Taping and Jointing

[Jules]

As mentioned in a previous post we are currently renovating a small house on the Somme.

We have just had a quote for taping and jointing the house (which is very small) of 5000 Euros[:(]

Is there anyone who lives in this area that has had taping and jointing done by an artisan and been pleased with it.

JULES

[Chancer]

Yes!

And I also know of others that have had to pay similar amounts for seriously inferior work.

[pogo]

For that price,I'll drive up from the center of france and do it[;-)].and you wouldn't see a join[geek] even with these specs on.pogo

[Anton Redman]

[quote user="J.R."]

Yes!

And I also know of others that have had to pay similar amounts for seriously inferior work.

[/quote]

The above is slightly less useful than a chocolate frying pan, a bull's teats or a vote of thanks at an Annual General Meeting. You cannot price till you now how good underlying work is.  If you can do the dry lining to a  reasonable standard you do not need a pro for jointing.    it just needs a bit of patience and a lot of sanding blocks.

[Jules]

[quote user="Anton Redman"][quote user="J.R."]

Yes!

And I also know of others that have had to pay similar amounts for seriously inferior work.

[/quote]

The above is slightly less useful than a chocolate frying pan, a bull's teats or a vote of thanks at an Annual General Meeting. You cannot price till you now how good underlying work is.  If you can do the dry lining to a  reasonable standard you do not need a pro for jointing.    it just needs a bit of patience and a lot of sanding blocks.

[/quote]

Cheers I think we'll have a go at doing it our selves then[:D]

JULES XX

Where on the Somme are you??

[Chancer]

[quote user="Anton Redman"][quote user="J.R."]

Yes!

And I also know of others that have had to pay similar amounts for seriously inferior work.

[/quote]

The above is slightly less useful than a chocolate frying pan, a bull's teats or a vote of thanks at an Annual General Meeting. You cannot price till you now how good underlying work is.  If you can do the dry lining to a  reasonable standard you do not need a pro for jointing.    it just needs a bit of patience and a lot of sanding blocks.

[/quote]

 

Oh Sorry but I was trying to be helpfull (as I do actually live in the area of the poster) but perhaps not specific enough, this was because I did not want to discuss other peoples experiences on a public forum. I answered the posters question, the rest was to say that he was not the only one being asked of such a huge sum.

Suffice to say that the other works that I quoted were not as well prepared as mine and for a small 1 bed gite they were quoted around 3Keuros hors taxes and ending up paying a couple of non professionals around 2K euros cash, the standard of finish was far from good and in the most part could not be blamed on the bad joints.

I payed a junior pro working on his days off 500 euros to do a similar size job but very well prepared (I am an obsessive!), in truth it was a lot of money for me and worked out at over 35 euros per hour however he worked hard (not one person working the other watching/smoking) and the finish was excellent, I have since mounted a couple of cloisons which I jointed myself and had to do a lot of rubbing down to end up with a worse finish.

On balance I will do my own jointing for the rest of my works (rental flats) but am very pleased to have had my own done by a pro (as I have a very critical eye) and to have been able to watch and learn.

[tj]

[quote user="Jules"]
As mentioned in a previous post we are currently renovating a small house on the Somme.
We have just had a quote for taping and jointing the house (which is very small) of 5000 Euros[:(]

Is there anyone who lives in this area that has had taping and jointing done by an artisan and been pleased with it.

JULES
[/quote]

Hi

You don't say, but I'm assuming that includes fixing of placo as well?

[Chancer]

In this area not a chance!

5k for taping and jointing only a small house does not surprise me around here, what would surprise me is if the finished result were acceptable let alone worth the money.

Sadly too many gullible Brits have already accepted devi's like that so it is now the norme when quoting for etrangers, makes life bloody hard for the rest of us watching our pennies.

Editted:

Going back to Anton Redmans posting where he said if you pose the placo well you can do it yourself but will need lots of sanding blocks.

The joints I had done by a proffessional needed not one bit of sanding or filling, I painted them and they are invisible, the ones I did needed much sanding and refilling and can still be seen in some places.

I would rather put up with that than spend 5K euros and still see the joins or peeling tape as I have seen on others work.

[sharkhunter]

Hi, been in the building game since methusla was a lad and i have always seen tapers rub down to achieve a finish suitable for painting, the first coat has to be done well to enable the second coat to be a quick skim and light rub down. The secret i believe is to have a good wide coverage that allows the 1st coat enough room to feather out and the 2nd coat to basically even out any small blemishes, but still need a rub down with a sanding pole or such like. I am not a taper therefore my opinion is just that, an opinion, and in no way infers that i am right and others are wrong. I am a chippie and wish i had a penny/cent for every sheet of p/board i have put up in houses all over Scotland as well as here in France. Good luck to all that have a go, its very satisfying to do something outwith your normal remit and see it come good.

[Anton Redman]

It is the old story. You can be good, you can be cheap and you can be fast but you cannot be all three. As it is my own time I use three coats and start with a relatively thin plaster knife, then a wider blade for the second coat and a blade the width of the valley between the boards for the third coat. If everything goes perfectly two coats can be enough but I am still not that good.

