chessfou

Yes, Lyon is expensive. However, for example, SeLoger have 200 places in Bordeaux at under €520 and 68 in Carcassonne, so no problem with quantity. As for quality, maybe the OP will need to look around the country a bit. In our experience (admittedly at the upper end, which may be a bit different) we found about twice the space/quality here as in the UK to be the general rule of thumb.

[quote]We understand that the majority of the French people rent, rather than own their own house so where do we look to find a nice unfurnished property to rent for about €500 pm. I have tried trolling through many web sites, but all I seem to find are winter lets! Maybe I will have to look at adverts in the local newspapers.[/quote] Yes, your local newspaper will have a few/some/many ads. You don't say where you're looking (€500 won't get you much in Paris but in most of France it'll get you something at least acceptable). Here are the "big five" (there are loads of others but these are the ones the French mainly use -  Le Monde): http://www.seloger.com/ http://www.logic-immo.com/ http://www.pap.fr/ http://www.explorimmo.com/ http://www.agences-immobilieres.com/reseau-immobilier/fnaim.htm [quote]Has anyone reading this posting have had experience of permanent renting? I would appreciate to hear of their experience, good or bad! [/quote] How long's a piece of string? We rented for a while in the UK and now in our second year here. Generally all good experiences but it certainly helps to find a good landlord/agent (the former not too difficult, the latter much harder).

It's normal for the tenant to be responsible for the "ramonage" and agencies would expect to "tick off" receipt of a copy of your receipt for said sweeping. [quote]Also, does the landlord have to give me proof of buildings insurance?[/quote] I very much doubt it. Why? It is normal for the tenant to have to provide the landlord/agent with copies of appropriate insurance - fire & water (sometimes referred to as "dégats", ours is entitled "attestation d'assurance locataire") and then there's "attestation d'assurance responsabilité civile villegiature" with (possibly optional) "attestation d'assurance responsabilité civile vie privée" and the agents tick off receipt of these each year and wouldn't sign the agreement to begin with without them. If you're concerned about your rights, contact ADIL (Les Agences Départementales pour l'Information sur le Logement): http://www.anil.org/adils/carte.htm

[quote]It's similar to levying income tax on prostitution.[Gluestick][/quote] I don't think so; there's a whole raft of UK legal precedent for winnings not being taxable. I can't remember the detail but as I recall the most important test case involved a card (poker, I think) player whose trade was running a loss-making cafe in one room of which he made his living playing poker and his winnings were deemed to be separate from the trade and untaxable.

pas forcément = it ain't necessarily so (as in George & Ira Gershwin's Porgy & Bess).

And if you want to have the numbers correct, they should be written: 1.700 in French rather than the English version 1,700 and 7.000 rather than 7,000. If you need to add any cents, then you use a comma (not a full stop), e.g.: 1.700,25 It will also help if you put a little horizontal bar through the middle of the stem of your 7s.

[quote]I'm happy that this doesn't seem to be your situation but you shouldn't make assumptions, much less offer advice, based solely on your own situation. Life assurance to cover a large IHT bill would be something most people could only dream of! You seem to be leading a very sheltered life![KathyC][/quote] NB - I offered no advice (beyond asking the question whether or not life assurance was actually needed - there are hordes of financial salesmen out there happy to sell unnecessary LA to the gullible). I also made no assumptions (statistically, those aged 50+ generally do not need life assurance - that is not an "assumption" just a statement of fact). "Sheltered" - haha, no; "privileged," yes.

[quote]another factor that is likely to be taken into account by the french tax authorities is whether your employer has historically contributed to it or if has just been your contributions. If the former it is easier to argue it is a pension as french would understand it.[freddy][/quote] Although the French (effectively) have plenty of "self-employed" artisans.

[quote]I'd have to disagree with you in general and, more particularly, in my own case where I have a disabled husband. Why do you think this?[KathyC][/quote] In general you would be wrong* (but correct in your case) because most 50+ (e.g. my wife and I) no longer have dependants and therefore life assurance makes little (or no) sense unless you are going to leave a large IHT bill that could cause a nasty financial problem for those who inherit. *The point of life assurance (aside from IHT matters) is basically to ensure that dependants will be ok in the event of the demise of a principal "bread-winner" (whether in a family or as "key-man" insurance in a business).

[quote]I'll need to take out further term life assurance[KathyC][/quote] Are you sure you actually need any life assurance? Very, very few people in their 50s need it. Sorry, I can't answer the question you actually asked.

