parsnips

Hi,    I don't quite understand your position ; if you bought in tontine then the house definitely goes to the surviving spouse .   You mention communauté universelle - are you already in it , or considering changing from your UK marriage contract?    A better option is to change to UK law;    to be certain of the survivor getting everything , you can each  make a french will declaring your opting for UK succession law; then put in the will whatever you wish.   It sounds like your notaire is not up to much.  If you are not too far from the Dordogne , I suggest you contact Mê Desautel in Aubeterre  who specialises in UK will options. NOTAIRE Alexandre DESAUTEL PLACE DU CHAMP DE FOIRE 16390 - AUBETERRE-SUR-DRONNE Téléphone : 05.45.98.58.80 Fax : 05.45.98.59.37 Courriel : [email protected] Langue(s) étrangère (s) : Anglais

[quote user="Alan Zoff"]I bought the house 12 years ago in my sole name as I was effectively single at the time, with 3 adult children. I now want to make things as easy as possible for my wife and the kids, the priority being my wife (their mother). Should I change the legal title of the property to include my wife, or - if that is complicated/expensive - will making a suitable French Will cover the situation adequately? At present, we are resident in UK but following retirement we are increasingly spending more time in France which, Brexit permitting, might become the main home.[/quote] Hi, It would be expensive to change the ownership of the house , however there are things you can do at reasonably small expense :  first of all see a french notaire and draw up a "Donation entre Epoux" from you to your wife.  On your decease , she will be given choices as to how to inherit the house (or all your estate if you become french resident).  She can take 1/4 in full title and the rest in life interest, or all in life interest.  The cost is about 150€. To increase her share of the house you could give her up to 80 000€ of its value without gift tax , but the notaires fees are about 1000€, and in my opinion , its not worth it, as it is all in the family anyway.    

[quote user="jon"]Thanks - this is so helpful. Your final comment raises one issue. It's not that I want to exclude my son, I just want to make the process of succession as simple as possible for my wife. And I assumed the way to do that was to leave her 100% - but maybe I am wrong in this thinking? [The property is just a holiday home, it's my only French asset, we are planning to sell it in a couple of years anyway, my son is only 8mths old, my wife would likely sell the property immediately on my death...]. Sorry bit morbid to start off a bank holiday....[/quote] Hi,    If  either of you were to  die , the survivor would not be able to sell without the permission of the french court.:- see here ; http://leparticulier.lefigaro.fr/jcms/p1_1323123/en-cas-de-deces-de-l-un-des-parents-le-parent-survivant-peut-il-decider-seul-de-vendre-le-bien-immobilier-de-son-enfant-mineur I take it that you are the sole owner of the 1/2 of the property - in which case your son would be entitled to 1/2 of your share, and you could leave 1/2 to your wife.. This might be avoided by taking UK law for your wills; You really need to talk to a good notaire with knowledge of the regulations on opting for UK law on this point.    Or you could carry on till you sell and hope that (as is most likely) you survive .

[quote user="jon"]Hi - Thank you all for your advice and time. And thank you for the improved wording of the holographe. Parsnips - can I just clarify the answers to my points 3 & 4:- - The UK will should mention the property in the same terms as the holographe........Any mention of the french property in the UK will must not contradict the French will. - A French notaire will always be necessary for the chalet succession due to French TAX law, but the holographe should suffice.......Any real estate passing in France MUST be dealt with by a Notaire....A properly written and registered olograph will is perfectly sufficient. And a final question:- - Is there then actually any point me stipulating in my UK will that I want the chalet dealt with under UK law? .........In my opinion not really ; if you want to exclude your son and leave 100% to your wife , you should make a french will opting for UK law , this would apply to all your assets in France.Thanks.[/quote] Hi, Answers in message.

