Blackadder<IMG src="http:forums.livingfrance.comimagesline.gif"><BR>Blackadder<BR>Keighley and Creuse

I have just read the Olive Farm (evenings by the Gite fire after a hard days work at our 'grange' and for the first 1/2 thought it was just OK, she then went moaning on about cash shortages (but managed to catch last minute expensive flights to meet deadlines, water the dog etc) I had bought it thinking it was one of the dropped out of UK life and actually making a go of it abroad as the 'foreigners' do. But no, just a publicity vehicle for her. Shan't read another. Now where's my beano??

I enjoy the program immensely. More money than sense? If they had a penny, they'd have had more money than sense. Purely on a house renovation front...they had the troubles they deserved really, expecting to be able to manage the project from the UK and then go out and expect everything to be tickety boo is very naive. She should have had a local architect to project manage and he answered solely to her. Every last detail should have been written down in an agreement including whether sockets need to be in the woodwork or in the plaster. That way, any mistakes would have been at the Architects expense. Or am I now being naive. How she could get so upset that the kitchen (being delivered early i might add) had nowhere to go cos of existing building works defeats my thinking. I think she viewed the place as her home when in fact it was a building site. If she had had builders in at her home i could see the problem of woodshavings/tools etc all over the place but this was at that time a site. She expected far too much from the artisans. Unlike most of the other shows and in particular the one 20 miles from us in the Creuse, I believe she wanted the show to show off her wealth,taste etc. A more tasteful thing to have done would have been to say it was 'an expensive kitchen' not have to keep harping on about the actual cost. (Hey for that much she could have lovely takeaways from the local chinese restaurant every day for life) Envy? Not at all, i am more than happy with my little lot. But then again i don't admire her or wealthy people doing similar things as there is no risk. The families who sell up and go and make a go of it, either with loads of research and thought or not get my admiration. Best of luck to anyone at whatever stage of life they are in, in whatever endeavour they are up to. Be happy

My point re the travel side of it...i.e cheap flights and P and O cutting crossing routes was... don't base your property solely on people being able to get there via for eg Rodez airport, The travle market is a fickle thing and routes could be dropped at the erm drop of a hat so to speak. If your place is too far to drive in a day but not far enough south for great weather and the local airport stops UK cheap flights, your UK market will dry up somewhat, IMO The point about marketing for the rest of Europe is an excellent overlooked point of course (and most of Europe put us to shame by speaking better English than we speak their respective language)

This is going to be the topic for a few weeks/months and decisions made now will make or break people i feel. If i were in an identical position..... Market research is a key to this. In sterling you have around £350,000. I would leave £50,000 aside as 4 or 5 years emergency money. In that time you should be more or less fluent and settled and if it came to the stick and lift you should be able to find employment being bilingual etc. I think i'd be looking at a fairly specialised market of say 'walkers' or 'motorcyclists' I would buy a 'to renovate' ensemble of buildings for say £150,000 and spend the other £150,000 doing up to suit purpose, i.e secure bike store, pressure washer, few tools, air line etc (i'm a motorcyclist and these things matter). I wouldn't do up a property to be really luxurious and then let out to hikers or vice versa, rough property and try to get upmarket clientelle. It is quite obvious really but many seem to make big mistakes. What would YOU require in a holiday let / b and b With a load of kids i bet it'd be things to do and see and space, so a nice mown field that the youngsters can run free in is a big plus, a cheap second hand bouncy castle on site would be a big bonus, cheap Deacthlon bikes for all would be good, lots of little things add up and word of mouth is a marvellous thing. The old adage, if its good tell your mates, if its bad tell me and i'll fix it. I believe there is still the market there but you cannot rely on a specific area just because Ryanair fly there (today they may, tomorrow??) I'm sure the P and O situation has people with Gites in Brittany sat biting their nails. Choose somewhere with all the right attributes for what your target renters want. Another common sense thing but something folk seem to overlook or ignore. As we are in the very fortunate position  of doing up an old barn with no intention or need to rent out, we have looked at all the above from a distance as others have bought and either done well or floundered.The internet and forums like this are great. You are obviously very sensible and not rushing in now will pay dividends later, all the very best and let us know where you're looking and how you're doing Dave

Best of luck in your hunt, beautiful area. We are 40k SW of Gueret but still just in Creuse. (and 40k NW of 01924!!)

