rothrugby

Thanks for the explanations- we don't have anywhere near the level of income you quoted ie 21800euros and as you pointed out there are two of us. We're neither asset rich nor cash rich , just a pair of ordinary people trying to get by! The quote you got seems very low compared to others we've seen- where did this come from? I'm sure others would be interested if this level of quote is realistic. We've seen quotes for way above this with lots of exclusions, as mentioned by Sunshine. Furthermore, we've seen small print that excludes payment for conditions that an insurer deemed were present although not diagnosed at the time the policy was taken out- hence excluded. We've also seen exclusions for illnesses if they require more than one treatment  i.e follow up cancer treatment as this will then be defined as chronic- another exclusion. We take your point regarding costs. However, complementaires are not allowed to exclude anything- you can make  a choice to exclude doctors appointements, dental, etc. Private insurance seems to thrive on exclusions. We have made a list of what I would be covered for and so far it includes my feet, my head but nothing in between!!      

Having read the last two messages- how can anyone be better off paying for 100% cover than paying for a complementaire?  I've yet to see any insurance quote which is less than what we currently pay, for the same level of cover. And yes, I'm one of the unlucky ones. Came over 4.5 years ago with no problems, now got cancer.  I'm not alone!!!

Lets not get too negative, he did answer the Q & I was particularly interested to see that he is still challenging the rerospective application. He could have just ignored it !!  

Hi, I've just read all the comments re the use of EXpats on the PM petition-  I assume people are referring to this in their E mails. Can I just say that as one of the originators of this petition, we only wrote the petition words, we used the format for voting that was presented by the website!

and me!

By the way ,forgot to ask. Is anyone doing a Formal Complaint to the EU yet as suggested by ECAS.

Hi, Just recieved the following from ECAS Dear Sir,   The situation is known in Brussels and is currently subject to discussions between the EU authorities and the French ones. Our orgnaisation is also going to send a complaint to the EU Commission. For the moment, our point of view is the following: Under Regulation 1408/71 (EU regulation on social security) workers and pensioners, as well as the members of their family, residing in a Member State other than the one in which they work or which pays their pension, are entitled to sickness benefits in the Member State of residence under the same conditions as a national of this Member State, but on behalf of the Member State where they work or which pays their pension. We  draw your attention to the fact that Regulation 1408/71 only covers workers (employed and self-employed), students, civil servants, pensioners and the members of their family and their survivors. However, European citizens, who do not fall under any of these categories, e.g. post-active persons who are not - yet - entitled to a statutory pension, would not be covered by Regulation 1408/71. In such cases, only national legislation applies. So France is free to organise its social security system. Under Directive 2004/38, inactive Union citizens must have sufficient resources not to become a burden on the social assistance system of the host Member State, and comprehensive sickness insurance coverage in the host Member State. Following the acquisition of the permanent right of residence (normally after five consecutive years of legal residence) these conditions are no longer applicable.  Furthermore, the Directive provides that Union citizens shall enjoy equal treatment with the nationals of that State within the scope of the Treaty establishing the European Community. Personally, I think that the breach of the French system is here. We know that the EU Commission services will contact the French authorities in order to obtain detailed information about the French legislation on the "CMU" and examine its compatibility with Community law. Of course I encourage you introduce a formal complaint with the EU Commission, to put more pressure on the administrations.  I hope this information is useful. Do not hesitate to contact me if you need further information. And as soon as I get more result I will inform you. Best regards   Claire Damilano Legal Officer ECAS rue du Prince Royal, 83 1050 Bruxelles Tel: +32.2.512.59.68 Fax: +32.2.511.90.87 Website: www.ecas.org    

Hi Everyone, Please continue to VOTE http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/healthinFrance/ Regards

Has anybody taken a look at http://www.ecas.org/ The European Citizens Action Service. It contains the directive that the french are using to deny us CMU. I have today emailed the President of ECAS, presenting our problem & asking if ECAS can clarify the situation, his email is [email protected] It may be useful if everone takes a look at the website & emails Mr Venables ECAS was created in 1990 as an international non-profit organization, independent of political parties, commercial interests and the EU Institutions.  Our mission is to enable NGOs and individuals to make their voice heard with the EU by providing advice on how to lobby, fundraise, and defend European citizenship rights. Citizens free movement rights ECAS is an advice service for individuals as well as NGOs.  We run hotlines and our team of legal experts has handled over 50,000 complaints. Our priorities are: To run the Citizen Signpost Service for the European Commission at a high level of quality and to help solve cross-border problems. To promote a "dual citizenship," both national and European, based on residence and going beyond free movement rights. To organize conferences and develop co-operation among citizens advice services

What about people who didn't have an E106 or it has already run out and they are in CMU?

