Martin963

It's good advice.  A lot of our English friends here in Devon (with more money than sense) are splashing out on LCD or plasma sets.  The picture quality on most is at best mediocre,  with crawling blocky backgrounds,  horrendous motion artefacts,  etc etc.   Often they've been purchased on the basis of a shop demo,  using a specially made DVD with superb artefact-less material, rather than an off air signal. Until high definition standards are set in stone,  any set purchased at the moment has the distinct likelyhood of being a dinosaur in a couple of years. Others may disagree,  but sticking to cathode ray tubes for a bit longer is cheap and sensible.

Unlike the UK where the BBC has ensured that its services are fairly easily available to the license fee payer via satellite (previously a free card,  now free to air) the French situation is not so benign. Most people in France use the analogue feed from Atlantic Bird 3 (5 deg west) if they want to watch the six main channels via satellite.   This is useful for rural areas (mainly) where France 5/Arte and M6 have poor coverage.  However, your dish is pointing at 19 deg east,  and the analogue transmission is also in SECAM colour which can be a problem if you only have a UK purchased TV. On this same satellite (AB3) there is (since March 2005) a digital duplicate of  the publicly funded channels (plus a couple more) but NOT TF1 and M6.  This transmission is currently free to air,  but there is no guarantee that it will remain so due to the quirky situation tied up with digital terrestrial TV transmission (I have covered this point in previous posts).   So this could be a risky route for the long term.   In addition a Murdoch Sky box is incapable of tuning the parameters used for this transmission,  although  bog standard free to air boxes would be fine. As to Canalsatellite and TPS,   they encrypt (unjustifiably in my view) the terrestrial channels (except I think Arte on 19 deg east) so you pay again to watch something that is paid for by the license fee. If there is a UHF aerial on the house you'd do best probably to buy a cheap French TV for the terrestrial analogues and move the existing dish to 28 deg east where all the BBC stuff is free to air digital (but not BBC world).   If not - personally - I'd move the existing dish round to 5 deg west and use it with a free to air digital receiver,  whilst putting up a second dish on 28 deg east and swapping the receiver between the two dishes as required.   If the French digital stuff on 5 deg west then encrypts I'd sigh and pay €45 odd for an analogue sat box if I still wanted to go on watching (but note the potential SECAM problem). It makes one realise that for all its faults the BBC has always looked after the license fee payer a lot better than the French system,  where operators squabble to stop their competitors carrying programmes (absence of TF1 and M6 off canalsatellite). Please post again if all that isn't clear - others may have alternative solutions.   Sorry it's so complicated!

Philips do seem to be good on this matter.   It can work the other way,  we have a Toshiba set in France which does B/G/D/K and L,  but annoyingly won't do I,  so would be no good in the UK (at least not for the sound anyway!).

Multistandard as far as colour system is concerned, yes.  But as I have said many times on the forum,  colour is the least of your problems with a UK originated set trying to tune in to French analogue terrestrial. You must make sure - if you want to watch the analogue channels with an aerial directly connected to the set -  that your TV is capable of tuning system L for France,  and an awful lot of so-called multistandard sets only do B/D/G/I/K but not L. At least if you have a SECAM capable set which doesn't do L you could use a French VCR (with L) to do the tuning and then feed the o/p to the TV via SCART. Alternatively,  certain DVD recorders not only tune L but also convert back to PAL.  Such as the Philips 3305 if you buy it in France. But if all you want is to watch satellite from the UK and old tapes from a UK VCR  then a UKset of any sort is fine

Those 5-way Scart blocks are not good news technically.   What you need (if I am understanding your set up correctly) is one of those Scart boxes with push button selector switches.   They normally have 3 in's and 1 out and a series of buttons which select one (and one only) input at a time. Your 5 way block (I am assuming) is a passive box (without buttons) and your TV is not being passed the correct voltage control signals either. I've seen selector boxes in Leclerc and more sophisticated ones can be had from eg the CPC catalogue.   You shouldn't be up for more than about 15 €.

