Metal-framed walling.......

[Ford Anglia]

I gather that this is farly regularly used in France, and we are next looking at using something like it to convert a newly-floored area of 75 sq m into rooms.

Can anyone give me any ideas on:

Sizes of pieces of framing available, and where to buy from.

Can walls be ANY height, or is there a fixed height? (there's no ceiling yet[8-)])

How thick the walls end up when plasterboarded.

Do people generally apply insulation inside interior walls, to cut down noise etc?

Costs of bits.

And finally, do folk plasterboard, then plaster skim, or just apply boards and.........?

Thanks for any advice.

[Bob T]

If you pop along to your local Brico Depot and pick up a cataloge, you will find all the sizes prices and more information on it. I would fit glass wool insulation just for the sound.

[Ford Anglia]

Thanks, I'll do that next time I'm over. We still have to floor-sand, then seal the floor yet.........

[Babbles]

The placo come in sheets a lot longer than standard uk plasterboard we have reasonably high ceilings and there is no join, we had new bathrooms put in so wanted some sound insulation, there's some things you don't want to hear! It was an aditional layer about 5cm thick on the placo and fitted all in one go, so loads quicker, but it doesn't seem to be standard practice to have this fitted we had to ask. Anyway the whole system is very impressive easy to use and quick to istall. Good luck

[Gastines]

And don't forget if you double board ,using different centres so joins are covered, you get a good fire break. There is lots of info on this site if you do a search.

[Chris Head]

Just a word of caution FA.

I saw some 'walls' made out of this stuff for the first time the other week, I made the doors and architrave for the apertures. There was most certainly a little flex in the finished partition and my doors are not light, which worried me a little. The client assured me all would be well...I dunno.

I'll be showing y'all an alternative to plasterboard towards the end of the year....imagine, renovation using materials and techniques based on authenticity! I wonder if Bricodepots plasterboard sales will suffer as a result? And no I'm not telling...and no don't even think about espionage!

[Gastines]

Add-on to Chris's note. If  the base plate and header plate are fixed securely there shouldn't be any movement. The same if the proper fixings are used off wall. Often the uprights are only put in at 600mm centres and should really be at 400mm.Also should be Crimped at joins not just slotted in .  The metal system has many advantages over long runs of stud walling, the biggest problem now being some of the NEW timber sold for studding.

Regards.

[andyh4]

[quote user="Gastines"]

. Often the uprights are only put in at 600mm centres and should really be at 400mm.

Regards.

[/quote]

You sure about that Gastines?

My French DIY book says 60cm and the pasterboard has markings to show where to put the intermediate screws - at 60cm.

 

[Gastines]

Yes.Just expressing an opinion. I used to do miles of it in Superstores and although I often used it at 600mm centres,particularly if double boarding for firebreaks,I still prefer to use400mm on domestic jobs and it only takes a few seconds to line the board for your screws. For the sake of a few more uprights and a couple of dozen screws,I found it well worth the expense and time. Still got all the tools if anyone gets stuck. Retired now and hanging up my crimper!!

Regards.

[Ford Anglia]

So.............is it plaster skimmed, papered, painted, or what, once up?

And if not plastered, how are the cracks hidden?

Thanks for inputs so far.

[Nick Trollope]

My pennorth;

I love this stuff, I've done plenty (and in wood). I (IMHO) wouldn't bother with 40cm centres, but I would always double-up on the vertical at a 120cm joint (where 2 boards join). I'd screw the uprights together and crimp top & bottom.

There will be no flex in a properly studded wall. Screw the plasterboard in every 200mm all 4 sides and up the middle.

I always tape & joint - but I can't plaster. Always looks good enough for paint, although I am very slow - "experts" of my aquaintance are superb and can do a room in hours (not weeks like it takes me!). None of them plaster. In fact all the plasterers I know are Brits.

 

[BIG MAC]

It's simple enough when putting in door linings to plant timber inside the profile of the relevant studs, this greatly increase the rigidity at the vulnerable points and can be further fixed using metal angle brackets if for example fitting a double leaf door set with spring closers.

I haven't used a French crimping tool yet, any nice person got an appropriate linky to one? I wouldn't know it if it landed on my head!

