winterbunny

[quote user="Jon D"][quote user="Diva Star"] I think the discussion about the veal and meat is a good one too.  [/quote] It is. Most good butchers display information regarding the origin of their meats and are (usually) happy to answer questions about it. All types of meat are available reared to the highest standards of welfare - its really just a question of pounding the pavements until you find a source. [/quote] Absolutely, the only way is to be sure of the source of the meat, that normally means knowing the individual farmer, not practical for most town dwellers; and are folk prepared to pay the price that would have to be charged, there would be no really cheap meat - not that's a bad thing, we'd all fare better health wise if we ate a little less meat based protein.  The biggest problem is that most veau are a by-product (not a nice way of putting it but true) of the dairy industry.  This doean't apply to beef herds like Limousin.  If there was less milk product demand there'd be less need for farmers to have the cows calf and then have to dispose of the result especially the males as there doesn't seem to be a market to raise them for beef. So, if you don't like the veal trade, consider consuming less milk, cheese, butter, cream, yohurt etc. Now what to do with those out of work dairy farmers............ The doggie problem is widespread, we see lots of places where the dogs are kept tied up, but they usually have a place to shelter, if they don't then it's definately an SPA job.  If the animal is obviously cared for despite being tied up, there's not a lot you can do about it. [:(]   

It would be a really sad day if b&b's were just seen as little hotels.  The whole point is that they are all different, with their own charm and aren't the same as chains all the world over.  So as I see it, we offer our paying guests a similar standard to what our personal friends and family get.  I think that's what most of our guests expect.  The only extra is that I put a kettle etc in the rooms, but my reasoning is that I like a morning a cuppa, and take my own guests a cup in bed in the morning, but I don't want our PG's wandering into the kitchen, neither am I going to wait on them, so they can make one themselves.  Some don't even use it, but at least they have the option.  I always put sample toiletries, tissues, hair dryer and towels out for family so I do it for the PG's.  It really is down to personal choice and we should do what we feel comfortable with.  A lot of our French guests say they prefer to stay in English run B&b's; some are cagey as to why, but one or 2 have said they find them more comfortable, and the breakfasts are better.  I had a list from Gdf when they were coming to rate us and on it as part of the 3epis rating was - yes - soap and gants.  Both of the inspectors we have had have made a point in asking if we supply them.  I don't think it's a requirement as such, but would I have my coveted 3 epis.................[8-|] As far as I can see Sawday et al are just other advertising outlets, if they work, all well and good, but for me they are too expensive for what we would get out them (I've got a good turnover anyway, maybe if that drops.......).  I agree very few English run B&b's here are with GdF, I think the language thing has a lot to do with it and some misconceptions as to what you can and can't do.     

Absolutely; I think as part of GdF you are supposed to supply at least soap and wash gloves, we put shampoo and shower gels as well, sometimes they are used, sometimes not.  Also hair dryers and tissues, tea, coffee etc, WIFI because it costs us nothing extra and is part of our abonnement. Metro is good and also Bernard.fr I think does bits if there isn't a Metro close by.  

[quote]I used to use 'factoring' in the Uk does this exist in France?[/quote] Yes you can factor debts, we use Cabinet d'Ormane in Paris, they'll take any debt from 15euros up and say anywhere in Europe.  You do need a proper address for the debtor as for small amounts they won't chase it without. http://dormane.fr Don't take any charges until the debt is fully recovered, then charge is 25%.  As for true factoring of invoices, we haven't had to go down this route as it's a cash flow wheez rather than a true debt chaser. Buns    

[quote]We now know that a number of weeks after banking a cheque you could find that it was duff and therefore you shouldn't give a refund for thousands as a number of these scams ask you to do. However, wh...[/quote] If you are taking card payments with the holder not present, in effect 'vente a distance', the holder has up to 6 months to resile from the transaction - not well known this one; and may add a bit to to your paranoia.  Having used proper bank card machines, rather than pay pal for years, we've never had a problem ...yet.  But there is no need to take more than is owed.  Can they actually pay more than is owed via Pay Pal? If so it's a loophole that should be attended to.   I tend to ask that they phone with card details as it gives a slightly better idea of them than via email. Banking a cheque more than your bill is asking for trouble and could get you in deep waters with contract law and all that.  Best at the end of the day to return it.  If you are particularly suspicious why not ask for a copy of their identity with the cheque and if it's a large amount get your bank to do a bankers check on them, before you send any money off.  To be honest I'd be very wary of anyone who wanted to overpay, smacks of money laundering. Buns  