I don't think a cable box will be the slightest good for picking up satellite signals.   Apart from anything else the LNB on the dish needs a power supply and certain other switching signals which a cable box would not provide.   And the videoguard encryption and codes used by Murdoch  on Astra 2 would not be the same as NTL on cable; (I don't know what encryption NTL use but the codes would be different). I'm not quite sure about your other project.  You say you are in a broadband area but that you want to the computer to decode sat signals.   As far as I know certain broadband operators distribute TV signals (in reality versions of the TPS (and other) satellite offerings) but you pay for these and the computer is fed from the phone line.   As to direct satellite reception onto the computer there were some boxes around a few years ago but they were (AFAIK) all free to air and I don't think they took off.   I'm an old Luddite here but I can't - personally - see why you want to use the computer when satellite boxes are pretty cheap and work via a TV which has the advantage that it doesn't tie your computer up.  But that's just a personal thing,  I'm getting too old for all this convergence stuff.    

Remember you asking about the TNT route a few weeks back... Can't recommend specifically,  but a trap to avoid is the cheapo box with just one SCART output (and nothing else).  For a lot of people that's fine,  but cheap boxes often don't have an RF modulator (which is a pain if you want to connect a second TV set,  or if your TV is so old that it doesn't have SCART) and if your TV only has one Scart socket there may be a problem connecting up a VCR or DVD recorder.   Phono audio sockets are nice if your relatives have a sound system. I don't know on the RF modulator front whether French boxes o/p L SECAM only or whether they are adjustable to B/G/I PAL,  that's something to watch. I have a Nokia box,  lovely hardware,  truly klutzy software.  This seems to be a big problem for Nokia (satellite as well) - they're up there with the front runners on the kit,  but they write software that's so arty that it prevents the box running efficiently.  (On the satellite front,  for their original 9600 digital receiver a group of people got togther and re-wrote the software so that the box became useable,  while Nokia messed about patching minor problems,  and then gave up;  it wasn't good PR,  as this post now shows!)

I'm not up on the model numbers here,  but assuming it is a "slybox" They're all the same software wise: Go to Services then key in 4 0 1 Select.   Follow that sequence exactly ignoring the screen. Choose RF outlets  Select. Key in another channel in the RF channel box,  save new settings, then back up several times to go back to normal. Bear in mind that via RF your picture will have disappeared now until you retune the TV.  It is often helpful to watch the scart output until everything is sorted out. If it isn't a sky box I've just wasted all your times.....

Well I'm not sure we answered that one specifically,  but yes ithe signal out of your analogue satellite receiver will be SECAM because that particular satellite broadcasts SECAM (the reason is that this feed is used as the main back-up for the French TV network in the event of failure of the primary microwave distribution,  and the transmitters themselves need SECAM).  

Philips are an example of an honourable exception in the SECAM/PAL field (see my post above about their DVD recorders).   Certainly some Goodmans TV sets sold by Comet were (are?) SECAM compatible,  don't know whether they tuned system L though (which is of paramount importance for direct off air reception in France). But you shouldn't rely on a UK sourced TV working via a French aerial on UHF;  some do,  many don't.   The magic ingredient is system "L" in the specifications.

Well getting that way,  mais n'oubliez pas that the whole east-bloc (Soviets included) were SECAM.  In fact SECAM historically did come before PAL (by a few months). But then the French tend to be surprised by a lot of Euro-facts.   We still meet the odd one who honestly thinks that the UK is part of the Eurozone....

This topic has been covered a few times,  but it is a minefield.  The advice above is mostly sound,  transcoders are generally not particularly good unless you pay a lot.   Using a scart lead will not solve the problem unless you use a French TV.    And I've never seen a domestic analogue sat box that outputs RGB - it's easy to do with a digital signal coming in but not so easy with analogue.   Some professional boxes probably do but I doubt you could obtain one,  and it would be very very pricey. What everyone has missed above (and I have posted about a few times) is that SOME DVD recorders will do the SECAM to PAL transcoding job very professionally.  The Philips 610 and 3305 for sure do.  Connect the analogue box to the DVD recorder (eg via AV2 or CAM 1 via phono plugs) and the TV to AV1 and voila. Most VCR's do not transcode,  as posted above. You shouldn't have to pay subscriptions to watch channels funded by the redevance, TPS (particularly) and Canalsat are making money unfairly here.   Unless you want all the other channels that come with the package. An alternative is to get a digital satellite receiver and hook it up to the dish you have already installed - this gets you France 2/3/4/5/Arte/Parliament although there is a question mark over how long this will be in the clear on AB3. Or buy a cheap portable TV in France and use it just for learning French by wiring it up to your analogue sat receiver on AB3 via a scart lead. As to your query about the French in the UK,  they are generally astounded that UK sets are so ofter PAL only.  A (very) technical French contact of mine took a lot of convincing that this was the case!.   There must be some French overseas who only get a grey-tinted view of back home! 

