family purchase and when to have the survey

[SarahK]

Evening all,

Hoping you can advise me on the following - totally new to the buying in France thing and struggling to get to grips with the differences of system! So here goes...

We have had an offer accepted on a house near Monflanquin. My husband and I are buying this with my parents... has anyone done anything similar or have similar situation, if so, any advice on whose name(s) the propert should best be in?

Secondly does the CdV have to be signed by all of us if we are all ultimately going to be named owners or can one of us do it on behalf of us all?

Finally, we want to have a survey done on the property. Do you recommend that this is done pre signing the CdV?

Many thanks in advance!
Sarah

[Just Katie]

Hi Sarah,

If you want to instruct a surveyor, make sure they are chartered with RICS.  This is because it is a mandatory requirement they carry professional indemnity insurance and, should they give the wrong advice or miss something you can complain to RICS and you know there is an insurance in place should you wish to make a claim.

 

http://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/1036368/ShowPost.aspx

http://www.rics.org/

If you go onto RICS, click on find a surveyor, France, you should find one near to you.

 

[woolybanana]

You raise several issues, but one at a time. If you get a surveyor you must try to find one with experience of old French properties (I assume you wish to buy an old house) because one who has only ever seen English ticky tacky might have a heart attack if s/he saw how these places really are. Made of mud and stone, no damp course, woodworm, sliding tiles ........ BUT they have been standing and mainly lived in for hundreds of years in many cases.

You make the CdV subject to satisfactory survey (a clause suspensif it is called).

[woolybanana]

As regards names on the paperwork, usually all owners must sign in person but there can be ways round it if the notaire will accept them. They dont like it though. But I would be surprised if he allowed a coowner to sign in these circumstances.

Which names? Well, if the parents in question are elderly and/or in bad health then there is obviously a problem. My gut feeling is that property should be held by the younger members of the group. If there is a loan then the liability to repay etc could be covered by a separate contract.

Just a thought.

[Ron Avery]

Just curious, but does the RICS cover surveyors in France and if so, does their imdemnity stretch to paying damages for errors made in surveying a building in France, given as WB suggests building regs etc and standards are somewhat different in France to the UK?

Whilst using a member of the RICS is essential in the UK, is this qualification recognised in the EU in the same way that accountancy qualifications are recognised worldwide?

[woolybanana]

The implication in the post before mine is that there are RICS surveyors working in France though I suppose they would have to have French cover.

I've always wondered how it would be possible to devise and apply building regs to an old place like mine. Even the presale survey only touched the surface in a few technical areas.

Which is why I think I would advise potential buyers to get a good builder to look at a place.

[Nicos]

Not quite the same...but when we bought our house, the Vendor's wife couldn't make the signing, and the notaire accepted a letter from her giving her husband authority to sign on her behalf.

Maybe it could work the other way- I think you must ask the notaire .

[Deimos]

I would agree with that for several reasons.  Every full structural survey I have ever had done has basically been a list of clauses as to why the surveyor could not be liable for this that and the other.  Then you get the recommendations from them that a plumber should look at the plumbing, and electrician look at the... .

Definitely remember that French building practices are very different to UK ones so unless somebody has a lot of experience of the French standards it will be a waste of money.  Also remember that the French  standards have changed over time and an old property might not comply with every present day standard; but would comply with the standards at the time it was built or the work done; plus it has then stood the test of time as it still works and is still standing, etc.

In the UK a lot of people use a survey as a method of reducing the price; the surveyor saving you more than the cost of the survey type of thing.  In France, having a survey is not a normal so you might find out if work needs doing but are unlikely to get a reduced price.

No expert but I would expect that if a CdV has a "subject to satisfactory survey" clause then you would also have to define what "satisfactory" means.  Finding a few chips of paint and a cracked tile would not allow you to pull out.  But then t comes down to attitude and if you want to pull-out or the vendors might not have the same attitude as you.

Damp is a classic thing.  What I (probably incorrectly) call "rubble construction" needs damp to hold it together.  Inject a damp proof treatment and you will end-up with a pile of rubble ad the "mixture" holding the stones together needs to stay moist for strength.  at least that is what I am told (I'm no builder).  French do not have the same obsession about damp as the British do.  It is quite normal and allow a house to "breath" and is no problem.

Personally, these days I only ever buy older properties.  They were built to last and time has proven this to be the case.  More modern properties are built for profit and every penny spent on build quality is a penny less profit and less for the directors/shareholders.  Personally I'd always go with the builder.

Ian

[cooperlola]

I do know one family in a similar situation (although only vaguely, I'm afraid) and they set up a limited company with everybody as partners when they bought the house.  They had been advised that this was the best way to circumvent the complex inheritence laws in the event of the death of one of the joint owners.  But I would seek legal advice. Much depends on whether there are any siblings - if the house was in your parents' names and either one of them died, then their share of the house would automatically be divided between all their children - so if either of you has siblings who are not involved in the venture, then they would get part of your home.

On the other hand, if the house is in your names, then your parents' investment is unprotected.  This may seem fine to them now but if you fall out, they are left with nothing. 

Definately see a notaire before you sign.

[Just Katie]

[quote user="Ron Avery"]

Just curious, but does the RICS cover surveyors in France and if so, does their imdemnity stretch to paying damages for errors made in surveying a building in France, given as WB suggests building regs etc and standards are somewhat different in France to the UK?

Whilst using a member of the RICS is essential in the UK, is this qualification recognised in the EU in the same way that accountancy qualifications are recognised worldwide?

[/quote]

Yes Ron, RICS is certainly recognised worldwide and, a Chartered Surveyor practicing in France would need to know about French issues or run the risk of being sued from giving duff info!

[SarahK]

Thank you all for your help with this.

[gfplux]

Hello SarahK.

I am rather surprised no one has raised the issue of inheritance. Do you know about French inheritance laws? If not this is something you should research IMMEDIATELY before you sign anything.

[woolybanana]

One of my earlier posts did try to raise it in the context of ownership but in an indirect way so as not to cause offence.  gfplux is very right to reinforce it though.