Hi, Funny about it needing a seperate decree as it's in French law already see Article L122-1- insere par loi no 2006-911 du 24 juillet 2006 Droit au sejour permanent.   It's also part of EU directive 2004/38/EC which is the original decree that caused all the current problems.You can find this in full on  the ECAS website.

Re te UK petition. We need 200 signatures to force the UK to at least  respond. As at 5 minutes ago we had 177 so keep them coming. I am the secretary of the Charente-Limosuine-Exchange who submitted this petition. We are still working hard to get some movement on those with serious illnesses as we feel this is the most urgent need at the moment. Many of our members have E106's due to expire shortly and also have a serious illness. We felt that our first priority was to attempt to get their plight heard. Thanks to everyone on this forum for their active support- it makes you realise you are not alone.

Hi, Just recieved the following from my Euro MP, Glenis Wilmott     Mr A.J. Ackland      Our Ref: GW/PC/ACKL01001/01071107       05 October 2007       Dear Mr Ackland,   Thank you for your recent letter concerning French health reforms.   I have written to the European Commissioner for health, Markos Kyprianou, on your behalf and will write to you again when I have a reply.     Best wishes       Glenis Willmott MEP    

I've just looked at the ECAS website at www.ecas.org. A site for an EU organisation to assist in free movement of EU nationals. Very interesting as it clearly details the provisons of Directive 2004/38/EC and states very clearly the 5 year rule. I have e mailed them to see if they can help to ensure thsi rule is covered in teh French application of the directive. Why don't we all E mail them?

  I've just reviwed this letter from Caroline Lucas. Does anyone out there intend to follow thsi part up or not? The Commission may be reluctant to press France to address this aspect of the problem, so I believe that it is worth considering bringing a petition before the European Parliament. All EU citizens have the right to do this about matters that form part of the remit of the EU. As the relevant webpage advises:  A petition may take the form of a complaint or a request and may relate to issues of public or private interest. The petition may present an individual request, a complaint or observation concerning the application of EU law or an appeal to the European Parliament to adopt a position on a specific matter. Such petitions give the European Parliament the opportunity of calling attention to any infringement of a European citizen's rights by a Member State or local authorities or other institution. Petition can be submitted by individuals or groups and, in this case, I believe a group petition from UK citizens living in France is advisable. I have received a number of emails about these changes and am willing to facilitate the sharing of email contact details amongst other affected people.

Re Jeremy Vine radio interview- I've just been told it's been cancelled. They are doing an outside broadcast from Paris in November so will probably cover it then. Looks like something they considered more important came up. Oh well!

Hi, Just to let everyone know that the situation is being covered on the Jeremy Vine show Radio 2 Wednesday 10th October at 13.30 french time. Peter Owen of French Entree is doing the factual bit and Mrs Rothrugby will be the human interest story. Hope I don't let you all down!!    

Hi, Just a point. having read the Article L122-1 which says " le ressortissant vise a l'article L121-1 qui a reside de maniere legale et ininterrompue en France pendant cinq annees precedentes acquiert un droit au sejour permenent sur l'ensemble du territoire francais"   I read this as acquiring residency status after 5 years, not citizenship. I think it's important to understand the difference. One has to apply for citizenship, it is not automatically granted. Once granted, you can vote in French elections and to all intents and purposes, you are French. Please note the above only applies if you are not considered to be a menace to public order!        

