Wood Pellet Burners

[mint]

[quote user="woolybanana"]Well, Norman, for paupers, I recommend body heat as it can be moved and varied easily, can do self-maintenance as well as other jobs round the house when needed.

So, a couple of nubile young things will soon get you warmed up and keep you that way indefinitely, and they do housewrok, cleaning etc.

Just tell them it is the French way.

When you get fed up with the model, pack it off to Calais and get a new one or two or three.[/quote]

And what, may I ask, would be the attraction for suggested nubile young things to shack up with Norman in his leaky old barrel?[8-)]

[idun]

I don't believe that wood burners are just for the very cold days or decoration. I have two, Handol 26T and 52T in two rooms. Not quite what I wanted, but all I could get with soapstone at the time, and they are good and hold the heat. But if I had a little, well lot of money to one side I would change to one of the 'heavy duty' soapstone fires from willachKG  or Nunna Uuni or Tulikivi, who certainly sold in France.

If I had the space for a self feeding pellet boiler, I would probably consider it. My GP in France got one and it took them months to sort out the self feeding properly......... it did, eventually.

Hopefully our heat recouperation system will soon be working, the house is well insulated now. It has a VMC in it too, so that in the summer it simply works as a VMC, in winter, it will take the air, clean it and put it back into another room.  So we shall see if the time and money getting it in have been worth it.

[woolybanana]

It would keep the old rugger warm and well 'oiled' a la sardine and they could change the buckets for the leaks regularly, prepare his food, do his shopping, roll his joints (!), charge his batteries....... besides, the sight of three nubile young things twerking outside the barrel would no doubt improve his takings wonderfully. Perhaps he might then be called the Pied Piper of Marrakesh!

By the way, have you ever noticed how happy sardines look in the tin?

The young things, well, they would have accommodation, board, spanking and the prospect that, if they are veryveryveryvery lucky girls, he might make the arrangement legal with one or all of them and so they would follow him to the promised land...., in the mini bus rather than under it.

Remember that he is a man of two properties these days and quite a catch, though best eaten young as that particular fish goes off pretty quickly.

[mint]

Oh, yes, I forget he is a 2-barrel dweller.

So they'll be after his money and his homes as well as ......er..piggy-backing (or whatever it's called) on his Carte Vitale you mean?[I]

[Quillan]

[quote user="Théière"][quote user="Quillan"]Providing the well is on your property and not used by anyone else just do it as that is what a friend of mine has done. He has also built a unit that extracts heat from the air being expelled from the house and pass it to the air coming in by using a cheap air conditioning unit from Brico Depot. I went to see him a few weeks back because I wanted to see it working and I have to say impressed is too small a word to use. It works out much cheaper than buying the 'proper' VMC based system or so he tells me and the parts are easy to replace. It is a method I will consider when I build my house.[/quote]

Would there be a problem with the well?  you are not taking anything but the heat so if it's suitable why not?

Q, what heat expelled from the house?  surely the idea of passive is you are not expelling heat at all, that's the issue with out drafty old stone houses.
I would think your friends unit would work much better as it's using a refrigerant and pump to extract the heat to re use on the incoming air but that's a very active system so how is it on electricty?  Double flux is a passive system so no aditional electricity.
[/quote]

In the winter cold air exits the house and warm in the summer.

I looked at the prices of the units your talking about and they seem to start at about 1,200 Euros, his a/c unit cost him 299 Euros from Brico Depot.

I don't understand exactly how it works other than there is what would normally be the internal unit is in a box in the roof and the outside unit is in another box down in the garage. Both seem to have big pipes running to and from the boxes with two in line fans. On heating it was pushing out 28 deg in each room with an outside temp of 10 deg but he has yet to build his control system. At present he has ripped out the electronics from the units (like for the remote control etc) and uses switches but he has designed his own controller which as I said he is currently building. I am waiting till it gets really cold, like down to minus 5 or 10 to visit and see just how good it is. His house is 178m2 and he thinks with this and one log (smallish) burner in the lounge is all he needs but we shall see. Interesting stuff though and a novel approach.

[BIG MAC]

It's all very interesting stuff this. I can build in a basic building environment management system as an enhancement to Quillan's friend's idea. As I understand it using an external unit internally or in a duct where it can be either to outdoor or indoor (ie an insulated attic with dampers and actuators where heat can be pulled from the upper reaches of the building - condensed and used to charge the thermal store) just need to figure if the gains and efficiencies work out but will ask the engineers at work whether it's a goer.

[Théière]

Q, whilst I applaud the ingenuity, it seems rather more like your friend has pulled apart the aircon unit to make an air to air heat pump, no doubt efficient but is that really a passive heat recovery system?

