Log burners, again sorry

[crossy67]

We are going to be installing our stove later this week, possible today, wish me luck.

We have a 6" flexible flue liner and want to have it connected to the rear of the burner and the burner placed against the wall as flat as possible.  I am thinking of a 90 degree elbow into the liner, would a length of solid pipe be needed or would I be ok going log burner, 90 elbow, felxy liner?

Some butcher destroyed our stone fireplace previously and covered it up with asbestos sheet.  We remove the sheet and most of the plaster so I am planning on bricking up the old hole properly with a vent into the basement underneath and the flue poking out through a hole in the wall.  Any one got any tips, advice or opinions please feel free to share them.  I would love to install a new stone surround but it might be a bit to much of a job given the time frame we have.  That and Mrs C wants it in a different place[Www].

Just out of interest, where would be a good place to find a used old stone fire place around 16 or 24?

Thanks.

Ian

[Alex H]

[quote user="crossy67"]

Just out of interest, where would be a good place to find a used old stone fire place around 16 or 24?

[/quote]

Possibly here http://www.reclamation-yard.com  in Confolens, but you may need to take your life savings with you :-)

[just john]

It may be worth going to Confolen, to see and photograph stuff, but you'll certainly get a reality check; we tried to buy Oak beams and some original tomette quarry tiles but everything was about twice new retail, trop cher!.
In the event we took a photo of a fireplace we like in a local house and a drawing of our dimensions to the quarry Constant et Fils @ 24310 Paussac et Saint-Vivien, they cut one out of local stone for us at about half local retail price. There is another Stone yard Martrenchard taille de pierre, Saint-léon-sur-l'isle 24110, D3 but we haven't had time to visit them yet.

[crossy67]

Jesus John, you are the font of all knowledge.  I am thinking of inserting it now (I had a word this am[;-)]) and will need a stone hearth cutting so sit it on.  Those contacts are perfect.

[DorothyJ]

I can see no problem with the 90 degree elbow into the liner, just the visual element if the liner is on view. Peter

[frexpt]

[quote user="Alex H"][quote user="crossy67"]

Just out of interest, where would be a good place to find a used old stone fire place around 16 or 24?


[/quote]

Possibly here http://www.reclamation-yard.com  in Confolens, but you may need to take your life savings with you :-)


[/quote]

We took a trip down there a couple of months ago, looking for interior doors.  Didn't find what we wanted, but did notice a very nice fireplace, priced at around 1200 euros............[:)]

[LesFlamands]

[quote user="crossy67"]We have a 6" flexible flue liner and want to have it connected to the rear of the burner and the burner placed against the wall as flat as possible.  I am thinking of a 90 degree elbow into the liner, would a length of solid pipe be needed or would I be ok going log burner, 90 elbow, felxy liner

[/quote]

You need to use the correct adaptor between the 90 degree elbow and the flexible tube. Also this should be accessible. The other solution if you have space is to bring the liner out through the wall and fit the adaptor on the flue outlet of the stove but the bend radius will be larger than an elbow.

[crossy67]

Many many changes of plans.

I have persuaded Mrs C it would be better going in the fire place so no need for an elbow, just straight up the chimney now.

Now for the other big change!

I braved the 30 foot drop today and climbed onto the roof, then I shimmied up the chimney all the way to the top.  I tied a heavy thing to the end of a length of rope and dropped it down the hole.  It arrived in the living room without event so I tied it to the flue liner, got Julie to get ready to feed it up the hole and returned to the roof.  Once there I again shimmied up the chimney (scary) and started pulling.  It came along easily enough for about 6 foot then stopped dead.  I pulled and pulled but nothing, no movement.  I returned down to the basement and took a look.  Julie was doing a grand job but no joy.  I pulled the liner back out the chimney and peered up.  About 2 meters up there is a steel bar going from one side to the other, bisecting the hole completely, then there was another one about another 2 meters up.  The chimney hole is only 8inches square so there is no way a liner is ever going up there.

I am going to have to see if you really can use a burner without a liner.  Still, it will save me some money I suppose.

So if any one wants 10 meters of new 6" flue liner complete with fitting kit let me know [8-)]

[powerdesal]

And of course you had a safety harness on, secured to a strong point............you did didn't you?????????????????????

[Cendrillon]

[8-)]

I am going to have to see if you really can use a burner without a liner.

I think it's a legal requirement, isn't it?

P.D. is making a good point, just remember Nigel on The Archers[blink]

[mint]

Hey, Crossy, there are a fair few people on here who are relying on you to survive long enough to organise that lunch in July!

More seriously, we had an external flue (insulated stainless steel) to avoid any wet trade in the house.  I don't think it's the most elegant solution and you might not want to spoil the looks of your house in a village that is so much on show as Aubeterre.

[crossy67]

I had a rope tied to me at one end and the other to the house.  Idea being, if I fell then I would pull some heavy house parts with me that should follow me down to finish me off so I wouldn't suffer much. 

Seriously though, I was tied off at both ends.

A legal requirement?  There is absolutely no way I could ever get a flue up, I would struggle to get a 4" on in (oohh errr Mrs)

Don't worry, I won't be going there again if I can help it.  I will leave Julie with instructions and a recipe for curry each and every time I go up, honest.

[just john]

Probably a not a bad idea to get the sapeurs pompiers in for some assistance, they may well advise it's better to knock a few holes in the chimney breast to remove the tie bars and getting the liner up rather than them coming back to put out a chimney fire?[Www]

[sid]

A legal requirement??? [:-))] Isn't this another myth? how on earth could this ever be controlled? I suspect it is a standard, or code of good practice though.

There must be thousands, if not millions, of households without flue liners, all self-installed years ago probably.