I'm afraid he doesn't really speak enough English to chat on the phone. I do not speak good french (genuinely, i have heard non french speakers chatting away merrily, i am not one of those!)and we met at our Immo's office a couple of times and our Immo assisted a little. I would drop him a line using one of the online translators and a brief sketch of what you want, it may come to nothing but must be worth it for a few francs and a bit of time?? Our plans from start to finish were around 2400euros, thats for a 280m2 barn plan with 4 beds 4 receptions and new built on garage all neatly put together in a bound folder (x5!!) We were happy.

From my very limited 'knowledge' it is very much a localised or set of localised problems. In some areas there are far too many gites/chambres de hotes for the number of tourists, in others (the Vendee this summer for us!) a lack of accommodation. The trouble is that at the few peak times there may be for example 1 million people needing 1 million beds, the rest of the time maybe 250,000 people and the same number of beds. so thats 3 in 4 beds 'unsold'. In this ever evolving society it seems that owners need to keep updating both their ideas and their property and seek out a specific market, be it walkers through Walking Weekly or cyclists through Cycling Weekly...etc   We have some friends who moved out last year with Gite and B and B in mind, or maybe a campsite or.....no definitive plan which may be a good 'fluid' thing. But without good market research surely a recipe for failure. It does appear to me that some people naively watch these place in the sun type programmes and move lock stock and barrel to live the good life. I think people who take the trouble to research and utilise Forums like this, have more about them and may well do better than simply putting a pin in the map (it does happen) Best of luck to anyone in the position or likely to encounter the position. Those contemplating it....as a frequent gite renter...i look for a pool, grounds for the kids to play in etc...ask all your friends relatives what they would ideally require (if the family market is indeed your market)

We used a guy from North East of Limoges, Serge Bergeron at a small town called St Priest Taurion  05 55 39 60 61. He is an Architect and Coordinator, his wife is an Architect and Urbaniste?? Serge did everything for us, we were here in UK and he did site visits, Mairie visits etc and after a short time (we were in no rush) of around 3 or 4 months we got great plans and permission with no leg work on our part at all. Serge sent plans to us at each stage and we put our own minor changes on it and sent it back ( a couple of times) until we had exactly what we wanted.

I can only see the little red x  maybe its the computers anti this and that software??

"perimeter 450m"      is there an added nought on that??? Seems like a huge building otherwise. 150m x 75m  mmm what sort of renovation costs there?

Little more info needed, is that for someone to bring along a velux and do everything or for you to have a go and buy everything?? We fitted 4 this Spring to a barn roof used stage scaffolding and moved it along, Took off 1300 tiles, fitted windows, re tiled in 3 days (2 of us) Got the front half to do this next Spring. Not much help i suppose but they are relatively easy to fit, especially if within reach without scaffold/ladders. Hardest bit is lifting the window in after the rest is installed

The big energy drain in heating water is getting it from cold through luke warm towards warm, if i can use the sun to get this process going i'll be happy. Expense now may pale into insignificance when we have big power cuts/no power when fossil fuels are long gone

Lachouette, we're the other side of St Moreil from Eymoutiers, actually into the SW Corner of the Creuse. We are looking at solar power, both for water and possible for electricity. We'll visit GITEM in October when we're next out there, (we'll have to find it first) but will watch this thread with interest. We re-roof the front (south) half of the barn next Springbank and so would like the info and decisions made by then. Will it need PP??

