chessfou

[quote]At the moment we rent over here in England so shouldn't be too hard (hopefully). What worries me is that both my partner and I are both self employed. I'm worried about 'proving our income', particularly as a big chunk of it is paid in sterling[/quote] So, you've got some references (especially the receipts for the rent paid, and the contract); self-employed is no problem - you've got your UK tax returns; Sterling income is no problem (as long as it equates to the requisite number of €). However, the whole thing will probably get complicated. Have you already opened a French bank account? If not do so a.s.a.p. - you can't even start the process without one. If you've already decided on an area, then visit the main rental agencies there (allow several days, so that you can make appointments - you can't just walk in off the street, unless you want to put them off; and make sure you take all relevant docs with you - 3 months bank statements, last couple of tax returns, etc.) and discuss with them (on the spot) what exactly they need in the way of documentation (they all have a printed list but, unsurprisingly, not all of the items have direct uk equivalents) and what monthly rental limit they will impose (the 30% rule in general). Make sure you include IMMO de France among your ports of call. That way you have a decent chance of being prepared to action things fairly rapidly when it comes time to select a property.

[quote]i imagine that renting in France is broadly similar to the UK, unless someone can tell me otherwise.[/quote] [markspence] Quite different really (except at the very top end - several £k/month in uk or/week in London). (1) In uk most people will look at you oddly (and talk behind your back) if you mention that you are renting (even or perhaps especially if it is an "expensive" rental). In France it is quite normal; (2) The legal position is vastly superior in France - comes close to security of tenure with a standard 3-year contract (6-year if rg proprietaire is a company); (3) The sheer quantity of property available is far greater than in uk and the range is even greater (the expectation being that even many well-off people will rent rather than buy); (4) Rental costs (as purchase costs) in France are far below those in the uk (on a like-for-like basis).

Ten years is but a brief flicker - know anyone taking out a ten year mortgage? Try looking at the returns over 30 years or more (still moderately typical for a modern-day mortgage, I believe, though still a fair way in advance of the 25 over which we did ours). Last time I looked UK HPI was about 1-2% p.a. (real terms) over 30 years while stock market returns were 3-4% p.a. (again, real terms). The odd per cent or so may not sound a lot but compounds considerably. But houses or stock market, it's all the same - buy when they're cheap and sell when they're expensive, albeit tricky to do with one's home. [To some extent we managed to do that, in both domains, but I did notice last year that the house next door but one - the "wrong" direction - from our last London house was on the market for a cool £4 million, now that really is expensive.]

Yes, UK mentality is one of the most "fixed" in Europe (renting=dead money; renting=lower social class; all nonsense). For anyone in our position (option of buying outright, unlike the millions of UK "homeowners" who rent their homes from their mortgage company, or of renting), it makes enormous sense to rent (at least in France - somewhat trickier in UK). (1) Can we be absolutely certain we will remain in France? (2) Do our children want to move to France? (3) If so, is it certain that they would also want to/be able to move to the "middle of nowhere"? If all three of the above are "yes" then, certainly, buy in order to have the (almost) absolute certainty of permanence but otherwise ...? (not to mention the fact that stock market returns, over time, generally match or beat house price inflation in real terms, so I would, in general, sooner have the "money" than the "bricks and mortar.")

We have what is arguably a British house on the outside and  a French house on the inside. We began planning in 1999 with a view to moving to France in 2005 (postponed to 2006 when younger son took a gap year). We had often visited France (almost all parts) and by the beginning of 2004 had narrowed it down to the one department. We spent the next two years gradually looking round the department (about 7 trips to all points of the compass and taking in all the different areas) but come November 2005 we still hadn't decided on a specific location and with a moving date of May 2006 fast approaching, we decided that the best thing to do would be to find somewhere to rent fairly central in the department so that we could then continue our searches on the ground. Serendipity! I saw a place on a web site that looked as though it could be ideal. Smallish village, lovely old stone outside, overly renovated on the inside but done with reasonably good taste (although we would never have messed about with the old fireplace), even ADSL. When we visited, that was it, we simply had to take it. Perhaps as a T5 (plus sous-sol, cave and grange=double garage) it's a bit large for two but it works for us since it means we each have our own study and still have two guest bedrooms. A view (over the village and across four valleys) which we considered to be the best we had seen in the whole department (outside of some gorgeous views in the gorges but they were all subject to potentially vicious flooding) although we now know that there are two other locations within about 10km that have even better views. So, we went through the considerable hassle of getting the rental agreement in place - French immobiliers have it firmly implanted that anyone from the UK wanting to rent will soon find somewhere they want to buy and skip off, dropping the keys in (if lucky) - so we had to jump through lots of hoops. The agreement was set up in February and we moved in May (2006), which allowed plenty of time for occasional visits to ensure that everything (including kitchen appliances, some new furniture and all services) was in place well in advance of the main move. Barring the unknown we will continue to rent this place at least until we are too old to drive which, since we have French licences, is likely to be "never."

