Gas bottles in cave sous sol?

[TWINKLE]

We have our two bottles stored in a little alcove with it's own little red tiled roof outside tucked by between the house and our drive - you can't see it. 

Nobody knows it's there except for my fairy friends[:)]

[WJT]

Your little gas house sounds very sweet. [:)]

Unfortunately, we wouldn't be able to do that in our situation. Perhaps because it's situated just outside the cave, it may be OK where it is. However it is still enclosed and is situated against the exterior wall of the front of the house. I guess we will have to investigate.

[woolybananasbrother]

Ideally it should have some sort of air circulation to dilute and or drive away any possible concentration from a leak which would be potentially explosive of course. Cellars are the worst possible option as gas sinks and concentrates and can't get out.

[Gluestick]

When the new kitchen goes in, I'm planning to site a pair of manifolded bottles in the garage/workshop and run copper or steel microbore piping (8-10 m.m.) right through the greniere and then down into the kitchen with the final regulator adjacent to the new range cooker.

Quite a long run as the greniere is nearly 30 metres long and the kitchen sits only 7 metres from the far end.............

 

[chessfou]

Interesting.

Butane - indoors

Propane - outdoors.

The Primagaz site has all kinds of useful details, not least the safety regs:

http://www.primagaz.fr/primagaz/3/doc/Documentation/Les_regles_de_securite.pdf

Despite the fact that the safety regs document says that bottles should not be stored "en sous-sol" it is pretty clear that they are fine in our sous-sol. How so? Well, aside from the fact that our sous-sol is fairly voluminous (ca. 80m3), it also has two external doors (which face each other) at ground level and which provide plenty of ventilation (in practice, if there should be any escape of gas, it should float down and out the back door into the garden - the s-s slopes very slightly end to end, with the gas at the upper end, and significantly front to back). At least I think so, anyone think different?

It does sound like any "cave" will be ruled out.

[Le Plombier]

I cringe when I read some of these postings

I am gas qualified in France

If you go to the website Qualigaz.com your can purchase an illustrated book which explains the gas regulations for about 25 euros

Butane only inside the property, only 2.6 kilogram or 6.5 litres bottle

Do not use steel pipe, copper pipe only, brazure forte but brazure tendre is permissible under 40mbar, all solders, fittings, joints, washers,etc.etc must comply with the regs, together with the actual pipe route

In all cases, almost without exception you need to obtain a certificate of conformity for the installation or the installation will not be valid

The gas regulations apply to all bottle installations just as they do for butane cisterns and natural gas supplies

If anyone does any gas work for you ensure they are going to issue a certificate of conformity

As well as the gas supply you must comply in every respect with ventilation requirements

In the event of a gas leak or the emission of carbon monoxide fumes it is the ventilation that will probably save your life

Over 300 people die in France each year as a result of faulty or badly installed gas appliances

The regulations here are stringent, to the extent that we qualified professionals receive non conformances on an average of 9% of the Qualigaz audits and we know what we are doing

When you put your house on the market, since November of last year, a gas diagnostic is required along with the termite, asbestos ,etc checks

If you don't put it in right now your will have to put it right to be able to sell your house

If you are unsure of the staus of your installation for about 100 euros Qualigaz will visit your property and carry out a diagnostic survey to confirm complianme

At the end of the day I know I can sleep peacefully at night knowing my installation is safe, certified and professionally installed

Le Plombier

[TWINKLE]

Four whole pages and at last the blinking plumber turns up! 

There is a terrible shortage of them in France have you noticed?

[chessfou]

[quote]only 2.6 kilogram or 6.5 litres bottle[/quote][Le Plombier]

So, you are saying that what Primagaz state on their web-site is contrary to the law:

13kg butane (24kg-13kg butane=11kg empty)

Stockage : à l’intérieur de la maison

http://www.primagaz.fr/majic/pageServer/0t030000o9/fr/Catalogue-Bouteilles-Particulier.html

That doesn't seem likely to me since they would be laying themselves open to punitive fines.

[Sunday Driver]

The Primagaz website also has a page detailing the safety rules for using bottled gas in the home:

Les bouteilles de gaz doivent toujours être utilisées en position debout dans des pièces disposant d'un volume suffisant et possédant une ventilation permanente.

Les bouteilles de gaz ne doivent pas être stockées à proximité de matières inflammables, d'une source de chaleur ou d'un rayonnement susceptible de porter la température des bouteilles à plus de 50 °C.

Lorsque la bouteille de gaz est stockée dans un espace clos lui servant de logement (meuble, placard), celui-ci doit être en matière incombustible et doit comporter des ouvertures d'aérations hautes et basses qui ne doivent jamais être obstruées.

Les bouteilles de gaz vides ou pleines ne doivent pas être stockées en sous-sol, ni placées à proximité d'ouvertures de locaux situés en contrebas (le butane et le propane sont plus lourds que l'air ambiant).

 

[tangledweb]

I can't believe people dipsense advice about gas safety on this site... Even more incredible is that people take the advice, much of it wrong.  (Although some of it is very accurate the reader is unlikely to be capable of distinguishing).  