A lot of scams from Africa, particularly the Nigerian scam, come using yahoo so I'm always cautious.  Most of these posted so far are fairly obviously not koscher inquiries, it's not just the grammer but the style isn't quite right.  I'm tracing some from eastern Europe and Holland as well now. With incoming emails I can click on details and get the IP address that way and can trace the IP of each and every visitor to my web site through my stat counter, also which directory, if any they have used to visit my site.  Some providers don't have fixed IP's so it's not always a useful exercise. I report to my provider all scams I have received and to any directories I use that I can trace them coming through, then delete.  If you do have one you're not sure about and go ahead with a booking, you can acknowledge receipt of any cheques received, bank it straight away and tell them that you will confirm the booking when your bank has finally cleared the cheque.  If they send a cheque for more than you've asked for, be suspicious, personally I send it back and ask for one in the correct amount.  I've learnt that inaction is a good delaying tactic, you don't have to rush and send your own cheque to them, just acknowledge it out of courtesy, sit tight and wait, if they are genuine they'll wait too. At the end of the day, all you might lose is an odd genuine booking but this is worth it for peace of mind. Buns

You can buy lots of different makes of stain removers from the supermarket and try another and then put them through the wash again afterwards.  From experience it often leaves a tell tale ring or a slight discolouration.  I wouldn't put sheets like this back on the B&B beds even though I knew they were cleaned properly, people just don't like to see even slight discolourations, they have vivid imaginations.  If they are cotton you could try bleaching or dye them.  If the stain is in the 'right' place you may be able to cut them down and use a singles or pillow cases.  Otherwise replace them. No, I wouldn't ask the guests to pay for them, if they haven't offered already you are unlikely to get anything other than a grudging payment and they won't come back.  If the mattress is  even slightly stained put in an insurance claim for the lot, that's what our professional insurance is for, otherwise it's probably not worth a claim for sheets alone.  It's part and parcel of B&B I'm afraid, that if an accident can happen, it will, all you can hope is that your guests tell you straight away and don't try to hide it until they've gone!  The quicker you can deal with a problem the easier to solve it. Buns

And Coco please don't feel too bad - that's just how you are meant to feel....Your late arrival instead of being honest and contacting you saying she'd made a mistake could you possibly still fit her in, tried to cover up her mistake and make it into yours, you can be sure she really knew she hadn't confirmed, she was probably busy and it slipped her mind, but............ When booking by email mine goes -yes we have a room, prices etc, if you want to book let me have dates and numbers, contact name address and phone number (gets rid of real timewasters/hoaxers etc), and that I will send a confirmation on return or on receipt of deposit.  I make a note to tell them that the room is not reserved until they have this confirmation.  It has worked a treat this year. Buns  

Just a couple of add ons. The petite licence doesn't cover high proof alcohol drinks such as aperitifs and digestifs even if served with a meal.  The grande licence does, but you can still only serve drinks with food. If you already have a registration you can if you want to just add on the CdH, even if you are with Chambres des Metiers you can have an add on with chambre de commerce.  Costs very little to do this.  If your present income doesn't fall within these schemes then you will have to register separately if your business falls within the category of not very occasional. Buns

Hi Fiona, you are going to get a lot of differing opinions on this one. So my first suggestion would be a make a plan of how often you think you will have people in (how long is a piece of string!) and then pop to your local chamber of Commerce, to get an idea of what is acceptable in your area, before registration comes into play. CdH is different to a Gite as you have seen, my reading of what rules I have been able to glean; is that if it is anything other than a very occasional activity and if you supply any or all of; bedding and clean the rooms, and give them breakfast, then you should be registered as a commercial activity.  If you supply even a cup of tea or orange you need at least the petite licence, but these are easily obtained normally.  They are policed by the douanes through the gendarmerie and you may or may not get a visit once you have one, depends on your area.  I've never had an inspection, but the lady in the next commune has.  This also applies if you put a board up announcing your CdH. You have to display your tarifs in the room and am fairly sure somewhere where they can be seen from outside.  I'm unsure if the table and chair thing is an actual rule of CdH, but more what Gites de France suggest you might supply.  If you are going to have guests, think what would make you comfortable in a room, and I guess a couple of chairs and even a coffee table, would make it that bit better; unless there isn't room for them and then have a good think if the room is really right for CdH. Buns

