Stefan Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 We are in the final stages of having our brand new central heating installed, and we're not happy.We specified a central heating system using TRVs, and with the boiler controlled by a timer/programmer. The installer was very keen to use an exterior "sonde", we declined this option because we understand they can be unreliable, and because we'd always been very happy with the timer/programmer system we'd had in the UK.The installer has now explained the operation of the newly installed boiler to us, and it seems that this boiler (Ideal Standard Geodis Ci-Bi) is supplied with and designed to operate with an exterior "sonde", and indeed it's integral programmer relies on this. Since the "sonde" hasn't been installed the only control we have over the boiler is the on/off switch.[:(]It seems that the only way we can get the system to operate in the way we want is to add a timer/programmer - does anyone know if that is possible with this kind of boiler?? Thanks in advanceStefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gluestick Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 One we've discussed here before.Nothing to stop you placing a timeclock in series with the existing On-Off switch. That will switch the boiler on and off at the times you desire.Retro-fitting a programmer, might be quite complicated, since the newer breed of controls use a form of "Mapping", rather like the ECU in a car.The exterior detector is to act as mainly a frost stat: that said, they can measure a range of exterior ambient conditions and adjust the progarmme accordingly.State-of-the-Art heating controls now link digital room and tanks stats, together with flow detectors in key pipes, exterior detectors nad comprehensive clocks which know the month of the year and the recored performance last year and the year before that. hence "Mapping".Thus programmers, which hitherto controlled either the circulating pump and/or the demand valves, can now often be fully integrated with the boiler and are thus type-specific. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ford Anglia Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 As Gluey says, I'd go for a simple in line timeclock.My boiler, a Buderus, has a fully digital programmer/stat, with external and internal stats, flow sensors etc etc. It even learns how long it takes to reach a certain temperature so as to switch on earlier and have it to that temperature by the time selected[geek]HOWEVER: it has taken me about two years of short breaks there to come to terms with it![8-)]The first year I set it to check for frost, and come on accordingly, but inadvertenly set it wrongly and it used an ENORMOUS amount of gas over the winter[:@] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan Posted July 17, 2007 Author Share Posted July 17, 2007 Thanks both for your very prompt replies.I guess it's a bit late to ask if "basic" boilers ( by which I mean something that just has a internal thermostat) are sold here...Given this is all water under the bridge we are probably stuck with the new boiler and to get any contol over the thing it looks like we will have to ask for the exterior sonde to be fitted. However we have heard they are very unreliable or is it just, as Ford Anglia said, are they just darned difficult to set up properly - any thoughts?Another fly in the ointment is that in our original specification for time clock controlled boiler we also specified TRVs on all the radiators - is there now going to be a conflict between the boiler ( now controlled by the fancy programmer) and the TRVs trying to control flow to the individual Rads [8-)] ? regards and thanks.Stefan (09) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gluestick Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 Stefan:Not hard to retrofit TRVs. There should be no direct conflict. Unless you have a room thermostat for each room, then obviously TRVs are a good idea.Mapped systems tend to "Zone" houses into areas. The lounge in the evening obviously needs to be much warmer than the kitchen in the morning: etc.However, before going any further, I suggest that you ask the installer for a complete specification and in particular ask whether any flow detectors/valves have been fitted; whether any pipe temp 'stats and etc.As Ford Anglia says, the complex digital "Mapped" controllers require a significant investment in learning time from the user; and learning time for themselves! This is because they literally "Map" and remember everything and relate temperature of an area to a season and date!And yes, of course you can still buy simple CH boilers and systems.I don't think exterior detectors/stats/controllers are any more unreliable than anything else.The main problem seems to be poor siting and positioning by installers! For example, positioned so that extreme weather can drive in!If you think in terms of digital "Memory" room stats, these "Know" that the user wants a higher room temp at night than first thing in the morning. And a lower room temp in Spring than mid-Winter. And so on.All very clever, yet perhaps far too clever?Please post some more once you have the specs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jc Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 If the installer gave you the full instruction book-not just the short one that tells you how to switch it on or off-there will normally be full instructions for installing all types of control systems.If you haven't got it,ask him for it or go to the boiler manufacturer's website where you can normally download it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shimble Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 willl a timer that connects in your main electric fuse board work ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gluestick Posted July 17, 2007 Share Posted July 17, 2007 If the boiler circuit has been wired in on a dedicated circuit as it should be, of course. Good idea! [:)] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan Posted July 20, 2007 Author Share Posted July 20, 2007 A belated thanks for all your replies, were seeing the plumber again next week so we should, hopefully, be able to come up with a solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shimble Posted July 20, 2007 Share Posted July 20, 2007 oh good i thought maybe i was missing something im glad that would work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stefan Posted August 4, 2007 Author Share Posted August 4, 2007 Thanks again for all the repiles, the plumber has now put the sonde on for us and fitted TRVs so we've got our fingers crossed for Winter - at which point I'll probably be back on here asking for advice about "mapping" and all the other complexities of these systems[:)].RegardsStefan (09) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victor Meldrew Posted August 22, 2007 Share Posted August 22, 2007 We had a new boiler installed last year and had the same problem regarding the programmer. (it would appear that French plumbers do not know that people do not want their heating on all of the time nor do not want to regulate it manualy.We bought a Legrand in line timer which fits into the fuseboard from Leroy Merlin for approx Euros 90 which sets its self automatically, so you do not need to reset it if you have a power cut or indeed when the clocks go back or forward, it works perfectly and was very easy to install.Hope this is of assistance.Victor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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