We wept with mirth over these - thanks for them.

Maybe getting that monopoly on the Western Channel routes and thinking they could charge what they like isn't the license to print money they thought it would be.

Not sure about the series bit?   As far as I know the principles are the same as the UK,  ie three wires suffice,  (I think in France using pin/connectors 1 3 and 5,  but as I'm in Devon at the moment I can't check) and that the wires in the cable between each socket link pins 1 to 1,  pins 3 to 3 and pins 5 to 5 (which is actually a parallel arrangement electrically).   On a diagram it might look like series if they are just showing the overall cable running between each socket but the individual wiring for the pins is parallel. So yes you can T off,  ie use a socket or connector box as a junction, with one cable going "back" towards the primary FT socket and two others feeding individual sockets upstream,  respecting the 1 to 1 and 3 to 3 and 5 to 5 convention.  As to overall length I can't help,  but 130 metres should be adequate for your run-of-the-mill chateau I would have thought!    

First,  no "narrowing of the footprint" has taken place;  it's extremely difficult to achieve without a steerable beam,  which Astra 2A/B/D don't have; (Eurobird I think does have some transponders on this basis but that's irrelevant here). Here are a few tips The most likely is that your dish has shifted slightly.  Go into services -> system set up -> signal test and look at the meters.  The quality one is the more important and should not drop below 50% (and preferably higher) for reliable reception.  However this only indicates one transponder and may not give a specific guide to your particular problem.  But if that's dodgy then most likely it's the dish. However, if it looks OK,  turn the box off and pull out the mains plug and wait 30 seconds or so.  Then plug it back in and give it a couple of minutes to sort itself out.  Now see if the programmes have come back. If not, try and find someone else with a working Astra 2 set up and ask to take your box round there and see if it works OK.  Again if it does burst into life chez les voisins then get the installer back to rectify the problem. It has been pointed out that Astra 2D (BBC & ITV) needs a slightly more pronounced skew on the LNB.  What this means in practice is that - looking at the dish from the front - the LNB needs to be twisted a few degrees clockwise from the straight-up-and-down position.  Many French installers may not be used to this as "their" satellites (being higher in the sky and therefore appearing more vertical from the ground) show this effect less markedly.   It's the same effect that the moon shows as it rises and sets - it appears to rotate slightly as it passes from far east to far west. No doubt others will have their tips too - I always miss one or two.... 

Well chico I am overwhemed...... Seriously - whilst I love satellite technology,  I have a very short fuse and if a computer doesn't do its stuff first time I go back to pen/paper/stamp/phone and a lot of verbal abuse,  which strains the milk of human kindness amongst those around me. In answer to your question,  when you originally purchased OnSpeed you would have downloaded a file (in my case 906 kB) called Onspeed Installation.   With a bit of luck it's still on your computer somewhere (all mine go into folders called My Download or Downloaded files because I'm so stupid I've only just noticed that I have two places to lose things like this,  rather than one!) You would have double-clicked on this installation file and this would have installed the actual gubbins of Onspeed somewhere else - eg in Program Files.   Then you would have gone back on the internet and the Onspeed sign in window would have appeared,  which you filled in and voila! All I did was to transfer the installation file onto my laptop (it would fit on a floppy disk in this case, although I used a USB cable which I bought about a year ago,  and allows you to hook up two computers,  with a Windows Explorer type display on each screen that then allows you to squirt limitless files back and forth - one of the most useful pieces of insulated copper I have ever purchased) and repeat the process;  when I went back on the internet with the second computer the sign-in window reappeared and I signed in a second time (I was all ready to say "OK this hasn't worked" but it did). There is always someone to say - Oh but you shouldn't have done that - but my attitude is that it is physically impossible for me to use both computers on the net at the same time and therefore I am not doing anything in a practical sense to try and obtain a double service.   A bit like not buying two copies of a Mozart CD just because I have one CD player at home and one in the car.   But I daresay there are some who would feel that this is sailing close to the wind.... In any case I am sure that Onspeed have a method of detecting if two computers with the same identifiers try to log in to the service simultaneously...  