[quote user="jon"]Hi, I've had a good read through this forum but haven't quite found the same circumstances - so please excuse a familiar topic! And the long post... I'm British and permanently based in the UK but own 50% of a property in France (I'm not related to the person owning the other 50%). I have a self-penned 'Holographe' Will for the French property - something which I was advised a few years ago by a French Advocat. My 50% is left solely to my partner who has recently become my wife and we have a six month old son. 1) Can anyone suggest how to change the wording of the Holographe Will so that it is clear the person stipulated is my wife - rather than my partner as she was. I just want to be sure I do it correctly. Do I just change it to 'ma femme' then her married name...? And then to change the second clause so if predeceased it goes to my son (not sister)? Current wording is:- Je soussigné xx, demeurant (UK address), désigne pour légataire de ma moitié indivise dans le bien immobilier sis à xx consistant en un chalet individuel, Mademoiselle X, demeurant (UK address). En cas de prédécès de Madamoiselle X, je désigne pour légataire de ce bien ma soeur étant xxx. 2) At the time the will was drawn up I thought the property had been bought 'en tontine' - however on checking the Acte de Vente it seems we bought it 'indivision'. Is this a problem with the Holographe Will as it stands? Is the holographe sufficient? 3) I currently do not have a UK will. I was hoping to have one drawn up specifying that I wanted my estate (including the French property) dealt with under UK law - the new succession legislation (EU650/2012)? Would a UK Will and the French Holographe Will for the property sit happily together? 4) If the UK Will is drawn up as above presumably that may all have to change when Brexit happens.? Thanks in advance![/quote] Hi,   EDIT.  I must correct 1)    In my opinion;   1)  "Je soussigné ..................legue ma moitié................à MON CONJOINT*, à defaut  mes heritiers legaux. (  *in french law your son will be entitled to 1/3 of the property).  2)   If in indivision the property can only be sold with the consent of the joint owners. An olographe will would seem to be adequate . 3)    The UK is not a signature to the regulation so the french property may  always pass under french law (the situation is still unclear-and would surely lead to expensive legal procedures ) but it will always be subject to french tax law, and the succession to it managed by a french notaire.  You should mention the french property in the english will but leave it in exactly the same terms. (your wife is exempt from french inheritance tax). 4) Brexit will have no effect on EU650/2012 as that applies to all residents (regardless of country of origin) of all signature countries.   UK /France tax arrangements are under a bi-lateral treaty (convention international 2008) and have nothing to do with membership of the EU.       

Hi,    The tax calculation is not quite as simple as that;    Tax is assessed on the total income then a credit is calculated as follows - Notional tax on total  income  X    Exempt income (in this case rents)/ divided by total income, the result of this is the credit which is then deducted from the total" notional" tax, to get the tax payable.  It is not as simple as a straight percentage reduction as it takes into account abattements and tax bands.

Hi,       If there is a servitude in the house papers you are on firm ground, but you should discuss with the neighbour before getting the sh*t wagon on his ground.   Even if there is no servitude , if it is the only access for essential work , and your neighbour refuses access, you can ask him for access under the so-called tour d'echelle and if refused, go to court.; see here; https://www.service-public.fr/particuliers/vosdroits/F67

Hi,     For most of us expats , the system is not changing  much.   Most already pay three acomptes in the current year  based on our previous tax bill.  We pay by cheque or prelevement -some already pay monthly .  When (and if) this new system comes, in the future the acompte will be calculated in the same way , but will be automatically taken from our bank accounts monthly ,that's why they want a RIB.  Just like now , we will declare in the same way , and any overpayment , or shortfall will be adjusted in the final avis.

Hi, A good online french life assurance acc. using the guaranteed euro fund (linxea, fortuneo etc for example) can be used as a savings account (there are no entry or withdrawal fees and 100% safe ), see here for performances;  http://www.cbanque.com/placement/assurance-vie-palmares.php  tax treatment is increasingly favourable with length of time acc. is open, and only the interest fraction of withdrawal is subject to tax and contributions.  

Hi, As you know, police pension is exempt from french tax and social charges.   It should be declared in 1AL and 8TK on 2042 and sec 11 and section 6 on 2047.If the sum is not great , it will be much easier to declare like this, added to the normal pension.   However , it occurs to me that if it is a large amount , it could push up your average tax rate (although not in itself taxed - this is due to the formula used to calculate the credit).   If you think that may be the case , you could discuss with the tax office alternative ways to declare it ( capital pension @7.5% or as "revenus différés" on 2042 , but getting their- written - assurance that the tax so calculated will be covered by the credit).  