[Quillan]

[quote user="Théière"]Q, whilst I applaud the ingenuity, it seems rather more like your friend has pulled apart the aircon unit to make an air to air heat pump, no doubt efficient but is that really a passive heat recovery system?
[/quote]

Well yes it is a heat pump except air that is extracted from the house is chilled via what I would call the inside part in the winter and the air coming in to the house passes through the bit that would normally be outside the house and therefore gets heated. In a normal situation the bit inside would be mounted on the wall and actually pushing heat out but in his case it pushes cold out to chill the air being extracted from the house. The idea is to overcome the low temperature problem when using them as proper heat pumps in winter. Normally you’re trying to extract warmth from a cold outside, this way you are actually heating it up so the whole thing is more efficient.

[NormanH]

Not a lot of suggestions of actual models of these stoves then..

For WB

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hs4AUuZ9TKk&html5=1

[Théière]

[quote user="NormanH"]Not a lot of suggestions of actual models of these stoves then..

For WB

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hs4AUuZ9TKk&html5=1

[/quote]

Sorry Norman I didn't realise you were that cold.

For one of the most efficient, the Burley range

Or Morso

[woolybanana]

Norman, whilst I can see the attraction of a wood stove on one hand, how practical would it be for you to shift wood or even bags of wood pellets? How would you manage if your little hotwater Betties were away?

How well can you bend? You would need, I suspect, an insert

which has the fire higher up.

What about wood storage? You need a dry space which is easily accessible?

Chimney; is there one there, can it be lined (it needs stainless steel flexi or stiff pipe)?

Something like a Jotul or a Scan might be good. Not cheap, but better than the French ones generally.

[nomoss]

[quote user="NormanH"]Not a lot of suggestions of actual models of these stoves then..

[/quote]

Sorry. All current pellet stoves I have seen have quoted efficiencies of around 87% +/- 2%. So I believe choice is down to how much heating is required and your particular aesthetic preferences.

Below is a link for the first stove I bought, made in Canada, bought on Ebay UK in 2008 for £1600, including delivery here from Ireland for £200.

The seller no longer sells them, so that deal is unlikely to be repeated. Agricultural in appearance and construction, it suits our décor, it is simple to maintain, with very clear instructions, and parts are available both from the manufacturer and on Ebay.

[url]http://www.kozistoves.com/ [/url]  Model KSH 120/120DX - click link on LHS

We used it for four years and replaced it with the Italian one in the link below when we were about to sell the house, as it looked a bit large for the space it was in. Installed here in 2012, it will soon be in use for the third year in this house. I have not yet needed any spares for it, and the only problem was due to damp pellets from a supplier in Narbonne, which were a problem to ignite initially, and produced smoke.

The biggest problem was in obtaining a suitable flue here. Most suppliers refused to sell one which they didn't install, and it eventually cost more than the stove.

I used a double concentric stainless steel flue, with joints sealed with silicone rubber "O" rings, as per the manufacturer's instructions. The only supplier I found refused to sell the "O" rings, as he said they were against NF specs, so I had a builder friend buy these separately. Fortunately the correct flue is now specified and available in France, but it took several years.

Originally I was drawing combustion air for the stove via the anulus, but as the flue is quite tall this results in overcooling of the exhaust, which causes excessive tar deposits in the top of the chimney.

I still use the double flue for the Kozi stove, but installed the Italian ones with a single enameled steel flue within an existing masonry chimney. I found the flue supplied in Italy was better quality and cheaper than what is available here, and it was in stock.

This is the Italian stove which I have installed. [url]http://eng.ravelligroup.it/prod/36-mavi.php[/url]. I contacted Ravelli, who gave me details of our nearest supplier, near Imperia. I chose the Mavi because it is one of the few with the flue exit on the top of the stove rather than at the back, so it can be placed nearer the wall. This requires an extra, special flue section, which makes cleaning a bit more difficult, but it does save space.

Here is what a ton of pellets looks like

[URL=http://s857.photobucket.com/user/nomoss/media/Posted%20on%20Forums/TonofPellets_zpscfa563a7.jpg.html][IMG]http://i857.photobucket.com/albums/ab131/nomoss/Posted%20on%20Forums/TonofPellets_zpscfa563a7.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

[Théière]

[quote user="woolybanana"]Norman, whilst I can see the attraction of a wood stove on one hand, how practical would it be for you to shift wood or even bags of wood pellets? How would you manage if your little hotwater Betties were away?

How well can you bend? You would need, I suspect, an insert

which has the fire higher up.

What about wood storage? You need a dry space which is easily accessible?

Chimney; is there one there, can it be lined (it needs stainless steel flexi or stiff pipe)?

Something like a Jotul or a Scan might be good. Not cheap, but better than the French ones generally.[/quote]

All valid points Wooly and considering Norman's needs, the pellet stoves whilst being good and Nomoss's Italian jobby looks good too but too many moving parts for anyone who is not practical.