It is dependant on area/department for sure, but there are general guidelines and the pack can be downloaded from the GdF web site, you don't have to wait for them to bring it to you.  If you want a 3 epis rating follow the guidelines and also think about what you want when you go CdH.  Our experience: Fitted the rooms out to a good standard with quality furniture, bedding, shower rooms and equipment, made sure they were larger than some we have seen as for 3 epis you need rooms over a certain size.  First contact was made and they were here within a fortnight, had a coffee, measured up, checked quality of bedding etc given contract and rating there and then. Contacted them for our signs, they brought them within a week. They didn't even suggest a coin cuisine and it certainly didn't figure in the pack, but they suggested TdH would be an advantage.  We do have table and chairs and plenty of sockets so people can work or review paperwork in peace in their rooms, but also a salon so they can sit comfortably, a small library of books and magazines coffee machine, and fridge, but none of these contributed to the epis rating. Yes, the meeting was conducted in French, I saw no reason to expect it would be in English.  Gdf target French as well as foreign visitors and it seems natural to expect that a resident in France running a business will speak at least some French.  I don't think you can compromise, our Chambre de Commerce even offers a series of cut price French lessons. Any time I've rung or emailed I've had a response within the week. So don't be put off, just because one employee is a miserable g**, doesn't mean you shouldn't perservere, it's unlikely to be personal, just their way. Buns  

Bedding is not so difficult as it's all metric, but getting fitted sheets 200cm long can be tricky, although you can buy the longer beds no problem!  You can buy the rectangular pillows UK style from most of the large hyper stores, and there are web sites as well such as La Redoute, 3 Suisses, Bequet, Camif; and the Linvoges catalogue, who do quite a good linen range. There is an Ikea in Bordeaux, not so far from Charente and they do deliveries at a cost and some sales by internet for larger items like beds.  Buns  

Cerise you are singing from my hymn sheet.  I don't want to act like an oldfashioned Blackpool landlady (with apologies and all that), but we are bed and breakfast, if we wanted to have them make their own meals, we'd have gone for self catering.  We don't eat in bedrooms and we offer evening meals or tell them where the best restaurants to suit their tastes are and they can have fridge space to put picnic stuff to eat elsewhere - but the problem of mice and ants is a constant battle, and I've been put off by the smell of rancid cheese in the waste paper basket, or even squashy fruit and banana skins unwrapped found in the drawers, crumbs pressed into the sheets etc.  No, now I simply ask them not to partake in this little activity. Buns

I can agree with the 5 emails or more.  We have been having emails from a couple since October; I detected it early on as a hoax, as the dates kept changing, and they were asking peculiar questions; I finally got fed up with it as time wasting as the season got underway, so pressed them for a deposit within a fixed period of time and lo and behold they decided they weren't even coming to France after all!! Quelle surprise.  It doesn't matter if it's genuine, having to keep replying to non specific emails is time consuming; if it's a good time away ask them for a deposit; if they are genuine they will understand that you can't keep a room months or so ahead without some promise that they will show.  You know the whole idea is to sell our rooms, and if we can't close that deal early on, it probably isn't going to happen. There's one or 2 I wouldn't have back and one lot I suggested to them that they'd be better off self catering and what about those who sneaked friends in for a quick shower or those that decide not to eat with you but picnic in their rooms and leave a mess of food for you to clear up  Buns

GdF circulate a general email about particularly problem guests, the one that seemed to crop up a lot last year and this is, a lorry driver from Belgium, seems he does a flit every time!  As I ask for deposits or up front payments if I feel it necessary, I haven't had a problem --Yet............it'll happen one day. Take the car numbers, it might help identify them for others and always notify the gendarmerie so they can be on the look out. Buns