As a first step (if you haven't done it) try a rescan.  Most of these things are sold with many stations pre-programmed in,  and often the parameters have changed by the time they're out of the box and hooked up.  Having said that one would think that the presence of TNT means it's a modern box.  What make (out of interest?). The frequency to scan specifically is 10803 MHz (10.803 GHz)  Horizontal pol  S/R 22000 FE 5/6 Presumably the radio stations are on a separate "list" to the TV stations? It's unlikely to be a signal problem (as you demonstrate) because the BBC TV stations are present.   But you could double check by also scanning 12441 MHz,  V  27500 2/3 and see if this gives you feeds of Radio 2 & 4. Post again if this doesn't work please. 

Well it could be Anton - I only have accurate (ish) documentation for the EBU area.   But generally it was felt that use of colour on 405 lines was a bit of a waste;  the BBC spent some time testing it in the 50's,  first on Band 3 (I think) from a temporary aerial on Crystal Palace, then on Band 5.   By this time 625 lines had pretty much become universal in Europe (apart from ONE country,  the identity of which is not difficult to guess!) and the largely invisible line structure of 625 made colour a worthwhile improvement. If you can remember which countries it was in Africa it would be interesting to know,  but don't worry too much....

Anton - the 405 lines (old UK standard) was system A (just for the record). Coral - you SHOULD be all right.  The only snag might be that some far-east TV's do not have SCART (peritel) connection(s).   It's a 2-row 21 pin (hideous from all points of view) affair.   Have a look round the back (as it were!).   In the absence of this there might be a phono socket (like audio plugs,  sometimes called cinch or RCA) for video in,  possibly another one or two for audio in.  This would allow you to get round the problem as well,  in that if the TV copes with SECAM via systems D and K from an aerial it will almost certainly cope with SECAM fed in to its non-aerial inputs (ie Scart/phono plugs.)   I hope...!   But as you say the lack of L suggests that to receive French TV you will need a French sourced DVD recorder or video to act as the bridge. OUt of (minimal) interest,  System L was chosen in conjunction with SECAM by - apparently - none other than De Gaulle himself in an effort to keep out foreign imports,  even though positive picture modulation is inferior,  AM sound is inferior,  and SECAM signals do not bear up as well as PAL in weak signal areas.   L is about as different as it can be, short of having a different number of lines (which of course for many years the French did - ie the old 819 line system,  in use on TF1 (la Une) until 1983. teeroe 1 - great!   But for others: do be careful,  particularly when using a French VCR as the bridge between aerial and TV.  Because the majority of VCR's will not convert SECAM to PAL,  whereas some DVD recorders do (certainly the Philips range seems to).  As I believe that DVD recorders have to output PAL they pretty much have - if they're designed fot sale in France - to accept SECAM for off air recording and convert it,  so I guess that one is reasonably safe to rely on this method of conversion (ie French sourced DVD recorder) to enable a UK PAL only set to display French SECAM off-air signals.   But I can't be certain.   For a French VCR the chances are that it won't convert SECAM to PAL and a UK set will still only display a black and white picture.  Although I know that someone on the forum got it to work this way. As you can tell I'm being careful to cover myself here as I haven't (and can't) test every combination.   So if you buy any kit for this purpose make sure that you have a few days to take it back for a refund if it doesn't do the business. Anton - yes the TNT (digital terrestrial television) route would work - but only if Coral is moving to an area with a signal....   

I'm glad you (he) has solved it.  Perhaps he'd/you'd better tell us all what he did - could be useful!

It's a bit late to say this now,  but you've just encountered the problem with these combined units:  one bit goes wrong and you can't just separate them and replace that bit.  With a separate VCR you can whip the lid off,  and clean the heads using a strip of ordinary paper,  folded into a curve,  soaked in meths,  and pressed against the head drum while you rotate them by hand.   Sounds crude but works a treat. On yours you risk severe electrocution from the TV bit of the unit (even if unplugged) if you go inside it. Best thing is to buy a head cleaning kit (preferably a wet method one - the solvent is supplied with the kit which contains what looks like an ordinary tape) rather than a dry kit.   If the heads just got clogged during your problems this will cure it. However if (as is very possible) the heads were damaged more severely it's time to get a new VCR (cheap at the moment!) or perhaps upgrade to a DVD recorder if you can.  The head cleaning kit will tell you whether you have a permanent problem or not. Breaking tapes (if it happens more than once) can be a sign of a failing loading mechanism.  Damaged heads or loading system are probably not worth repairing given how cheap a replacement VCR is.  