Standard wood stoves can also be raised up on a plinth so not just the preserve of inserts which to date the only really efficient good ones I have seen blow the budget at €5000+.

Nomoss that 80mm flue size must be handy to be able to fit where most 150mm flues can't and the automatic ignition would probably be handy for Norman.

[NormanH]

Sadly[quote user="woolybanana"]Norman, whilst I can see the attraction of a wood stove on one hand, how practical would it be for you to shift wood or even bags of wood pellets? How would you manage if your little hotwater Betties were away?

How well can you bend? You would need, I suspect, an insert

which has the fire higher up.

What about wood storage? You need a dry space which is easily accessible?

Chimney; is there one there, can it be lined (it needs stainless steel flexi or stiff pipe)?

Something like a Jotul or a Scan might be good. Not cheap, but better than the French ones generally.[/quote]

Sadly you are right even if your post is full of double innuendos ...

This was for the new flat which seems permanently cold even in summer, but then I was warned on  here about old flats

I suspect that the sort of cheap deals I have seen advertised in Brico Depot are just not worth the candle.

Will go back to radiant electric heat (I have them in all the rooms)

[suein56]

[quote user="NormanH"]This was for the new flat which seems permanently cold even in summer, but then I was warned on  here about old flats.

I suspect that the sort of cheap deals I have seen advertised in Brico Depot are just not worth the candle.[/quote]

Strangely enough I have experienced that very pellet stove (http://eng.ravelligroup.it/prod/36-mavi.php) in action in one of the houses OH and I were considering when house-hunting. The heat output was formidable and it looked good too; which is always a bonus. I was so impressed the frosty day I looked round the house for the first time that I took a note of the name.

The house owner (owner of the local VSL/taxi firm) said he and his wife (she drove one of their vehicles) appreciated the lack of attention that the stove engendered, in that they never knew when they were going to be called out day or night and could always count on being able to return to a warm house at any hour.

He also said that once the hopper was filled with its bags-worth then they could count on that lasting a few days. It was a modern house though, built 2006.

If you can lift a 15kg bag, or know someone who can, or can use a scoop to fill the inbuilt hopper then you will succeed with this stove.

 

[quote user="NormanH"]

Will go back to radiant electric heat (I have them in all the rooms)

[/quote]

They have got to be warmer then the aged convector heaters we had in our rented house; gosh they had such a puny output we almost froze; I used to wear so many layers I had difficulty bending; I remember it well.

Sue [:)]

[woolybanana]

[quote user="NormanH"]Sadly[quote user="woolybanana"]Norman, whilst I can see the attraction of a wood stove on one hand, how practical would it be for you to shift wood or even bags of wood pellets? How would you manage if your little hotwater Betties were away?

How well can you bend? You would need, I suspect, an insert

which has the fire higher up.

What about wood storage? You need a dry space which is easily accessible?

Chimney; is there one there, can it be lined (it needs stainless steel flexi or stiff pipe)?

Something like a Jotul or a Scan might be good. Not cheap, but better than the French ones generally.[/quote]

Sadly you are right even if your post is full of double innuendos ...

This was for the new flat which seems permanently cold even in summer, but then I was warned on  here about old flats

I suspect that the sort of cheap deals I have seen advertised in Brico Depot are just not worth the candle.

Will go back to radiant electric heat (I have them in all the rooms)

[/quote]

Wat pliz is a dubl inyourendo? We hav not zis in France. EEz eet un Anglue Sexon vaice?

[NormanH]

She asked me for an example of a double innuendo so I gave her one.

[Théière]

[quote user="NormanH"]

I suspect that the sort of cheap deals I have seen advertised in Brico Depot are just not worth the candle.

[/quote]

Some of them are not too bad, the ones with the vermiculite linings would be ok and are good on price. 78% efficiency

http://www.bricodepot.fr/dissay/poele-a-bois-quotcardiffquot/prod35223/

Lining the external walls with the 6mm depron insulation from Brico depot would make a big difference.

 

[NormanH]

Thanks [:)]

I have seen something like this which combines placo and insulation in a sort of sandwich.

http://www.bricodepot.fr/dissay/doublage-plaque-de-platre-polystyrene-gris-%28th32%29/prod18319/

Any thoughts?

[Théière]

Morning Norman, yes it works very well, In the UK I live on top of a hill and when we moved in the lounge temp was around 13c in winter (solid walls) adding 50mm of doublage increased the temp to a relatively stable 18-20c the whole house has now been done although in the small rooms only 25mm of insulation but the effect is much more livable and much lower bills.

[Mahni]

I recommend not stove but pellet boiler with hopper: https://www.madaboutheat.com/dpbi