[quote]"I don't think we should lose sight of the fact that to qualify for GdF CdH we have to be a private residence and not a commercial inn/hotel." I agree but I did think thats what Logis de France was...[/quote] I absolutely see where you are coming from here; my only comment would be that GdF are very keen to have foreign tourists come to the area.  If they really intend to put us in a straight jacket on this, then either the foreign tourists will be discouraged, (a lot of them deliberately seek out non French CdH's because they are worried about language/food etc) or people like us will simply move away from GdF, who only bring in a small proportion of our business anyway.  Surely it would be a better move for them to review and be more flexible in their rules and bring more under their umbrella and so promote standards over a wider range of properties. I feel our GdF rating is not so much for the business it's brings in (see above), but as much to try to demonstrate locally a certain integration into the community, I would rather remain within it's boundaries, but not if it means I lose business.  There are a large number locally who operate exactly as they please outside any organisation's constraints and have not yet made themselves known to the authorities.  This is their choice but it becomes untenable if the competition they offer means we lose business. Buns

Thank you for that, Quillan, it's a bit muddied and I suspect that not only are the departmental rules variable but also those of GdF in each region - have you had a look at the Gites thread on someone is watching you to see what is happening in Pas de Calais. The hygiene regs are dealt with by the veterinary dept of each departement; you can locate your dept link from the link at the end of the inforeg fiche and some useful info at http://www.finances.gouv.fr/DGCCRF/04_dossiers/concurrence/fichespro/27restauration.htm I don't think we should lose sight of the fact that to qualify for GdF CdH we have to be a private residence and not a commercial inn/hotel.  It surely must be a nightmare to try to regulate what each private home offers as very few of us have the space or wherewithall to comply with restaurant regs, nor, I suggest are we in practice expected to do so.  In a lot of cases it would mean that TdH is no longer a viable activity.  Personally I am building a second small kitchen with access to our dining room which I can kit out to be more hygienic than our family kitchen, which although I try to keep scrupulous clean, does have a lot of traffic through it by the family, simply because of it's position in the house.  It's easy and practical enough for us to do this conversion, but not necessarily  for others to do the same.  Of course my other suspicion is that if we are deemed to be a restaurant simply because we can't keep to the no choice rule, we then become a commercial premises and no longer qualify for GdF as a CdH - bit of a catch 22.  What I might do later on in the year when we are quieter is to collate all the info I have and pop along to our Vet services, chambre de commerce and GdF. It would be unsupportable if only GdF and Clevacances members had to comply with the rules and regs and others operating independantly could do as they please.  The inforeg fiche doesn't make this difference, and their rules apply to everyone. My customers are important to me and I want to make their experience of France a pleasant memory, it would be a shame if some fairly petty rule meant that they went away feeling unwelcome simply because they want to be fed in a particular way and we had to say no. Buns  

Knowing how the French like us to accommodate children, I find it very difficult to believe that an official wouldn't turn a blind eye.  I always ask if the kids will eat 'normal' food as I don't do special childrens meals (they can go to a restaurant where special childrens meals are on offer) . Mostly though their tummies can't cope with a huge meal so they have a smaller version of the main course and the pud (they love home made puds) or ice cream or fruit.  I muse that is not offering something still choice, they don't get the wine either.  One little one didn't eat anything with 'texture', including meat, vegetables and fruit and juice with bits in it etc.  I did her a small individual macaroni cheese and chips! (not very balanced I know, but she was a lovely little thing) Now, I didn't charge for that meal, so presumably fell foul somewhere.  Thinking about it my crimes are even more heinous and when we've had 2 small ones I've only charged for one meal which they split between them. And at the other end of the scale, what about the family granny that has to have the food a bit bland and mushy.  Buns 

