Barn works

[Pads]

I have a barn across the road from my house that i have had some work done to to keep it safe and bring it up to a usable condition.

So far the roof beams have been resited as some of the stone work had given way underneath , this is now made good and a new roof put on.

We have also had a number of old wooden shacks taken down as they were rotten through and dangerous in the strong winds . One of which was a garage , the ground area here is going to be prepared as an area to park a car , and the next jobs are to fix the stone work around the area of the windows where some stones have come loose , and new shutters put on , 

We are still unsure what we will do with this building , We dream of turning it into a house as its a stunning shape and large but we know its going to take a lot of money that we dont have have, But never say never .... We will continue over many yeas to do what jobs we can affford when we can afford them. But its more than likley it will be no more than a storage area and a place for hubby to do his hobbies and keep all his tools .  

I have just recieved a letter from Direction Generale Des Finances Publiques Service Des Impots Des Particuliers.

Which appears to say ( my french not that good) you have obtained a permis de construire pour une immeuble .... permit for a building ? Now I have not done this but assuming my builder did ?

Is this a permit to make a house or just a bog standard permit for any building work?

They seem to be asking me to let them know when the work will be finished and what works are to be done . They then quote some codes  1406, 1729 B-1 B-2 B-3 of code generale des impots

They seem to want to judge if it is nesserccessary to put up my Tax fonciere .

It says I must let them know within 90 days of the work being completed ...  As the work is not going to be comleted probally for a long long time , do I need to reply to this letter and if so saying what ?

Im going to send a copy of this letter to my builder , who will over the years be doing all the work , but im not holding my breath for him to act or do anything .

Is this just a bog standard letter that is sent out or some thing I need to do some thing about before I get in to trouble ?? 

Any thoughts any one has on this would be good ...Many thanks

Ps ..I can copy and paste the french letter into here if it helps any one to be clear what the letter says . 

[NormanH]

I know there are lots of people here who have restored barns and are up in the regulations.

I believe a permit has a limited period to run, but while I can't give any advice I would be happy to tell you what the letter means if you post it (leaving out any personal details of course)

[Pads]

Thankyou NormanH

Vous avez obtenu un permis de construire pour un immeuble (maison, appartement, local professionnel, etc.) situé à l’adresse mentionnée dans le cadre ci-dessous.

Si les travaux ne sont pas terminés, je vous saurais gré de bien vouloir me retourner cette lettre en indiquant la date à laquelle ils devraient être achevés (ou la date à laquelle le projet a été abandonné). Dans tous les case, il conviendra d’indiquer. La nature exacte des travaux.

S’ils sont actuellement achevés, vous voudrez bien préciser la date permettant une utilisation effective du bien.

 

Lieu des travaux

La chaussee

Nature des travaux (construction neuve, extension, niveaux supplémentaires, changement de destination, locaux sans fondation, autres travaux)

 

Je vous informe qu’en application de l’article 1406-1 du code général des impôts, les travaux affectant les immeubles bâtis (constructions nouvelles, additions de construction, démolitions, etc.) doivent être déclarés à L’administration fiscale.

Cette déclaration doit être souscrite dans les 90 jours de L’achèvement des travaux, par le propriètaire effectif à cette date. La notion d’achèvement des travaux au sens fiscal (1) s’entend de local utilisables, c’est-à-dire, notamment, pour lesquels le gros œuvre, la maçonnerie, la couverture, les fermetures extérieures et les branchements sur les réseaux extérieurs sont terminés.

Cette déclaration doit être adressée au Centre des Impôts dont les coordonnée figurent ci-dessus, au moyen des imprimés ci-joints, à raison d’un imprimé par local. En cas de difficultes rencontrées pour remplir ces imprimés, je vous invite à prendre contact avec notre service.

En vertu des articles 1406, 1729 B-1, B-2 et B-3 du code général des Impôts, le défaut de déclaration dans le délai précité vous privera de l’exonération temporaire, totale ou partielle, de taxe foncière sur les propriétés bâties à laquelle vous pouvez éventuellement prétendre, et donnera lieu à l’application d’amendes fiscales.

Je vous prie de croire, Madame, Monsieur, à l’assurance de ma considération distinguèe.

 

[NormanH]

Roughly:

You have obtained planning permission for a building situated.....

If the work isn't finished please return this letter indicating when it will be finished, or the date when the project was abandoned. In any case please provided details of the exact nature of the work.

If it is finished please give the date from which the building was usable.

Work affecting buildings already constructed should be declared to the tax authorities.

This declaration should be made in the 90 days following the completion of the work by the owner . By completion  we mean the major works such as walls roof doors and windows and services.

If this declaration isn't made you will lose any temporary exoneration of the tax foncière to which you may be entitled, and may lead to a fine.

