The use of eastern European or north African labour on building sites is a widespread scam in France. The experience of those who have used them is, most commonly, a visit from the URSSAF inspectors accompanied by the gendarmes, followed by a large fine or even a spell in jail. If the Poles are legal, registered and insured in France they will be no cheaper than anybody else. Edit - yes, Chinese black market labour, usually in hotels, is another common fiddle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gluestick Posted April 28, 2006 Share Posted April 28, 2006 When I was fairly deeply involved in soft services on major projects in the Middle East, the Koreans were the benchmark of cheap! (1970s).They were all government employees and lived in the 40 foot boxes (shipping containers) used to ship their equipment etc.UK and US workers demanded air-conditioned facilities etc.One good project was what we called the Leaning Tower of Doha. (Qatar) Could be seen from the arriving aircraft. Doha means Shifting Sands, and these guys built the steelwork for a tall complex without the correct raft: honestly. It sort of moved! Then they all went back to Seul to do their sums again, never to return! Happy days.[:D][:D] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babbles Posted April 28, 2006 Author Share Posted April 28, 2006 Just wondering as they're part of the EU, and here in Lancashire they do a lot of labouring, hotel work and factory work mainly because no Engish National wants to do that type of work and have really help speed up getting things done they're not paid any less than an English National they are just prepared to do manual jobs,A bit surprised that you assume they would be working un-insured and unregistered, why do people assume that it would be underhand an an expoititive arrangement. These people aren't run by gangmasters who force them into manual low paid work, when they take their wages home its the equivilant of working as a professional even if in UK/France it is the minimum wageVery dissappointed that there is such a high level negativity with little evidence to back it up.By the way a 40 ft shipping container is bigger than a lot of hotel rooms!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markkp Posted April 28, 2006 Share Posted April 28, 2006 Not when theres 50 of you in there it aint..[+o(]Qatar offshore labour is now done by Indians and Pakistiani's who work in terrible condtions for around $100 (us) per month..My freind is polish and am sure he wouldnt work for peanuts, or for monkeys who would like to pay him in peanuts for that matter[Www] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babbles Posted April 28, 2006 Author Share Posted April 28, 2006 Not in that heat either!!!! We're not looking to rip anybody off, and maybe France has a very different work ethic and attitude to manual labour jobs that need doing to the UK , cos we have really struggled to find labours who put in a good days work here in the UK we've always treated & paid well even if some of our staff turned out to be theives. It cuts both ways its not always the boss who takes advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will Posted April 28, 2006 Share Posted April 28, 2006 The difference is that in France it is the government rather than the bosses who exploit the situation. In order to pay the minimum wage, which most French workers get as well as Poles, Koreans or whatever, any enterprise has to charge about 2.5-3 times that figure just to cover social charges and the costs of running a business in France. The reason French workers are more than happy to accept such low wages, identical to what the law says Poles would have to be paid if they were working legally, is due basically to the very high unemployment, particularly in rural areas. French employment law gives employees a degree of protection unknown in most other countries - look at the furore over the CPE, which was designed to relax those laws slightly in order to relieve unemployment among the young - which further reduces scope for competiveness.So, anybody undercutting normal rates charged by legitimate French tradesmen is most likely either on a mission to business suicide - as he will find out when he receives his URSSAF etc bills - or working on the black market.The scams involving unregistered foreign workers occur mainly on big building and civil engineering projects, where contractors use cheap unregistered immigrant labour, pay them a pittance and pay the government no social charges, yet charge the client the full rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DZ Posted April 28, 2006 Share Posted April 28, 2006 I do wish I could use my compatriots (ie Poles) to do the building work on my French house and, indeed, I have been offered some good names, but, heeding the warnings from this Forum about the need for proper registration of workers in France, I have chosen to employ a registered French firm. I do wonder how they will compare price-wise!Anna Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gluestick Posted April 28, 2006 Share Posted April 28, 2006 Same here in the UK, of course, Will, as anyone involved in the CIS tax nightmare knows only too well.One of my clients is a contract manager and expeditor for a major UK firm. He has only praise for the Eastern European workers. However, far too many are being exploited by various dubious characters, as we all know.What beats me with the contrarian view, here, is that if the guys working in the North of England were properly advised and real building site workers with experience, why are they not working in the London Bubble area?Loads of well paid work here at present and even more coming with the Olympic Games projects in East London. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Babbles Posted April 29, 2006 Author Share Posted April 29, 2006 Who wants to work in the Hell hole that is London, We're happy with what we've achieved "Up North" and are looking for a bolt hole in an more relaxed pace of life. We got out of working for big corporations as we did not want to on that tread mill what we do is small scale work and have no interest in just chasing a fast buck or managing a huge workforce, when I had 550 people working for me it was all about Human Resources and Disciplinary procedure and driving 1000 miles a week, I don't want a life that revolves around that anymore, it sucks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Val_2 Posted April 29, 2006 Share Posted April 29, 2006 Directives received from CAPEB today warn all potential french building firm employers to be very very careful about employing polish workers in the trade. Basically they must register with the ANPE first because they can claim for everything under the sun including french lessons and the poor old patron will end paying for it all. Contracts have to be specific regarding where they live and what they do exactly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tresco Posted April 30, 2006 Share Posted April 30, 2006 I thought I'd sling this into the mix. The thing that struck me about it, apart from an apparent shortage of pastry chefs, is that there are 61 trades/occupations that France seems short of. This doesn't include plumbers [:)]http://www.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,,1764111,00.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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