 

 

[andyh4]

Can't remember what it's called, but I spotted it immediately in Castrorama hanging up in the tools section alongside pliers and metal shears.

the carboard support is in several languages and it clearly says for Ossature Plaque to plaitre (sp), plasterboard framing, etc..

[Gastines]

Big Mac, as pointed out, if you are ever near St.Malo I have the cutters/crimpers and trowels/sponge disc for this work. Free loan but I would like them returned.

Regards.

[Ford Anglia]

Cutters and crimpers, OK, but what do the trowels and sponge disc do?[8-)]

[Gastines]

After you've boarded,using bevel-edged boards hopefully, use the stick on joint tape [bandage ] down all the joints. Use a flat trowel to apply the jointing cement,when dry use a wider trowel to apply second coat and if required, use a very wide20-25cm flat trowel to apply the last coat. Don't bulid up over the level of the flat boards. Some workmen use a sanding pole to clean off the edges. Best for ceilings. On walls I used to mix up a very weak mix of jointing cement,a thin slurry, and dip in the flat faced sponge [fixed on a disc for easy handling, a ready made item ] and wash over joints. I found this gave a smoother finish and less liable to damage, furr-up, the plasterboard paper. When dry I used to roller a very thin coat of watered down PVA over the surface. This gives a better coverage for emulsion and a good bond for wallpaper finish as the paste doesn't soak straight into the joins. I will add that like most jobs, different tradesmen have their own way of doing most jobs.

As an add-on. I used to find it a big help on conversion jobs,if you are lucky enough to have a clear floor space as in a complete barn/longere floor, to mark out all the walls/doorways with a straight edge and square with chalk, on the floor. Sometimes this can help to show up the door opening the wrong way etc.

Regards.

[Ford Anglia]

Thanks for that. I hadn't thought of chalking on the plan, but it sounds a good idea.

[Alane]

Brilliant tip to mark out the whole plan first.

I'm also planning to use this system to dry line some existing exterior walls with insulation in between. Is it usual to fix the uprights to the existing walls or to fix them floor and ceiling, independent of the existing external wall?

Also - in this case is it necessary to leave an air gap between the insulation and external wall?

On another point - the UK guides show angled steel used for interior and exterior corners, eg around window reveals but this doesn't seem to be available in France - have I missed something?

[Gastines]

I think you can get a guide to the studding from most suppliers. I know Gyproc do quite a comprehensive booklet. You may find that with all the odd shapes you come across in older timber frames that you have to be a bit inventive. Regarding putting a stud wall off an old granit wall, as the older walls aren't usually true,being thicker at base and tapering up, I used to fix base and top plate and then put some bars fixed back onto the granit wall to prevent any movement/bounce. You can buy spacing bars to go between your uprights that just clip in. Crimping joints is flatter than using screws on uprights. Always worth checking the actual board size for plasterboard and if you are laying floors, the size of chipboard/stirling board panel, as the sizes here are not the same as UK boards.

When doing a longere up that we had many years ago, the beams had obviously dipped over the 7metre length. As the floor boards were soft and more holes than timber , I found it easier to lay a complete water-proof/treated chipboard panel floor. I laid a 4"x2" [100mmx50mm] raft over the entire floor which enabled me to block up above the beams to get a level floor to work on. I battened on each side of the beam underneath filled the cavity with rockwool and then plasterboarded the gaps,giving a decent finish bit still showing the beams. This obviously uses a fair amount of timber but as I was stripping out MFI stores at the time I had loads. Amazing what these frms leave behind, from Safes/Kitchens/ladders/rows of Dexion Speedlock/pallet lifters etc, then they go and buy a new lot for the next store. Good for me while it lasted. From one store in Bugsby Way London ,I had 4 large dustbins of double sockets and platerboard boxes and enough NEW carpet to do our house and half of a daughters. However I transgress.

Regards.Retired.

[Nick Trollope]

[quote user="Gastines"]

However I transgress.

[/quote]

You do indeed Mrs Malaprop...

This site is quite useful;

http://www.lafargeplasterboard.co.uk/drywall_manual/default.html

 

[Dave&Olive]

hi

ok or here http://www.placo.fr/bpb_fr/

  Dave