This is the gist ...I have left out the details for the sake of a quick reply

[andyh4]

Depending on a number of factors, replacing the roof - in itself - may well be sufficient to have required consent and could have triggered this standard letter.

 

I would get in contact with DDE to see what works have been approved

[Pads]

Many thanks for the replies ... I will write and tell them what has been done and what is still to be done .

 

[suein56]

[quote user="Pads"] I will write and tell them what has been done and what is still to be done . [/quote]

Do stress when writing that the works are ongoing and, due to the nature of said work, it will take a long time ie at present there is no way of knowing an end date.

Sue

[Gyn_Paul]

My understanding is that when a P de C is granted, you have a fixed time (2 years I think ) to START the work before the permit expires. I don't believe there is a time limit to completion.

They will regularly send you these reminders (usually with an 'H1' form enclosed for you to fill in, to add to your area of taxable habitation). Depending on how busy your planning office is, they may then forget about it for 12 months, or they may follow up on a non-reply: you never can tell!  The reference to telling them if the project has been abandoned is simply so that they can close the file on it if that's the case.

Write to them briefly outlining the work completed so far, and say it is an ongoing project which will be completed when funds allow.

 

- The truth is always a good place to start !

You local Mairie will have a copy of the P de C which will at least tell you what you have been given permission for, i.e. what work the authorities are actually asking you about.

p

[Pads]

Thankyou for your reply

The barn( glacier) is a seperate building from our house so will not be adding to our area of habitation. We recieved no extra form H1 just the letter as above . It is just walls, roof, some soil floors and some wooden floors , there is electric connected but no water. Before we brought it it was used for animals and storage of hay and other odd items .

So Im just going to write to them to let them know the roof work which was done at the end of last year has been completed but on going work will continued as and when we can afford to do it.

The next job is to replace the rotten shutters and doors this will then make it weather and people proof . After that when we have saved up is to repoint the stone walls on the out side , plus some repointing of the inside. 

My next question is how far can we go and still call it a barn ? One day I would like to remove the soil flloors get it damproofed and put in concret floors. Plus make windows . So at least it will be animals proof as well and we can use it to store items . 

Its probally going to be 5 years before we can decided weather we can afford to turn it into a house , It would depend on selling the other house first as well which could take many years . But Id like to be able to store all our belongings safley in the barn by this time.   

[BIG MAC]

I have a similar situation and having spoken unofficially with the Maire it seems that its ok to have a concrete floor in my adjoining Hangars and to upgrade the lighting and power to use as workshop space. What they seem to be saying is that they  do not expect to see 'knocking through' or evidence that the areas are being used as living space ie. soft furnishings ...etc.

I am pretty happy with the concept of bringing the buildings up to a maintainable standard and using them as workshops...once the current employment glitch is out of the way Readimix here we come :-)

I want to be able to say that when I have to leave France or this mortal coil a little bit of it has been preserved ...I kind of like the idea of a future (possibly) French owner being handed a very good blank canvas or perhaps my own family deciding to take on a section of the buildings as habitation...in the meantime....an insulated and heated workshop of about 50m2 and with a mezzanine.Woo hoo! I think that should be enough to restore a vw camper in

 

[Gyn_Paul]

[quote user="Pads"]

Thankyou for your reply

The barn( glacier) is a seperate building from our house so will not be adding to our area of habitation. We recieved no extra form H1 just the letter as above . It is just walls, roof, some soil floors and some wooden floors , there is electric connected but no water. Before we brought it it was used for animals and storage of hay and other odd items .

So Im just going to write to them to let them know the roof work which was done at the end of last year has been completed but on going work will continued as and when we can afford to do it.

The next job is to replace the rotten shutters and doors this will then make it weather and people proof . After that when we have saved up is to repoint the stone walls on the out side , plus some repointing of the inside. 

My next question is how far can we go and still call it a barn ? One day I would like to remove the soil flloors get it damproofed and put in concret floors. Plus make windows . So at least it will be animals proof as well and we can use it to store items . 

Its probally going to be 5 years before we can decided weather we can afford to turn it into a house , It would depend on selling the other house first as well which could take many years . But Id like to be able to store all our belongings safley in the barn by this time.   

[/quote]

If it is an existing (but dilapidated) barn, then you can replace the doors, roof, structural components etc. as much as you like. In most area, you can fill in existing holes with frames - i.e. put windows in window-shapes apertures (assuming you're not within 500m of some antiquated pile of stones deemed to be of great cultural and/or historic value), And as Bigmac says you can insulate it, and concrete the floor, but I would draw the line at a wide-screen TV and frilly net curtains!

Really it all comes down to the P. de C. and what you (or was it your builder) applied to do with the place.

If it is on a separate parcel of land to your house (probably;, since it's across the road?) then it may not have a Certificate of Urbanism which may be something else the builder applied for as this is essential if you ever intend to turn it into any sort of living accommodation. Again, your Mairie will be able to help you... and perhaps the builder??