Thanks Clair, I will pass this onto my friends

Hi, Just thought I'd let people know that as a result of our members lobbying MEP's , we've received a reply confirming that they have contacted the Minister for Europe; Jim Murphy MP  Foreign & Commonwealth Office King Charles Street Whitehall London SW1A 2AH To seek a clarification statement on the retrospective element and if this is true, to press the French Govt to reconsider. It shows that lobbying does help so keep it up      

I've just received this E mail from the Embassy in reply to mine sent last Monday.I've written back to say that we've phoned CPAM and they know less than we do! If you phone CLEISS they refer you to CPAM! The last on line statement from the French authorities- dated 24/9/07 -doesn't mention the 5 year rule but confirms the 6 month period for existing CMU members.I've pleaded with the Embassy to sort things out and not run out of steam on this issue. Hello   Thank you for contacting the Public Enquiries section of the British Embassy, Paris. For further updated information concerning "French policy" applying to all inactive citizens from all EU countries. Please contact:     CPAM - The French Health Service (English language service):  Tel:+33 (0)8 20 90 42 12 CLEISS - (France's helpdesk for international mobility and social security): 11 rue de la tour des Dames 75436 Paris cedex 09 Tel: +33 1 45 26 33 41   http://www.cleiss.fr       Kind regards, British Embassy Press and Communications Section    

[quote user="Clair"]I am no[quote user="cooperlola"]I have had no proper definition of "inactifs" but as M. Sarkozy's sound bites seem to be aimed precisely at those who have money coming in (from company pensions, and interest from assets) but who no longer work - I imagine the aim has always been to target these individuals and that inactifs will mean just that - doing nothing (not earning nothing).  But I am still asking the question to try to get a difinitive answer from somewhere.[/quote] I am no expert, but I would say that inactif covers anyone under the retirement age, who is neither employed nor self-employed. If your gite is registered with the Chambre de Commerce, you are self-employed. If your gite income represents 50% or more of your total income, you should be registered wit the the CdC. If your gite is registered with the préfecture (usually for rating purposes), you are inactif.[/quote]   Can you tell me where you got this information, is it reliable, as I know several people who this would affect.   Thanks Rothrugby

I have been led to believe that there are two strands within French state health care which are relevant now to the debate. 1. CMU: universal care for those resident in France, and providing 100% reimbursement. 2. Regime obligatoire: ( may or may not be under auspices of CMU!) providing 65% reimbursement and requiring a mutuelle. The regulations issued by the Social Security Department recently refer only to the CMU.   With reference to the above: The CMU system is split into two categories: 1.CMU Base which everyone in cmu gets.  The state refunds a percentage of costs involved depending on what treatment is involved.  Within CMU Base certain illnesses are defined as life threatening & costs are refunded at 100%. 2.CMU Complementaire. This is a free top up policy to anyone on low income as defined by CPAM. For anyone who has registered a E121 or E106 with CPAM the percentages refunded are paid for by the UK & not France.

Cheers cooperlola, it also depends which 5 years they take, calender years or cpam years. Or is it 5 years from now or sometime in the future. I think that I will only need a couple of months worth of insurance which is a relief but our association, Charente Limousine Exchange will keep working on this problem

Hi, Just recieved this from the British Embassy in Paris, looks like the French have moved the goal posts again Hello   Thank you for contacting the Public Enquiries section of the British Embassy in Paris. Please take a look at the following updated information for healthcare coverage in France:     Access to the French healthcare system for early retirees from other EU countries We have held further discussions with the French Health Ministry and have established that the French Government has now changed its position regarding access to the French healthcare system for early retirees from other EU countries already residing in France. According to the French Government's published statement http://www.securite-sociale.fr/comprendre/europe/europe/cmu_inactifs.htm )the position is: All inactive EU citizens already accessing CMU healthcare coverage will continue to do so until 31 March 2008 after which they will be required to have their own personal medical insurance, unless their inactive status changes in the meantime.All inactive EU citizens under retirement age (ie those already resident in France and those planning to move in future) who are not entitled to healthcare reimbursement (through the E106 or E109 forms), will be required to have their own personal medical insurance until they reach UK retirement age (and therefore qualify for entitlement to the E121 form), or until they qualify as a French resident (which is after 5 years of regular, uninterrupted residence).People already over retirement age who are holders of an E121 which is registered with the French authorities will remain unaffected. This information is based on what we have been told by the French authorities. We suggest people seek further information from one or more of the following: CPAM - The French Health Service (English language service): tel:+33 (0)8 20 90 42 12