Quote: The gist of the letter is that, as members of GdF we naturally have to pay appropriate taxes, local charges, local tourism publicity etc, that increase our costs, while other owners, who operate unclassified holiday accommodation and don't belong to any recognised network such as GdF, may not be operating under the same financial constraints. May not, is the operative wording, it would be interesting to see if we GdF CdH get a similar letter.  There are other classifications available with other organisations and I know GdF in our area were particularly concerned that we didn't sign up with them.  It is wrong for them to assume that those not with them are not being up front.  I know of many, of course, who are not and some who are; I also know a couple of GdF members sailing close to the wind and although GdF members don't have registration, licences, pay taxes etc. Quote: We are then asked to fill in a questionnaire notifying GdF how many such unregistered establishments we know of in our area. We are not asked to give names and addresses, but I can't help feeling that might be the next step, or, anyway, that some proprietaires might take this as an invitation to "denounce" a few of their competitors . If they want to check, all they have to do is scour the various brochures and directories, then check with the chambre de commerce and douanes for licences.  They could then send out letters to all those concerned directly.  I don't think it's for us to do their work for them.  Is this some sort of fall out from their fall out with other organisations.  Perhaps there is someone on the forum  more in the know with GdF who can explain the policy purpose. Quote: It certainly seems that GdF, together with other organisations they refer to but don't name, may be preparing a case to lobby for compulsory registration of holiday cottages, CdH's, and any other tourist accommodation. Do I do right in assuming you mean Chambre de Commerce registration? Well, it already is for most CdH, affiliated to GdF or not, except for those offering only the  most basic facilities or operating on a very occasional basis.  Those Gites which are not classed as commercial operation are a different matter, but perhaps it is time it was brought in, so we are all singing from the same hymn sheet.  If you mean GdF registration, although a member, I would oppose compulsory membership as I think it would be detrimental to the variety and numbers of accommodation on offer.  I wonder if in your area you have an over-preponderance of 'foreign' owned holiday accommodation?  Has this drawn some bad blood somewhere, with the perception that these are the people not paying their dues? Buns

Just a thought Zeb, can you claim on either your professional insurance or the garden owners? - if they have hidden objects that you can't detect on a walk round is it their responsibility if your equipment gets wrecked?  I only cut my own but have a cheapy bestgreen sit on from Bricomarche now 7 years old and bless it's heart it's cut proper fields with marsh grass and hit numerous rocks and mole hills over the years and been bashed into edges - I'm none to agile on it, still goes like a train and the cutter deck is still in one piece. Buns

C'est la vie Buns

You’ve invested time and money in setting up your rooms and fitting them out, you’ve got your registration and licence sorted, if you’re with say GdF you’ve been inspected and graded and your (expensive) advertising campaign is under way. Then the inquiries start to come in and hopefully your business is going to start giving you returns. You soon realise that you will have to offer meals as more and more of your potential guests are asking for this and you know you’ve lost business because you don’t do them. You kit out your kitchen and dining room, make sure you have at least a vague idea of food hygiene, get your anti-poisoning insurance and off you go offering your table d’hotes. You take some very nice bookings and one weekend you’re full, you’ve got a party of 15 in plus your family of 5, you are catering for 20 at ‘family’ meals. You have table space for all, but in 2 tables side by side – good, you can separate off the noisy kids, the table bore, the loudmouth and the family can spread themselves in between warring partners. Nope, you can’t, that would be a restaurant. Then you are informed little Emily is a vegetarian/gluten dairy free/peanut allergy (all or any) can you do special little meal for her – only too delighted it’s a big booking! Nope you can’t that would be a restaurant, you are offering choice. The party don’t want huge meals just a couple of courses, can you do it, yes only to pleased to oblige, you’ll reduce the price to reflect the smaller meal – you think yes, I can do this as all are being offered the same meal for the same price even if it is less than your normal menu. Well at least you’ve got something right. Or is not offering something considered to be choice? If it is the answer is yes, this is choice you can't do it, you’d be a restaurant. So what do you do, realistically. You take the booking and accommodate their needs. You have to, if you don’t you will lose a very lucrative booking and they’ll still make a reservation somewhere else, probably at Jane Doe’s down the road, who is operating without registration, licence, insurance or paying dues and you know she’s a couple of euros less than you and frankly doesn’t care less about the regs you’ve studied so hard and tried to abide by. Buns

Arnold: inforeg is a very useful government site which gives information on a whole host of businesses.  I originally accessed it through the CCI Paris site which governs all the chambres of commerce;  gives useful food for thought for all of us offering chambre d'hotes and tables d'hotes http://www.inforeg.ccip.fr/fiches/pdf/chambres_hote.pdf http://www.inforeg.ccip.fr/fiches/pdf/table_hote.pdf They are quite specific if you serve at more than one table you are a restaurant, if you serve a choice you are a resaturant.  You can also access links for the hygiene rules and food prep for your area. Buns

