fisherman Posted January 10, 2011 Share Posted January 10, 2011 HiI apologise if this question has been asked before.I will be running a spur from the fuse box to the kitchen of our French house.I am comfortable with the requirements for an ECB and Double pole breakers in the fuse box and running through conduit etc.I have a lot of tri rated 2.5mm flexible cable in the appropriate colours from when I used to build industrial machinery.Does anybody know if it is permissible to use this cable or do I have to use solid core cable. Many thanks for your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyh4 Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 I am not an electrician, but my understanding is that solid core (not braided) must be used throughout for all installations. Braided flex is only permissible as that a flex connection from a plug to an appliance. also all three wires must have individual sheathing - so the commonly found bare earth is also not permitted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quillan Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 [quote user="andyh4"]I am not an electrician, but my understanding is that solid core (not braided) must be used throughout for all installations. Braided flex is only permissible as that a flex connection from a plug to an appliance. also all three wires must have individual sheathing - so the commonly found bare earth is also not permitted.[/quote]Funny enough I was going to say the same but like you I am not a proper sparky. The little bits I have done I have copied, down to the materials used, what others have installed in my house before me. My English speaking electrician did mention years ago about a holiday home that had been renovated and rewired by an English chap who had used 'twin and earth', when EDF found out they disconnected him (well his house). I remember years ago an old member saying he had done the same but had gone one step further and put 13A sockets in his house. I can understand the logic to a degree but it is as somebody said it's illegal(?) in France not to mention how French people would react if he ever wanted to sell the place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ventodue Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 Good question [:)]. I shall wait to see the replies because this is something I've asked before elsewhere and never really had a definitive reply - that is to say, one that was evidenced by either science or by reference to regulation. When I was at building college in the UK in the '80s, I seem to remember being told that the main reason for NOT using cable for permanent installations was simply because of the expense involved. (I also understand that there may be a notional voltage drop, but that this is not of practical consequence). But I don't see why you couldn't use it as you suggest - after all, all those appliances that you connect into the socket afterwards are all wired up using flex ...P.s I believe the reason twin and earth isn't acceptable in France is because the earth is uninsulated which isn't allowed under the NF.AmicalementCraig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger LX Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 If your tri-rated conductors are of a harmonised type then there is no reason or French regulation that prevents you from doing as you suggest (that is, single insulted wires inside conduit/gaine). You could wire an entire property in flex if you were so inclined (& rich enough to afford it). However, given the trend for push wire connections these days using flex would give you a headache finding decent accessories that will accept it, or force you to use cheap screw terminal equipment only, which would my personal idea of hell..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisherman Posted January 11, 2011 Author Share Posted January 11, 2011 Thanks for your advice. I know that there was no good technical reason why I should not use tri rated, but regulations can be perverse,Im not rich but just happen to have a load of cable which is too good to scrap & probably would not get its value if I was to try to sell it.I have a very small house so the run is not too long and should not be too much of a pain getting through the conduit.I will crimp on bootlace ferrules to make a decent connection on the ends.Again thank you all for your help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted January 11, 2011 Share Posted January 11, 2011 I am currently living your idea of hell Badger [:D] not one of my better ideas in hindsight [:(]I had not dreamed that from the time I initially filled the gaines and did the first fix that screw terminal prises murales would have all but dissapeared, I finally found some in Castorama and ordered a few hundred but they are very moche!Being the cost cutter that I am the goal was to use 2 cheap single sockets side by side as I did in the past, these rounded Casto prises do look odd fixed together, the only saving grace is that the flexible cable makes the impossible possible and was, perhaps still is much cheaper than gaine préfilée. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
powerdesal Posted January 12, 2011 Share Posted January 12, 2011 [quote user="ventodue"]Good question [:)]. I shall wait to see the replies because this is something I've asked before elsewhere and never really had a definitive reply - that is to stay, one that was evidenced by either science or by reference to regulation. When I was at building college in the UK in the '80s, I seem to remember being told that the main reason for NOT using cable for permanent installations was simply because of the expense involved. (I also understand that there may be a notional voltage drop, but that this is not of practical consequence). But I don't see why you couldn't use it as you suggest - after all, all those appliances that you connect into the socket afterwards are all wired up using flex ...P.s I believe the reason twin and earth isn't acceptable in France is because the earth is uninsulated which isn't allowed under the NF.AmicalementCraig[/quote] Not only is the earth in twin+earth uninsulated but the csa of the earth conductor is less than the csa of each of the live + neutral cores, this is also against French Normes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG MAC Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 Just for the hard of thinking that means say 2.5mm phase and neutral would require at least 5mm earth? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted January 17, 2011 Share Posted January 17, 2011 No, 2.5mm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sprout Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 3 core flexible cable is ok providing you have the right cross section ie 1.5mm for lighting 2.5mm for sockets and the colour code is correct... blue --Neutral. red-- Positive, green/yellow -- Earth. Both flexible(souple) and solid(rigided)Both are sold the difference is in the price flexible is more expensive..it is more forgiving in tight area's and for connection.. Solid you have to be more cautious when you make connections that you dont move them around too much that could fracture the wire..Hope that helps.?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 Tha phase can be any colour you like other than blue or green/yellow but in a 3 core cable is most likely to be brown or red. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Théière Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 [quote user="Chancer"]Tha phase can be any colour you like other than blue or green/yellow but in a 3 core cable is most likely to be brown or red.[/quote]Is that still true? After harmonisation to EU colours all countries are supposed to be using the same since 1 April 2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chancer Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 According to my last Consuel inspection it was, I have sice used grey for live 2 in some of my gaines, might have to use the heat shrink sleeving again!I expect the manufacturers have slowly started complying but as for site work I reckn France will lag several years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger LX Posted January 22, 2011 Share Posted January 22, 2011 The harmonisation shown is only applicable to three-phase supplies & wiring. Once you drop down to single phase circuits then any colour can be used for live apart from those already mentioned. It would be a real pain if all lives were the same as the different colours available in France make it very simple to distinguish between lamp returns, va et vient, fil pilote etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BIG MAC Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 How does fil pilote work? is it simply a switched live from a central stat -programmer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger LX Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 No, not just a switched live. It is used to transmit various signals which are interpreted by the device/s being controlled, normally heating. There is a standard so that all devices will respond in the same way to the same signal, but not all devices have the capability of the full "6 ordres". There's a handy guide here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Department71 Posted January 30, 2011 Share Posted January 30, 2011 Many many years ago when we first purchased our holiday home and before I was wise ( some say i'm still not) I brought a load of twin and earth from the UK to rewire said house, upon finding this unacceptable I had two options take the whole lot back and purchase single core cable in France or the UK, or as I did strip the T & E take out the earth wire and buy single core french earth wire, plus also the gaine to put it in. The unused earth wire came in useful binding various things over the years.Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fisherman Posted January 30, 2011 Author Share Posted January 30, 2011 If it was not for the internet being so good I think I would make the same mistake. The French regulations seem to be always just slightly different than the UK. I research everything on line now before I start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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