Robbie - you raise an interesting point here with regard to the original question and recording (ie UK sourced DVD connected to a French TV,  and using the French TV as the "tuner" for recording off air analogue terrestrial).  I can't actually check this as I'm in the UK at present and can therefore only get SECAM signals off satellite. I assume that your method WOULD work via SCART for DVD recording IF the TV outputted RGB when tuned into a SECAM off-air signal.  But do they actually do this?   I ask because it requires a certain amount of sophistication to derive RGB signals from analogue signal sources; (it's very easy for digital material).   Certainly virtually no analogue satellite receiver or VCR does this - they all o/p composite video,  with SECAM still as SECAM and PAL still as PAL.   I can't see how your method would work for DVD recording using phonos as these are (unless you have the RGB separate plugs as o/p's on your TV) composite video,  and a Panasonic UK sourced DVD would still be stumped by the SECAM coming off the TV when you tried to record French TV.   In addition you would be confined to recording whatever the TV was tuned to - you couldn't watch one channel and record another. I'm not trying to nit-pick here;  I honestly hadn't thought of this method of using the TV as a tuner.   And as I say I can't put it to the test here in the UK as I don't have a French UHF signal at my disposal. Anyway,  if the original poster isn't bothered about recording French TV it's all a bit academic anyway as they'll be recording direct from satellite!  

There are two aspects to the TV standards issue;  one is the colour system,  the other (more important and frequently mis-understood) is the transmission standard.   SECAM and PAL are just bolt-on colour systems sitting "within" the transmission standard. What you need to check (assuming you want to watch analogue terrestrial TV in France) is that your TV tunes system L.  In the old east-bloc they used systems D and K with Secam colour;  there is not much difference between D/K and B/G/I apart from the audio/video frequency offset,  and most multistandard sets cope with all of these,  PAL or SECAM. Unfortunately system L is VERY different,  (opposite video polarity,  AM sound, as well as yet another offset) and a lot of multistandard TV's - even SECAM - don't specifically work in France. If you haven't got the manual any more (look under specifications) you'll just have to see....! One way round it (if you have a problem) is to use a French sourced VCR to tune the French terrestrial analogue signals and then feed them for display on your TV - this should work as the VCR will tune the signal and output (via SCART) the sound and picture separately;   the SECAM should then display corretcly on your TV (along with the sound).  This doesn't work for the majority of UK sets because they can't cope with SECAM - even via Scart. But if you just want to view DVD's/satellite via a scart input and aren't worried about French TV it would be fine (as long as you solve the voltage problem).

Just to confirm, I've double checked the Panasonic DVD recorder with a French sourced (ie SECAM) TV and if you feed the Panasonic a SECAM signal it gets completely mashed so that even the SECAM TV won't display it properly. Presumably this Panasonic you're looking at (if it's got £250 off the price) has a hard disk as well..?? (another thing to go wrong if you're in France and bought it in the UK).   BUT PLEASE SEE MY FINAL PARA. It's really difficult to know what to recommend - things move so fast. DVD recorders in general seem to sometimes have a reliablility issue - like most "burners". Personally I'd go cheap but not too cheap. But I would try and buy in France if you can. As to the other query, certainly a DVD recorder sourced in France will "understand" SECAM and system L,  and I would be amazed if it wasn't PAL compatible too. However, before you bring it back to the UK, and assuming you want to record off analogue off air (ie conventional TV) you need to check that it correctly tunes system I. Being French it will "do" system L, and probably systems B and G (in use in most of the rest of Europe). System I (UK) is very similar to B & G but the sound won't work unless system I is specified. Either refer to the instructions or - better - look at the on-screen menus (probably under set-up) and check which systems appear. For example - going back to my Panasonic (DMR-E55) you don't have the option to change TV systems, you can only change the colour system from PAL to NTSC, which refers to playback. Which is why it won't work in France to record off-air. What I realise that I should have said (and is prompted by your second post) is that if all you want to do is watch PAL originated recordings off satellite then the Panasonic would be fine if you link it to the French TV via SCART. The problem only arises if you want to record French TV off air via an aerial (which is what I assumed you wanted to do) and if you try to link the Panasonic to the TV using an aerial fly lead.  If you have a digital satellite box and you hook that up to the DVD recorder with a Scart lead and then the recorder to the TV with a scart lead you should be OK. Sorry if that's what you meant at the start.