[quote user="Jo"]My S1 was withdrawn on the death of my husband as I am not of retirement age. My health cover is now provided by France, for which I contribute 8% of my income. This will cease when I hit retirement age and will then be covered by an S1 from uk again......HA!! ...if they still exist!! It was relatively easy to do and I hadn't been here the magical five years when he died.[/quote] Hi,       I understand that since Jan. 2016 the only income counted towards french health care under PUMA (which replaces CMU) is investment or rental income - ALL pension income is disregarded.* Have you checked on this with your CPAM? *http://www.leparticulier.fr/jcms/c_57158/couverture-maladie-universelle-cmu-protection-maladie-de-base

[quote user="Patf"]I don't know if furnished makes any difference. I was just going to add that I don't think there's anywhere you can put your UK personal allowance on the french tax form. [/quote] Hi,     See this; https://www.french-property.com/guides/france/working-in-france/letting-property/taxation/furnished-accomodation/ This deals with french lets , but you can declare like this , although you will finally be exempt; or to keep it simple you could declare as unfurnished , if the gross rent is less than 15000€. Your UK personal allowance is not relevant in France.

Hi,    If you would only read the instructions on the form you would see that you enter the lesser of 17.7% or "the actual tax borne in the UK".   So you don't use 17.7% for 2016 income, you use the actual figure which is around 11.1%.   However , 2017 tax certificates show 0 tax credit , so on the face of it you should enter "0" on the 2047 and 2042 for tax credit .      When I looked at 2016 and 2017, I found that the tax credit appeared to be based on a reduction of the" dividend rate "  used by the company to calculate the dividend payable. So any tax is paid by the company.  I have written to one of my investment holders asking for clarification on this , and also to what taxes their profits , on which the dividend is based , are subject.   It would seem to be that the 19% corporation tax  must impact on the dividend.   I think  that, based on that ,one would be justified in claiming the default credit of 17.7% next year.   The form 2047 asks for the actual foreign tax which the the dividend has borne, not what tax has been paid abroad by the declarant.

[quote user="Blodwyn"]If we sell our UK house, I believe we will be liable for UK CGT (if we sell for more than when we bought it in 2007). But then we would have to declare it on our French tax form. Would we be taxed in France as well? (Wondered because someone has asked if we want to sell.)[/quote] Hi,  It's more complicated ; see the HMRC site or email them giving full details ; when you became non-resident , when you stopped living in the house -was it your principal residence, have you let it out etc.  For french CGT see here ;  https://www.french-property.com/guides/france/finance-taxation/taxation/capital-gains-tax/ ...... section on property outside france.

[quote user="CeeJay"]Am I now right in thinking that for a reduction or credit e.g. Government employee pension, then an additional, or replacement form 2042 RICI is required and presumably that form will be available on line to complete? [/quote] Hi,     The 2042 RICI is no use as it is concerned with  credits for donations to charities:  we have to wait for the "Notice " to 2042 -2017 which has not yet appeared online .

[quote user="fredg"]Hi, I have ascertained that, for a beneficiary resident in France, French tax is generally not payable on an inheritance from a UK estate. However, I have also read that Trusts are treated specially in France since 2011. I am the future beneficiary of a Uk-based Interest in Possession Trust (set-up by my grandfather, capital due to pass to me when my mother dies, both were/are also UK-based). Does anyone know if the inheritance from the Trust will escape French tax like a normal inheritance, or will it be taxed in in France because it comes from a Trust. Thanks!![/quote] Hi,     You need expert advice ; see this     www.bdo.gg     you may wish to contact the company .  

[quote user="mint"]Congratulations, Parsnips!  And thank you for letting us know about the 2015 contributions.  I might send off an email initially to see how the ground lies or go the full hog and send in all the necessary docs. Nothing ventured, nothing gained, huh? [/quote] Hi,      Latest; full refund (several k) appeared in bank acc. today. 

[quote user="Hereford"]You may find a Notaire not helpful about a Will under this new regulation. The one we used when my mother died (and then asked about my father making a Will under this rule) said "it will never work as I cannot probate a Will in the UK". He is probably wrong about it not working but I would love to hear from anyone that it has actually worked! The six days can be a pain but is the rule.  The French often have a Mass later as a memorial service if family cannot get there quickly. [/quote]  Hi,     First , the notaire I use is keen to get me to do a UK Law will - I am not so keen , as I can do better things in french Law; I also assisted a friend to have a testament authentic drawn up under UK law by the same notaire.  Secondly , there are notaires in France *who are also registered solicitors in the UK , and can record the oath required by the UK probate dept.  I helped another friend to obtain probate using such an oath by post and internet. *search on line for your area.