This lot is getting good reading what! Inforeg states roughly translated that there isn't a legal definition of tables d'hotes, and that the traditional way of distinguishing it from a restaurant is that 4 elements need to be respected, otherwise it becomes classed as a restaurant. 1. it is an activity run along side an hebergement activity 2. one menu is offered without the possibility of any choice for any course and cooked from local ingredients (my best translation on terroir) 3. It is served at a family table and to the extent that the  paying guests don't all have separate tables 4.  that the number eating is limited to the sleeping capacity in the hebergement. I also interpret this as it doesn't mean that the local ingredients can't be cooked in an imaginative way, nor that if the guests choose not to have a couple or 2 courses they can't be charged less.  GdF only state a maximum you can charge not a minimum and inforeg is silent on this altogether, apart from stating the guests should know how much they are to be charged and should be given a proper bill.  Inforeg only gives a guideline before these conditions that the meal would normally be regional in flavour, but also says in the manner of the host family - if your method of cooking is not your French regional I don't really think it is considered of the greatest importance, provided you use local ingredients. The matter of where they eat is more important if your family table is in the kitchen with your pets and cooking going on - my interpretation of the more important food hygiene regs which also apply to tables d'hotes; mean that this is forbidden, so as long as your guests eat at one table and you can eat there yourself it doesn't have to be and actually shouldn't be in your own kitchen/diner. Frankly I really don't think anyone is going to get into trouble for giving one guest a different main course because of dietary dislikes or needs.  I would be prepared to challenge it with the authorities if they decided to have a pop at me for giving one lass a chicken breast instead of duck!! especially as that chicken was local fermier. As for competing with local restaurants, no we offer a different service.  I actively encourage my guests to go the local restaurants and book the tables for them if they don't speak French.  A lot choose to have meals because they don't want to drive again that night (we're not in walking distance of any) or because like us they've got fed up of an endless choice of beef or duck or veal head, or frozen fish; all with the same sauces and frankly a lot not locally sourced because of cost - I've seen the Metro promos and then lo and behold they appear on the menus.  If the local restaurants complain because of the few meals in proportion we do then they have to look to producing good quality food choice that people want.  The tourist trade here is growing and all local people in it including ourselves have to move to keep up with modern demands. Buns  

Things have moved on this since I was last able to drop in - but Ian I do have to take you up on one point.  I most definately am not against French rules and regulations.  Can you let me have a link for the document you quote from, I would be most interested to see the up to date position.  All I have been able to see so far in the info I have, does not give any penal strictures or fines etc..I would find it useful to know the complete picture.  I am perfectly happy with reading legal docs in French.  Having lived and worked in France for over 10 years; I understand that France is not the UK!! and thank heavens for that. Even in France one is able to stay well within the rules/guidelines and still operate an effective, flexible and legal business, which is what I aim to do. Like Coco I determine the likes and dislikes of our guests beforehand and cook accordingly.  Ours are always set menus.  I do not and would not offer a choice of menus or any part of a menu for any particular night but I vary our set menu each day and don't think I've ever cooked the same complete menu, I like variety, but include regularly my tried and tested favourites.  And I agree Arnold that we cannot and should not offer a restaurant variety of menus.  Personally I wouldn't want to do that.  I'm a perfectly good home cook for a small number of people eating the same food, but am not trained as a chef and wouldn't offer myself as one. I also serve it within French restaurant rules of water and bread on the table, we also include wine in with the price so it is a complete menu with no choice apart from red or white or both! Our own preferred way of eating is to serve from central bowls and platters; so I tend to do this for TdH guests as well.  Those desserts I make as individual glasses such as trifles and mousses are 'plated' so to speak as are the salad starters.  I don't like have a plated main meal stuck in front of me in private homes, I put up with it in a restaurant.  Sometimes people just put too much in general which is overfacing or too much of one thing and I would prefer to serve myself. An instance last night was that most of our guests wanted to try some of our home grown duck, however one only eats chicken and fish, the whole menu was served except I gave her a steamed chicken breast with the cherry and Kirsch sauce I had made for the duck breasts and veg served as for the others.  Personally I don't see this as falling outwith any rules, if I had served her duck it would have been wasted and I always have chicken breasts in so where was the problem, she didn't actually have a choice I told her what she was getting.  Incidentally for the rest of their stay I have been cooking exclusively chicken and fish for all of us.  I would not cook veggie for a whole table unless they were all happy to eat it, I think this is one area where it would be perfectly OK to serve a separate main course.  As I've said before it only needs to be the main dish to be served as specifically veggie, the rest of the meal can be worked as veggie with nobody really knowing it. Buns