BQF Another vote for the Limousin here. In 2001 we first looked at where we could afford, not many area to be honest. Then made a trip that Summer, just happened to come to the Limousin first, and we loved it from the outset. We looked elsewhere but nowhere  seemed the same (stupid statement i know). Bought a barn to do up (ten year plan) and paid just shy of £20k for a rebuilt rerooved barn (after a storm in the late 90's) We will eventually have a 4 bed home for less than £100k with most of the work done by ourselves out of choice. It is not an investment property, it is not to be rented out at all and when we retire in 10 yrs we will move out there and enjoy life. In the meantime we actually enjoy spending a fortnight holidaying there and doing a few hours graft each day! Went on a 'normal' holiday this summer to the Charente and really regretted not taking the barn key as I was at a loosed end and the kids (10 and 7, going on 17!!) felt the same..." Oar Dad, can't we go and catch lizards and make mud cement at our barn" Go out there and simply look round the place, you'll need a few trips or at least a fortnight. The people are friendly, the estate agents we met were all superb and spent many hours with us, showing us round numerous properties miles apart. I liken it to the Yorkshire Dales as it would have been 400 years ago, with trees everywhere and few people, and everyone loves the Dales.

I go with Norfolk Line quite regularly now, its a nice leisurely 2 hour crossing, I'm out of the habit of doing everything at 100mph and if i miss a few hours of my 2 week break, so what, I'm much less stressed! We get on board and have generally eaten a good meal in their canteen before we have even left Dover. We then sit and read or watch a movie ( a full movie as we have 2 hours!!!) at the other end we wander back to car, no point rushing like most seem to, and out French journey begins, All very civilised....and the point is.... We have been delayed a couple of times for a few minutes for either P and O or Sea France and I thought it may be that they pay a premium to the Port Authority to get on time crossings, eating away at their profit margins. Give Norfolk Line a go, its a relaxed start to what is supposed to be a relaxed time abroad?? Hey, and I have no shares in anything except the dead cert from 2years ago MYTRAVEL, buy at 30 p a share and watch your wealth rise....now worth 5.4 p a share...Yahoo. Blackadderfinancialadviceservice.com

I don't really think you can use the full dictionary version of integrate in this context. My idea of it is..... I run a small village Youth Club set up with a few other parents up here in rural West Yorkshire (i know that sounds contradictory, rural and west yorkshire!) Due to moves etc we are now down to 4 adults to help, plus a couple of 17/18 year olds (they aren't all bad) we desperately need at least a couple more helpers. Most local parents can't be bothered, if a french family lived here, yes they'd always be French but if either or both adults came to help, they are far more'intergrated' into our local life and scene than the die hard locals who have lived here for generations. I would hope to be 'accepted' in the same way in France. I imagine most if not all people on this forum would be like that, getting stuck in, going to the village fetes etc, you are all on here, after all, to widen your knowledge and share experiences. My big fear when we bought a barn to do up in the Creuse was that locals wouldn't accept us, ignore us or see us as some rich Brits come to make a quick buck. They have been friendly, but thankfully not overly. They know we are not rich (which may help) and the big thing is that we try to speak French to them, we use the bakers van for buying bread and queue up in line with them etc etc. We are no differant as a 'people', most of us are honest, decent hard working who will put as much if not more into a community as the average Joe, with just a few, a small minority who are selfish and are after all they can get. These are the ones that get publicised 'cos it sells papers and makes for an 'interesting' read. The majority of people are educated enough to know this and take people as they find them. End of sermon.

Golly Helen, I shouldn't have read this. We have managed to get electric and water into our 4 walls and a roof, done half the roof with the other half to do next year. After that we have fosse to put in, a floor downstairs would be nice, oh and then some windows knocking into the solid 3' wall, after that we may go for internal walls and a bit of pipework and wiring, then onto the 2nd floor....... Doesn't seem a lot when you read it quickly. Our 10 year plan! Keep your chin up and look at what you'll have at the end of it all.