[quote]only 2.6 kilogram or 6.5 litres bottle[/quote][Le Plombier] So, you are saying that what Primagaz state on their web-site is contrary to the law: 13kg butane (24kg-13kg butane=11kg empty) Stockage : à l’intérieur de la maison http://www.primagaz.fr/majic/pageServer/0t030000o9/fr/Catalogue-Bouteilles-Particulier.html That doesn't seem likely to me since they would be laying themselves open to punitive fines.

Interesting. Butane - indoors Propane - outdoors. The Primagaz site has all kinds of useful details, not least the safety regs: http://www.primagaz.fr/primagaz/3/doc/Documentation/Les_regles_de_securite.pdf Despite the fact that the safety regs document says that bottles should not be stored "en sous-sol" it is pretty clear that they are fine in our sous-sol. How so? Well, aside from the fact that our sous-sol is fairly voluminous (ca. 80m3), it also has two external doors (which face each other) at ground level and which provide plenty of ventilation (in practice, if there should be any escape of gas, it should float down and out the back door into the garden - the s-s slopes very slightly end to end, with the gas at the upper end, and significantly front to back). At least I think so, anyone think different? It does sound like any "cave" will be ruled out.

"not allowed" - please point to chapter and verse (preferably French source). "not a good idea" - why? In our house the gas bottle is placed in the sous sol almost directly below the table de cuisson (3 rings gas, 1 electric - handy if you run out of gas) - about 2 metres below. How else would the layout be achieved? I would have thought there would more likely be regs against having gas cyclinders actually in the kitchen (especially if a combined kitchen/salon). PS. We always keep 2 bottles on the go - shortly after changing over, we get a replacement for the empty one.

Also, when exchanging your licence, make sure you have both bits (the paper as well as the plastic card) because you will be (ought to be; probably will be) asked for them both. I had not taken the paper bit with me (1. I had forgotten; 2. I couldn't remember where it was) ... "no problem, just send it in the post when you find it" (but don't count on such a helpful response).

[quote]because our Social Security number had changed[/quote] I thought SS numbers (like NI numbers) were for "life" and never changed ... ?

(a) Do you already have a "presence" in France (job, bank account) whatever? (b) Are you starting from scratch from the UK? If (a) much less than if (b) - in the latter case allow at least a couple of months (assuming you have excellent relations with your bank) or more. In any event the 30% (rent as % of income) is likely to be a determining factor.

Yes, according to methodology, there are only 4 or 6 EU countries ahead of the UK: "PPI" methodology: Luxembourg, Netherlands, Denmark, Ireland. "Atlas" methodology: Luxembourg, Denmark, Ireland, Sweden, Netherlands, Finland (figures for 2006) source World Bank: http://siteresources.worldbank.org/DATASTATISTICS/Resources/GNIPC.pdf Then again, EU stats should (probably) be more accurate for EU countries and they put the UK 8th (for 2006): Luxembourg, Ireland, Netherlands, Austria, Denmark, Sweden and Belgium being ahead. source Eurostat: http://tinyurl.com/jl5jv

[quote]However, the situation you discribe could just be the passport you need to the CMU, as you need to prove you cannot get full PHI, due to insurance refusal.  It may well be a very wise approach for those with pre-exisiting conditions, because you will have proof from a medical professional.  So for those in this situation, it is probably well worth while seeking out those companies who insist on a medical[cooperlola][/quote] And they are (or include) ... ?

[quote]Why not spend the same number of hours e-mailing  MEPs/MPs/French Health Minister and anybody else you can think of? [/quote] Because there is a curious difference (speaking in generalities) between N. Europeans and S. Europeans. The former have apparently limitless energy when it comes to debating (especially in committee) what to do, how and when to do it, such that by the time any agreement is reached no-one has any energy left actually to do anything. The latter can't be ar**d to waste all that time deciding what is to be done but 24 hours before an event is due to start all pitch in together to get things underway. Net result, in my experience, is that both N & S achieve about the same in the end ...