Put "PdP" (or "Pas de Pub" - short for pas de publicité) on your box and that should eliminate most of it (unless Canal/TPS have got their teeth into you).

I'm not sure but I suspect it's there so that "One" as a foreigner, resident in France, can't get away with having "tax-free" offshore accounts with substantial French shareholdings - they wouldn't be caught by IV.2 ("valeurs mobilieres étrangeres"), hence IV.1.

ISAs (ditto PEPs) can only be opened by UK residents. Once open, they can be retained and used by those who leave the UK. However, if you leave the UK then you may not add any further funds unless and until you again become UK resident.

[quote]The 2047 I have and everybody else has, has a section 1 IV headed REVENUES DES VALEURS  ET CAPITAUX MOBILIERS  ET REVEBNUS ASSIMILIES, which is for French generated income, hence my comment[RonAvery][/quote] Ah, now I see what you mean (it's Section IV.1) and on this form (2047 red) the letters (TS) etc. simply indicate where to put the numbers (possibly involving addition) on 2042 (blue). As it happens, we have nothing for this section (IV.1) this year (just IV.2.A and IV.2.B). [quote]that makes two of us making tax returns in the Aveyron then[RonAvery][/quote] I trust there will be rather more; there are four Anglo/Irish names in the phone book just for our small commune (550h split over 30 or more hamlets plus a surprisingly large number of isolated dwellings).

[quote]Although neither method is fraudulent so I guess you do whichever you feel works out best for you.[cooperlola][/quote] I would prefer to follow the route that: (1) is indicated in the notes; (2) I was told to follow by my tax inspector, unless I can get Mr.2 to agree that (1) is not correct (which seems implausible).

[quote]One last point, Chessfou, If you do not receive savings interest or rent generated in France you clearly do not complete box TS in section 1 do you? [RonAvery][/quote] Sorry, you have totally lost me. There is no box TS in "section 1." Box TS is in section 2, p.3 of form 2042. I do, indeed, have to complete box TS (section 2, p.3., form 2042) as directed by form 2047 and the notes thereto (2047NOT).

There's apparently a big difference in cost: £300-£1000+/week in UK http://www.housingcare.org/making-elderly-housing-choices/care-homes.aspx#payforcarehome v. €1700/month = €392/week = £270/week average in France http://www.seniorplanet.fr/mag/les-parlementaires-envisagent-des-aides-pour-payer-la-maison-de-retraite.13260.html which looks like the UK average must be at least double the French average. [just taking a break from mind-boggling tax questions]

Sorry, as if this thread was not complicated enough, I left out the first para of note 5, so here it is again (apologies for lack of accents other than acute), complete: 5. Les <<revenus des valeurs mobilieres étrangeres et revenus assimilés>> ouvrent droit dans certains cas, et notamment en application des conventions internationales conclues par la France, a un crédit d'impot destiné a tenir compte du prélevement effectué a la source a l'étranger. En conséquence vous devez porter: - dans tous les cas, dans les colonnes 2, 5 ou 8 (selon la nature des produits encaissés) des tableaux 2-A et 2-B, le montant net de ces revenus, déduction faite de l'impot étranger. [my bold and remember that col 5 is the one for interest]

[quote]In answer to your other comment, I do think that montant net encaissé is somewhat ambiguous.[allanb][/quote] Really? Note 5 (2047NOT) seems 100% clear to me; I quote (leaving out the bit about USAians): - dans tous les cas, dans les colonnes 2, 5 ou 8 (selon la nature des produits encaissés) des tableaux 2-A et 2-B, le montant net de ces revenus, déduction faite de l'impot étranger. [my bold and remember that col 5 is the one for interest] How can that be interpreted to mean "Gross, including any tax deducted"? Also, if "montant net encaissé" didn't mean what it appears to, then you would presumably be putting the grossed up figure (dividend + tax credit) in column 2 of 2-A for dividends (which would clearly be a nonsense since, having included the 11% tax credit in that figure, you would then be adding it a second time as per columns 3 and 4).