Just out of interest, does it have its own electricity supply, or is it a cable looped across the road on high?

p

[Pads]

Yes it is an exsisting  200 year old barn/glacier and has had windows etc. in the past but all rotten away now. The last owner lived in a caravan on the land for many years until he died . Yes has its own electric supply and water connected to the field but not the building . I believe the last owner wanted to make it into a house as it has a street number and address, but drink and age got in his way.

[NormanH]

[quote user="Pads"]Yes it is an exsisting  200 year old barn/glacier and has had windows etc. in the past but all rotten away now. The last owner lived in a caravan on the land for many years until he died . Yes has its own electric supply and water connected to the field but not the building . I believe the last owner wanted to make it into a house as it has a street number and address, but drink and age got in his way.[/quote]

What a frightening thought [:-))]

[woolybanana]

Well, we will all be got by one or the other, probably both!

[Pads]

You might laugh but I had to clear the 1001 empty bottles and worse in some cases refilled ones !! that he had left laying around the field along with a million and 1 car tractor and washing machine parts and any other piece of rubbish he had left laying around which by time I brought the place was 10 foot under brambles and weeds. It took me 3 months clearing by hand with a pair of hand shears and loppers . First morning my neighbour from the next field a farmer saw me doing it , he laughed and said if I got it finished and left it in a pile by the lane he would clear it all to the dump in his trailer. He was joking as he didnt expect me to do more than a days worth ....as he told me later . After the first month he had to start clearing as he couldnt get past the lane to his field there was so much stuff. Everyone in the village came to see the mad english woman clearing all the rubbish and cutting a 3 acre field with a pair of hand shears. And telling me what a mad bad man he was .... Come the summer hols people sent grandchildren to help ....but I couldnt let them it was too dangerous with rusting metal and broken glass every where , half buried saws sticking up from the ground etc.

But its now done , my new friend the farmer keeps it cut with his tractor and its lush and green and everytime he see's me in the bar he tells people thats the woman I told you about in the field ...and they all look at me in horror ...I some times wonder what he told them .....     

[Frecossais]

I admire your determination and hard work Pads. Maybe your farmer told everyone you cut the grass with a pair of scissors?

[Pads]

No i think they were more horrified that i didnt stop for lunch ..... ;)

[BIG MAC]

I let my neighbour run sheep on my garden...makes the grass manageable and keeps the weeds down.

 

[Pads]

I did offer it to my farmer but he has plenty of his own land , he tells me he is happy to cut mine because he is just glad to see it looking tidy now after years of living next to chap who had it before .

Plus his nephew leaves a tractor in one of my old out buildings ...  So I think he is happy that we all just get along as I think the old owner gave him loads of grief

[suein56]

[quote user="Pads"]No i think they were more horrified that i didnt stop for lunch ..... ;)[/quote]

Oh Pads; no wonder they were stunned ... you carry on along your own path and continue to take my breath away with your audacity !!

[quote user="Pads"]I did offer it to my farmer but he has plenty of his

own land , he tells me he is happy to cut mine because he is just glad

to see it looking tidy now after years of living next to chap who had it

before.

So I think he is happy that we all just get along as I think the old

owner gave him loads of grief.[/quote]

As your mission in life is to make everyone all around happy, it seems as though you are well on the way.

Sue [:)]

[Pads]

Petite moi ? non .....

There is a little old lady in the village who catches me going out for walks often just before the whole village stops for lunch ....( our church bells tell you when to start and stop lunch... truley! ! )

She will chase me down the street with a stick and tell me to go home for my lunch ...I jest not ( all done in good humour) When i first moved there she use to hit my ankles with a stick when she saw me going up the mountain path for my walksa nd I use to think what is she going on about , my french wasnt up to understanding her then , Now I have realised she was telling me to take a stick on my walks incase I saw snakes ...  Now she makes me crack hazel nuts for her into a bowl as her hands cant manage it .... I hope Im just like her when im her age .

She also stops in the middle of the road to stop cyclist and insist they drink her water ..... 

[BIG MAC]

It's great when you can get to a mutually agreeable state of affaires...hope the taxman isn't looking..I get the occassional sack of spuds from 'The potato fairy' .I walked out the door one day and nearly broke my neck tripping over a sack of spuds on the doorstep...From time to time another will appear ..I imagine this to be the grazing tariff albeit to be minus some grass suits me.. Then of course there's the lady whom I let pick pears..we call her Madame Jam..as we keep getting given pots of delicious home made jam..You gotta love the French they make great neighbours!...

 

[Pads]

Yes ours are the same bottles, carrier bags and half wild boars are currency in our village. I love it

[woolybanana]

Found a baby on the doorstep once![6]

[Pads]

What did you have to do for that OMG !!!!!