EHIC cards (CEAM cards in France) are issued by the country that is responsible for paying for your health care, at least as far as E106s are concerned (dunno what the case is for E121s). While the UK pays for your health care via E106 then you should have a UK issued EHIC card (and not just any old EHIC card that you may have had before becoming resident in France but a shiny new EHIC card issued alongside your E106). That card is then valid for the UK and the rest of the UE (except France, of course). When the E106 expires, so too does the EHIC, which will need to be replaced (if possible, depending upon circumstances) by a CEAM (otherwise it's PHI). You shouldn't be combining a CEAM with an E106 (it shouldn't be valid; will you get away with it? I have no idea).

cockroach is one meaning of cafard. Another meaning is dark thoughts, hence "feeling down."

For "Equine Massage Therapist" it is almost sure that you will need to start at the Chambre des Métiers. However, before you get even that far, if you are not currently employed, then you should start at ANPE. I have discovered that there are quite a few "hand-holding" organizations* that can help get through the red-tape (and point towards grants and low-cost loans). However, you have to arrive at them via ANPE before registering your enterprise anywhere. *In Aveyron RILE & REGATE are extremely good and I think that Regate actually started life in Tarn et Garonne but your local ANPE should know what's what. The one in Rodez was brilliant (pity I'd already registered).

We've never found anywhere really good in Millau (one place wasn't bad but have forgotten the name, although I could walk there from the centre). The place that I suspect is really good (events have conspired to prevent us from trying it) is at Peyrelau (ca. 20 kms from Millau) at the start of the Gorges du Tarn - the Grand Hotel de la Muse et du Rozier  which should be open all year round (though I think closes for lunch many days  out of season). Best of luck and please report back.

Yes, it is very expensive (maybe it will get cheaper as/when/if insurance companies compete to meet the new demand). Budget €9,000 for a couple of 60 yr olds in "perfect" health (i.e. NO pre-existing conditions, no operations in last 5 years, prferably no visits to the doc in same period). You can get lower quotes but then you would be left in the deep squidgy brown stuff if either developed a chronic illness (above quote is based on €3,250 per person for realistic cover + 40% uplift) and even at €9,000 the chronic illness cover (limited to a total lifetime figure) could soon be exhausted (in some circumstances in less than a year). Sorry if that sounds tough but it sounds even tougher to those of us already here. On the other hand, if you just need a top-up, you can get a good one for about €1,500 (for the two of you).

Yes, you would also think that (apparently wanting to keep all the French horses in the stable) they would not leave the door wide open while trying to get the other European horses out ...

Yup, while we're trying to break in, thousands of French are trying to break out ... The two sides of the coin: http://www.finmonopolesecu.conscience-politique.org/ my, my, doesn't that site look familiar? and the rebuttal: http://www.securite-sociale.fr/comprendre/europe/monopolesecu/monopole.htm

[quote] Is there a 7.1% level of social contribution? [gpnoel] [/quote] There are several different rates of Social charge totalling between 7.1% and 11%. I think you will probably find that the BF rate of 7.1% refers to the 7.5% CSG rate (x95% of income = 7.1%) that may apply to certain UK pensions (even though exempt the 0.5% CRDS), hence a total of 7.1% real (v. 7.5% theoretical). But see the other thread: http://www.completefrance.com/cs/forums/1/1065219/ShowPost.aspx#1065219 It would be a bit hard to find otherwise, since the thread started out as a cost comparison for health care of CMU-PHI-self-employment and so is on the Health board. The thread soon morphed into a detailed consideration of CSG etc.

[quote]The third paragraph is interesting.[cooperlola][/quote] It would be interesting ... but for the specific reference to "citoyens français." Although I suppose it can still be considered interesting for the "5-year-rulers."

[quote]In other words, does cents only take the S if it is the very last word or number?[cat][/quote] No, not the last "word" buy yes the last number, although "number" may not be the best word to use because of: sept cents millions de chinois, or quatre-vingts millions - "millions" is not a number but a "nom commun" The rule is "les adjectifs numéraux cardinaux (un, deux, trois, cinq, douze, mille etc.) sont invariables, sauf vingt et cent, qui prennent un <<s>> s'ils sont multipliés et non suivis d'un autre adjectif numéral cardinal." [Julaud, 2004; Le petit livre de la grammaire facile] Same source points out that "euros" is the plural of "euro" and that "deux heuros" is bad pronunciation, "deux-z-euros" being correct.

[quote]like "it is" c'est  if you try to work that out from a dictionary (I would end up jumping out of the window) I know it because I have be told its that , but why?[Pads][/quote] Why? Say "ce est," now say it quicker, now try saying it quicker still ...