I urge all, in the interests of safety, not to give advice or take it on this subject, other that is, than to say 'GET A REGISTERED EXPERT'.  I have asked a moderator and Admin to remove the thread but it seems they are not familiar with the concept of 'Duty of Care'  (no insult intended Mods...).  I felt as a responsible good looking adult I should try to warn you all.

Kev

PS

Can anyone tell me how to remove a small tumor seated in the cerebral cortex of my mother's brain?  I am pretty sure it has not breached the cortex and is sitting between it and the skull.  I have got a 'Rimmel' and a hacksaw.  Will I need anything else and will she need..... wait for it.... gas??

Don't laugh!  At least if your advice is wrong only one person dies ... If the gas advise is wrong maybe many could die....

 

[Pads]

[quote user="tangledweb"]

 I felt as a responsible good looking adult I should try to warn you all.

Kev

PS

Can anyone tell me how to remove a small tumor seated in the cerebral cortex of my mother's brain?  I am pretty sure it has not breached the cortex and is sitting between it and the skull.  I have got a 'Rimmel' and a hacksaw.  Will I need anything else and will she need..... wait for it.... gas??

Don't laugh!  At least if your advice is wrong only one person dies ... If the gas advise is wrong maybe many could die....

 

[/quote]

I take your point and your right !! but what i really want to know is just how good looking are you ? time for a picture I think to back that statement up...........[;-)]

You dont need a hacksaw .... just a pair of tweezers inserted in the ear will do ........[:$]

your so bad !!!!!![:-))]

[tangledweb]

I have nearly all my own teeth which I brush each mornming and put into my mouth. 

My breath problem is almost cured now simply by eating raw fish and strong cheese each day, it reduces the intensly vicious odour!  I have one leg 4 inches shorter than the other but my hump causes me to stoop and reduces the effect.  I have most of my hair but I am thinking of cutting it coz I cannot get my shirts on anymore.  I did suffer from the 'breaking of the wind' but since my last prolapse dare not!

My skin is pock marked and yellowish white but some people like that.... Or so my mum used to tell me. 

I am a considerate lover, indeed I consider it most times I see a woman, ferret or any other creature.  I have been only charges for this 'consideration' 3 times and the last of my restraining orders expires next month.  (I di not even know a badger cold get a RO!!).

If you need to know any more feel free to PM me..  I suspect I could be in the Moderators' bad books if I go on... on open forum.

Kev

Beggger... my right index finger just fell off... Did I mention the leprocy? bloomin heck now my spelling will get even worse.

[darnsarf]

We had a new kitchen installed last month. In order to save cupboard space, I asked the plumber (who also fitted our new boiler) about our Butane cylinder being sited in the basement and a pipe connecting it to the range being drilled through the 1metre thick wall between the two. He did it and didn't mention anything about the regs - the cellar contains 1500 litres of oil for the boiler, which is sited 2-3 metres away from the bottle - eek!. I suppose now I'm going to have to establish whether the position of the bottle is OK and then contemplate an extraction blower of some sort as well as a firebreak between the boiler and the bottle.  Despite being a boat owner (and thus aware of the heavier than air thing), I confess it didn't occur to me for a house! Just goes to show the value of the forum I guess! I suppose if you ask a Plumber a question, you sort of expect advice that corresponds to the regs. Although the cellar is about 80 square metres, the bit with the bottle and boiler is about 20cms lower than the rest - so a nice gas sump..

[Pads]

Stop weavering now before I come knocking on your door !![:D][:D]

[jondeau]

Personally I would not install gas bottles in a cellar........but if you are set on doing it why not fit an LPG gas detector as well.?

 

[tangledweb]

[quote user="darnsarf"]We had a new kitchen installed last month. In order to save cupboard space, I asked the plumber (who also fitted our new boiler) about our Butane cylinder being sited in the basement and a pipe connecting it to the range being drilled through the 1metre thick wall between the two. He did it and didn't mention anything about the regs - the cellar contains 1500 litres of oil for the boiler, which is sited 2-3 metres away from the bottle - eek!. I suppose now I'm going to have to establish whether the position of the bottle is OK and then contemplate an extraction blower of some sort as well as a firebreak between the boiler and the bottle.  Despite being a boat owner (and thus aware of the heavier than air thing), I confess it didn't occur to me for a house! Just goes to show the value of the forum I guess! I suppose if you ask a Plumber a question, you sort of expect advice that corresponds to the regs. Although the cellar is about 80 square metres, the bit with the bottle and boiler is about 20cms lower than the rest - so a nice gas sump..[/quote]

Yes I see your point and agree the situation does show the value of the forum.  I wonder why the UK don't just do away with BS and other standards and use forums... Europe could do the same. 

Just coz one or two plumbers are twits does not mean all are.  There are differnt levels of plumber.  Some may work on gas and SOME MAY NOT.   Often unfortunately those who may not... DO. 

Kev

PS

You do not know what you do not know.