[quote user="idun"]parsnips I am sure that I have read that such a donation to a friend or distant relative for example could end up with a 60% tax bill. I am sure I read it in french, where, unfortunately, I didn't save it. [/quote] Hi,    Yes , that's right, if the tax office knows about the gift; but as I explained , you are not legally required to declare receiving such a gift , so , if you transfer the money between UK bank accounts , or in cash, and avoid large unexplained deposits in your french bank accounts (the banks will inform the tax office), there is no way the french tax people will know about it.

[quote user="jay55"]Would anyone be able to give up to date info on the following queries we have - Have read that funerals must take place within 6 days, is it possible to delay this? We would be terribly upset if our family were not able to arrange to attend in time. We also need to write our wills, We understand that French wills divide the estate between spouse and children, but we want to leave everything to just the remaining spouse and was thinking of the handwritten form of will. Can this be written in English? And does anyone have a good link for the wording. Also does it have to be lodged with a notaire?[/quote] Hi,   I'm fairly sure the 6 day rule is quite strict , but best ask an undertaker. As for Wills , the only way to be sure to leave everything to the spouse , is to find a good notaire, and have him draft a will for you both to copy in your own hands.You can write what you want in English , but the notaire may translate it into french, in the correct legal terms.  The Will should start by your opting for UK law for all of your assets, using the following words (unless the notaire changes them into french) " I wish the disposition of my assets rights and shares to be under the law of my nationality (English) as provided for under the EU succession regulations 650/2012 Article 22."   Be advised by the notaire , but satisfy yourself that he knows what he is doing -some notaires are not up-to-date.

[quote user="mint"]How much money can someone from the UK give you as a present before you need to declare it? It's not "funny" money, would be money legally earned and UK tax already paid on it[:D] [/quote] Hi,      There is no legal requirement to declare a "don manuel" of cash or other non real- estate . There are only 3 situations when such gifts have to be declared :  1. If the french tax authorities become aware of the gift - ie informed by a french bank (as they do) of a large sum being paid in with no known origin - so pass the money via UK accounts possibly in stages . 2.If you spontaneously declare it to  the tax office -why would you if it is not legally required? 3.A reserved heir is supposed to declare a gift at the (french) succession of the donor- not applicable here. I assume that the money will be transferred to you in the UK so you have no need to declare it anywhere.  Even if the most unlikely happened and the french tax office , in some way , learned of the gift , there are no penalties, provided you gave details within a month of them asking you about it.

[quote user="parsnips"][quote user="mint"]Parsnips, any feedback, positive or otherwise, as to whether claims for 2015 were allowed, please? [/quote] Hi,       I submitted a claim for repayment of 2015 income contributions soon after the demands came last autumn , I was told it was sent to the legal department, and have not yet received a refusal- (or a refund). [/quote] Hi,      At Last!   I have had a letter conceding full repayment for 2011,2012,2013, and 2014. (and promising interest).    For 2015 income they have repaid contributions I claimed which were "prélévé" from my french life assurances, and my taxable PEL, all of which were taken on 31/12/2015.    They have not refunded contributions on dividends and foreign interest which were declared  and taxed in 2016 .   Once I have the money in my hands , I shall pursue this issue until the CJE rules definitively.    

[quote user="mint"]Parsnips, any feedback, positive or otherwise, as to whether claims for 2015 were allowed, please? [/quote] Hi,       I submitted a claim for repayment of 2015 income contributions soon after the demands came last autumn , I was told it was sent to the legal department, and have not yet received a refusal- (or a refund).

[quote user="Grecian"]I would just like to say thank you to parsnips, after just over a year of submitting our claim for our social charges refund, things were finally sorted out just before Christmas. It took just over a year in total. So thank you very much parsnips for all your assistance that you provided, and the template letter that you generated. I hope that you have had your social charges refund also.[/quote] Hi,    Thank you for your kind words.   Last week, after my re-sending S1 details the tax office asked for a RIB , so fingers crossed for a possible result.  I'll let you know.

[quote user="Mrs KG"]Thanks for the posting as I have done exactly the same this year and had intended to show it exactly as Parsnips as said. I do have a question regarding the 3916 form. Would a UK draw down pension of this type mean that it is an account that should be listed on the 3916 form. What was originally just a personal pension plan is now, due to the new british government changes has become a glorified investment account. What a conundrum! Thanks, Mrs KG[/quote] Hi,  Personally I don't think you need declare it as an account, as you are declaring the income from it as a pension under the french rules for doing so.  I believe the requirement to give details of foreign bank accounts is to catch people who hide money in overseas accounts from which they are not declaring interest.