I enjoy the speed and efficiency of Eurotunnel but sometimes baulk at the price. In summer i will generally go for the cheapest ferry, it didn't wotk in July when we spent 6 hours waiting for the ferries to catch up with passengers after bad weather, how much do you put on a 6 hour delay that seriously upsets your plans for a few day trip to see Le Tour?? For Winter we daren't risk a ferry due to the higher likelyhood of bad weather and delays/cancellations. I have no problem with the late departures/early return as we have got used to the odd overnight in a cheapo hotel (room for the 4 of us incl breakfast fro less than £40) and then a leisurely drive to the Creuse the next morning. Horses for Course I guess

I don't know about Citroen but, if your car is to spend more time in Britain and you use a local dealer to yourself who you are happy with, stick with them, you can only be saving a few pounds at the most. If you're on Holiday in France, the last thing you want is to tie up two ends of a day taking/collecting a car from a garage. Garages can get tetchy about warranty work if the car has not been serviced with them. (We had a nightmare time with our Citroen dealer on our last car, a xantia, and will never have another Citroen but I'm sure most dealers are ok)

Seems to be an offence under the mis sale of goods act here. In as much as they have specifically described an item and accessories for £149 and then sold a differant item without accessories. Mention in a polite e-mail to them that you are looking into the offences under s of g legislation and look forward to hearing their explanation. You will obviously then have to back this up if they say   'well go for it mate'   and speak to Citizens Advice etc. Could be difficult and they may well play on the fact that you are hundreds of miles away in France and hardly likely to come back to Britain at a cost inexcess of £150 to claim back £149!

Two years is an awful long time in property. I presume you are oving over there in 2 years which means possibly buying in 3?? The market in England may fall slightly over the next 2 or 3 years (may well keep rising as well) whereas I imagine the whole French market will continue to rise as more people buy into the 'dream' I would seriously do loads of 'area' research and get out there for a few lots of 4/5 days and see where you like. If you're like us and many others, your choice of area may be limited to budget, that makes it far easier in any case. We were extremely fortunate in that the first area we chose to go look at that we could afford, the Limousin, we fell in live with and bought (a cheap barn to do up) there. Without knowing your current state, i.e renting, own house with little/loads collateral. Its hard to gibe advice but if its the 'normal' own house, fair amount of cash tied up that will be released on sale, i would seriously look at a non tie in re-mortgage to get the cash asap to buy before you are priced out of the market. It will happen if prices continue abroad and steady off here! You may well be sorry as the type/size of french property will be severely limited. Just my twopenneth

Cannot assist much other than.....had AOL pre installed on my first computer, used it for a few months and then changed. Could i get all the AOL stuff off my computer? Could i heckers like. It was a nightmare. Dealing with them on the phone was a nightmare, they'd say one thing and then NOT do another. I.E closing acct down took forever and a day, needed reasons and all that. Eventually managed but had to be very blunt with the 'sales' staff. Sorry to put a downer on it but be aware you may have to really harrass them and still find your first months money has been taken from acct etc

I sincerely do hope it slows down and sits at inflation, i also hope it doesn't become swamped with English all in a few places. We haven't bought to make money, (we didn't buy in England to make money, its our home and I fear for my two children when they come to buying in 10-15 years time!) and do not want the same feelings vented on us as happened in Wales years ago, yes i know it was isolated

Yes i know its a long way East but it may be of benefit to someone... I just registered with Eurotunnel freight side and got the following e-mail information. Ring prior to arrival at terminal on CC booking line and you get an 8 digit referance. You then arrive at terminal and get the next available train. Price is  £145 plus vat up to 9m length each way £225 plus vat over 9m in length each way. Seems like a good deal. Some of these big Fiat and Mercedes vans can carry a serious amount of stuff. Van/truck share??  

Salamans.     Salaman Grundys------undies. Don't ask where it comes from though it was what we all called them at school. What about spogs then?? Sweets  or spice as they were sometimes known but mainly SPOGS