We do not paint till we have it right. One plasterboard to plaster joint at the end of a rubble wall which had been partially removed by the previous owners took 7 expletive deleated coats before I lost the join

The special trowels for doing inside and outside corners are money well spent IMHO. Jointing tape seems to be very expensive in M. Bricolage and Brico Marche and I would either buy from Brico Depot or Screwfix.  Screwfix also have a precreased tape for corners which does make the job easier.  

 

[Chancer]

Some more comments.

The enduiser managed to do everything with just two knives in one hand and the precut tape in the other whilst making it look like childs play, me I am always up and down the steps to get a cutter, trowel or some other gizmo.

He did not use corner trowels at all and still got a very edge, I have bought a set but cannot get on with them and they are the cause of most of my rework.

I was seriouys about no rubbing down of his joints, I just briefly de-nibbed in a few places without a block and using absolutely no pressure, one thing I found was a slightly raised (but regular) edge in the internal corner between the walls and ceilings caused by his method of finishing the corners, this could only be removed by scraping but at risk to the adjoining finish. However it was a godsend when cutting in the wall paint as it stopped the paint from spreading to the ceiling, the ridge was not visible when the paint dried and actually defines the corner.

I have found the best jointing tape at Brico-Depot but sometimes you have to search their stock for it, it is pre-creased as Anton said but some of them also have micro-perforations which in effect allow the jopinting compound to rivet the tape in position.

He wouldnt use the sticky mesh tape saying that it led to cracks although I am not certain that he has ever tried it, certainly with his method of applying the paper tape I can't see him ever needing it, he also didn't pre-soak the tape citing the same reason, its been nearly a year without any cracks appearing; by contrast I have seen some other jobs where most joint tape has come away from the skimmed joint which I suspect was due to wetting or overwetting.

Sorry for the duplication, I often wondered how it happened. The software wouldnt let me delete the duplicate post even straight away

[Chancer]

Some more comments.

The enduiser managed to do everything with just two knives in one hand and the precut tape in the other whilst making it look like childs play, me I am always up and down the steps to get a cutter, trowel or some other gizmo.

He did not use corner trowels at all and still got a very edge, I have bought a set but cannot get on with them and they are the cause of most of my rework.

I was serious about no rubbing down of his joints, I just briefly de-nibbed in a few places without a block and using absolutely no pressure, one thing I found was a slightly raised (but regular) edge in the internal corner between the walls and ceilings caused by his method of finishing the corners, this could only be removed by scraping but at risk to the adjoining finish. However it was a godsend when cutting in the wall paint as it stopped the paint from spreading to the ceiling, the ridge was not visible when the paint dried and actually defines the corner.

I have found the best jointing tape at Brico-Depot but sometimes you have to search their stock for it, it is pre-creased as Anton said but some of them also have micro-perforations which in effect allow the jopinting compound to rivet the tape in position.

He wouldnt use the sticky mesh tape saying that it led to cracks although I am not certain that he has ever tried it, certainly with his method of applying the paper tape I can't see him ever needing it, he also didn't pre-soak the tape citing the same reason, its been nearly a year without any cracks appearing; by contrast I have seen some other jobs where most joint tape has come away from the skimmed joint which I suspect was due to wetting or overwetting.

[Jules]

I take it from everyones comments that this is going to be a very time consuming job, the plaster board has been well put up by our builder so hopefully this will help.

At this rate it will be done by 2010 as we don't get over to the Somme that often, hence the work has been done by our British builder and French artisans.

Hopefully one of our French neighbours down the road will be able to lend a hand[:)]

All the pointing on the house needs doing as well I dread to think what the quote will be for something like that[blink]

JULES

[Chancer]

The price for pointing in this area is around 60 euros per M2, about the same as for Enduit projetée.

2010 is a bit optimistic as by the time you have waited (and waited) for artisans to come and quote - who wont.  Then waited for the one or few who did come to send the(ir) devis - that won't.  Then having got and accepted a devi and spent at least a year after the agreed start date trying to contact the artisan by mobile phone - which he won't answer.  He may finally decide to do your job.

Sadly this is the known and accepted fact with good tradesman around here, i.e. those worth waiting for.

I am currently in the last stage of the above with a personally recommended Enduiser, it took him some time to come and measure up but the devi arrived by return (a good sign) I returned it signed pronto and asked that he would acknowledege receipt and confirm whether he would still make the (now long passed) agreed date, I have also left many messages since and also my french friend as well.

My friend is in fact directly responsible for most of this artisans work (he is the sales manager for the building company who are the enduiser's main client) despite this he himself has been waiting 18 months for the guy to rectify some cracked enduit at his house.

When I discuss the indifference he tells me straight "it is like that with artisans around here, it is normal, even my patron is like that with our clients" then he tells me what the enduiser would say if I were able to actually get hold of him, the words every artisan, builders merchant etc use to placate patiently waiting customers - "Vous n'avez pas de souci"

And do you know what? I don't, he will turn up one day when it suits him expecting to collect his 50% deposit on start of work, I just hope that that day suits me as well.

Editted.

Jules it will not be at all a time consuming job for a good proffessional, just money consuming, also be aware that some of the French trades that work with English builders are not shall we say particularly proficient and may indeed take a lot of time to do only a half good job.