[quote]You can actually enter your interest in box TS in section 1 or box TS in 2b on the 2047,[RonAvery][/quote] No, sorry, it has to be both and you have to start in the right place. You start with form 2047 (not 2042) and, having done so, then transfer the relevant amounts to the relevant boxes (on 2042 and/or 2042C) - that is why they use those little right-pointing triangular arrows and follow up with the specific wording (e.g. at the end of Section IV.2.B of form 2047): Chacun des montants TS, CA, TA et BG est a reporter sur la declaration des revenus (2 lignes TS, CA et BG; et 8 ligne TA). My bold - i.e. Form 2042 (and, if necessary, 2042C). It clearly makes sense. Take a look at 2042 - there are no directions to follow (e.g. now enter this on 2047). [quote]As AllanB says you declare the amount gross not net, net amounts only apply if you have paid tax in another country and cannot claim it back. [RonAvery][/quote] Well, that's absolutely NOT what the form says. It states quite clearly (which is also what "yer man" told me): - enter the montant net encaissé in column 5 - enter the % a appliquer in col 6 (consult the table - the table says 0) - enter col 5xcol 6 in col 7 - proceed to A - then B - then C (which, out of interest, is a line for receipts from countries without a double taxation agreement) - sum A+B+C which gives the figure to go to TS.

[quote]However, if your friend in Rodez is right, I can correctly declare only £80 as taxable interest in France, whereas you will have to declare £100 and pay tax on it.  [allanb][/quote] No, surely you declare £80 and, as, when and if you get the £20 back, then you must declare that as well (since it adds to the "montant net encaissé" figure).

How can one interpret "montant net encaissé" any other way? [quote]May I suggest that in your discussion with the tax office, the distinction wasn't made clearly between a tax credit (which is a recognised way of avoiding double taxation) and a tax repayment (which is the correction of an error)?[allanb] [/quote] Hmm, well no; that was pretty much his point why it was done this way. Although your example does make me wonder. (Are we missing some subtlety here about which bits are subjected not just to French tax but also to CRDS? Not to mention the significance of those "credits impots" when they do apply). The one thing I do know is that my head always hurts whenever I fill in a tax or VAT return/form anywhere in the world (especially in Russia, Spain and, above all, USA).

Thanks allanb et.al. but much of the "received wisdom" of the thread is wrong (at least according to the Hotel des Impots in Rodez, where I spent the best part of an hour with the "Patron"* on Friday morning). [*best to speak to the head man, if possible] Probably the single most important thing I learned from the meeting was to ignore form 2042 until having completed form 2047, only then tackle form 2042 (and 2042C, transferring the relevant figures as indicated by form 2047). We start with form 2047 (so, nothing entered in 2042 yet) and I doubt very much that you will follow this unless you have a copy of form 2047 in front of you (a small download from www.impots.gouv.fr): In our case, we stick our pensions (private) into I on page 1 of 2047 (and, as it tells us to do there, on form 2042), We then move on to section IV.2.A and deal with the dividends and, having transferred the relevant figures from here to DC (form 2042) and TA (form 2042C), then to Section IV.2.B for the interest on our UK bank and savings accounts ("offshore" accounts would be dealt with the same way, I believe) which we should enter as follows: Col.1 "Royaume-Uni" (or "Grande Bretagne) Col 5 "xxx" being the total amount of interest received by us (net of any taxes withheld inc. EU withholding tax) Col 6 "0" Col 7 "0" A       "xxx" i.e. "Total des Revenus" (cols 2+5+8 - in our case, interest only, col 5) B       "0" C      "0" sums "xxx" and this is the amount that goes to box TS on form 2042 (in our case nothing more for lines CA, TA or BG)

[quote]I wonder if anyone could answer a question for me regarding the Capital Gains Tax on Share Sales. [/quote] As it happens, yes I can. [quote]I believe that in 2007 there is a tax exempt limit in turnover of share transactions of 20,000 Euros and I have a few questions regarding this :[/quote] The limit is €15,000. Yes, it is "turnover" not "gain." €15,001 and you must declare  (see form 2074 & the relevant notes 2074NOT - the limit and its application is clearly stated on page 2 of the notes which can be downloaded from the link at www.impots.gouv.fr). [quote] Is this limit per household or per person ?[/quote] Per foyer/household [I'm only 90% certain on this one]. [quote] If you exceed the limit, is the first 20,000 Euros of turnover still exempt, or is all the associated profit taxable (ie if the turnover is 20,001 is all the profit taxable) ? [/quote] Unfortunately, the whole lot (rem. the limit is €15k). [quote] If you do not exceed 20,000 Euros do you need to put anything on the tax return ?[/quote] No, because you won't need to complete a 2074, assuming the total of your sales is €15k or less.

Although usage is another matter. Not many km SSE from you everyone uses "mass" to the extent that Michel Bras is usually referred to (other than "God") as "Brass" (think Northern English pronunciation). I'm not sure but I think that the "mass" pronunciation continues on down throughout Languedoc (presumably from the original d'Oie/d'Oc split).