However, I wait to be proved wrong... please point to a reference.

I think these things work better with a liner, it is safer from a fire-risk, the draw is more controlled and of course it's easier to keep clean, so it's definitely recommended, but legally required....? Nah, surely not?

 

[crossy67]

Legal requirement or not, I am going to have to go flueless, I have two bits of 1" rebar causing a restriction about 6 foot up the flue going in one direction then another about 9 foot up between the two ceiling and floor then another between the other floor.  Our chimney is in very good condition, needs a sweep but it's only 8" square so I should get good draw.  I am going to fit a register plate at the top of the fire place and fit a meter of stainless pipe on the top that the black pipe from the burner will fit into.  The chimney by the stainless will get filled with high temp cement so when the chimney is swept the soot won't gather between the flue and chimney.  That's the theory any way, fingers crossed.  Removing the rebar would mean making holes in the living room wall, no biggy but then I would have to remove the flooring in two rooms and then make holes in the chimney again.

[sid]

Crossy

I found that we had exactly this situation in our house - that is - a fitted burner with less than a metre of tubing going up through the register plate. The job was done by the previous (English) owner. No sign of the Gendarmes. I didn't pick it up on the house viewing ( [:-))] ) how many people peer up the chimney I wonder, but it was picked up on the first visit of the chimney sweep. He said it was very dangerous. Nevertheless it stayed that way for some considerable time until we had a new more efficient and controllable woodburner fitted - with "credit impots" too! The chauffagiste insisted that we had a new liner. The danger is that soot falls down onto the plate below the level of the top of the pipe and is very difficult to remove without taking off the register plate and making a mess!

Your suggestion of filling the void could (should) work.

People with open fires don't have liners, but it is obviously safer and easier to maintain a system with a liner.

I suggest that you start a regular cleaning (sweeping) schedule; it's not difficult, and not messy if you take precautions (dust sheets, sealing the opening, good vacuum cleaner - don't use the regular hoover or madame will be cross!), and have an annual one for the certificate if you feel that is necessary.

[crossy67]

My conscience got the better of me today.  I measured where the restrictions were and set about removing them.  The first two were easy, two round bars just under the plaster in the living room, looked for the rusty patch, chip off and pull out.  The next two were a pain to do.  Measure them accurately then remove bricks from the chimney in the living room right at the top by the ceiling then at arms reach attack the 2"x1/4" flat bad with a grinder through the small hole.  Eventually got the first one out then measured the second one.  Luckily it was in the loft space so I set about removing one of the stones from the chimney, got the stone out and there was the steel, right in front of me.  Cut this one out with the grinder and we were ready to go. 

Julie suggested I tried the cone that goes over the end of the flue when it's being pulled up.  I put the cone in the hole I had just maid in the loft space and the bloody thing won't fit!  The chimney is only 5" wide for most of its length but 8" at the top and bottom.  There was no way of knowing this by looking at it from the top or bottom.  I am gutted to say the least.

so, it's back to plan A, with a length of stainless flue liner sitting on to of a register plate back filled with sand and cement hen pointed at the top to ensure soot doesn't have any where to collect.  Now I have to fill the holes in the chimney ans make sure they don't leak.  Bu66er.[:@]

[just john]

? Can't you just pull the liner to the top of the stack and put the cone on top of the stack?

[crossy67]

There is about 10 foot that is only 5" wide maximum, right in the middle of the chimney where the chimney from the bedroom runs along side it.  The only other thing I can think of is squashing the liner by standing on ot but then it won't be very flexible and if it twists I will never get it in. Only other solution is to remove all the stone from the fire place and chimney in the bedroom and replace it with thinner material.

[just john]

[quote user="crossy67"]There is about 10 foot that is only 5" wide maximum, right in the middle of the chimney where the chimney from the bedroom runs along side it.   [/quote]

Bug-ger, as you say, what size is the bedroom flue? would it be easier breaking through into the main flue from there?

[crossy67]

It is getting way beyond an easy and straight forward job, we are getting to the point where we will be having to interfere with floor in the bedroom and the walls, this bedroom is one of the best rooms in the house so I don't really want to go messing it up if I can help.  The chimney si in good condition except where I have been at it and is small enough to give a good draw.  I am thinking of using a couple of meters of flue liner and back filling with cement, now I have the holes I can line and back fill almost to the start of the restriction.  Only other way would be to fit a 5" flue (if it would fit) but that's not recommended for the burner.

[just john]

It might be worth getting a flue-ist to give some advice. . .  whatever they call them, if in doubt pull out and have a thunk for a while, it's not that cold is it?

[crossy67]

I am thinking of stepping away for a while but I can't get the room finished without patching up the hole I have made.  I could leave it until September and see if I get chance to rip our bedroom to bits.  If it were a couple of foot I would have had it done by now but it will be the floor and wall and quite possible the ceilings too.

[crossy67]

Right, yet another change of plans.

John, or Mr Cricket as I have been told to call him has made me think long and hard about doing the job right so it's going to be put through the bedroom chimney if it will fit, if not then I am going to rip out the chimney until it does

Ladies and gentlemen I give you my conscience, or Just John as he is known round these parts. 

[IMG]http://i235.photobucket.com/albums/ee50/hoosiergirl45/IMG_1185.jpg[/IMG]

[:D]

I now have another quick question if someone could help please.  What is the name (in French) of the heat reflective boarding I should be using to line the fireplace to reflect the heat back into the room and does any one know roughly how thick it is.  I am planning the facing stones and want them to just over lap or sit flush to the fireplace lining.

Thanks for your inputs all, much appreciated.

[just john]

[:P] There are worse things than doing a job properly in the first place . . . and that's having to do the job again[:D]

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