Logan

I am surprised by the number of posters here that expect television programmes to show the truth. They are made to entertain, nothing more. It's the same in any other form of media. Newspapers and magazines exist to entertain and make a profit for the folk behind it. Truth does not come into it. Everything is subjective and tediously politically correct. I would like to find an example of truth in modern life. People no longer speak it. Politicians et al certainly use language that avoids truthfully answering anything. Spin is king. Reality TV is anything but reality. There are only two truths in life. Death and taxes.

The State is going to push more and more of the cost burden for healthcare in France on the mutuelles. I have also been advised of more price hikes in January for mutuelles. They are also imposing 180 waiting periods for new subscribers. This is because some folk are hopping in and out of mutuelle contracts. IE: Knowing you need an expensive operation. Contract a mutuelle for a month then land them with a bill for thousands of euro. After the op. contract is cancelled. It is changing what used to be a balance of - some years you win, some years the assurance wins. In short we suffer once again because of a minority. Mutuelle costs will only keep rising. It's just more 'taxation' called something else.

[quote]We've recently bought a house in the Dordogne and hope to live there permanently within the next two years. Reasons for leaving the UK? Property prices! Our pensions and half the proceeds of our UK ...[/quote] I also live in 24 and have done for many years. You will not find much resentment among the French to the British residents. Although they are getting concerned with rising house prices and blame the incomers for it. You will also find them polite, warm and willing to make friends. For your part you should make lots of effort to speak French and embrace their culture. Leave Britain where it is and try not to bring it with you.

An old countryman's sign of a coming cold winter is the amount of holly berries that appear on the bushes in Autumn. It is supposed to be natures way of supplying more food for the birds and mammals. I noticed in my woods this morning my trees are unusually thick with berries this year. Looks bad news.

[quote]I don't think the name is Leroy, unless it is a West Indian squirrel (sorry Logan only jesting) I think that it is more likely to be of the "lérot" family that many of us know well, a loir. ...[/quote] Thank you for correcting my spelling Miki. I tried everything humane to rid my house of them but failed. I did not want to kill them and didn't feel good about it. However the noise at night drove us to overcome our reluctance. So far I have dispatched 5 of the critters!

I watch Eurosport in SW France via an old analogue box with an equally old 60cm dish tuned to the Astra 1C at 19.2E. You can also receive CNBC. Both free to air. There are also dozens of German channels and pop music. Why pay Sky?

They might not be mice but Leroy's. A sought of fruit/nut eating mammal peculiar to France. They are a bit like a small squirrel. They inhabit cavity walls, chimney's and lofts. They are nocturnal and also hibernate. They are active at the moment gathering in their winter store and are very noisy at night. If you have any sort of nut trees or oak trees you will have Leroy's. There is a special poison available at Mr Bricolage. It does work but takes a while and you need to find their cadavers otherwise you will get odours.

I came to live in France 22 years ago because it was a socialist country with traditions of equality and fraternity. It was 1992 and Thatcher's doctrine of the survival of the fittest and ******** to everyone else pervaded the land. Do you remember the 'loads of money' culture? Race riots and the poll tax. Britain was ugly and still is. In France I found space and freedom of thought in a philosophical context. I found tolerance of difference and an understanding and sympathy of what makes us human. I discovered French people have priorities for life and values that are not diluted by materialism. I learned a beautiful language and discovered among many the simple joys of fresh bread in the early morning. I have learned to love the soil the changing seasons and pastoral peace. France has provided me with everything I need and was without in Britain. When I left I had no idea what I was seeking from life. Yet I was very clear what I wanted to leave behind. France has made me whole and I intend to remain here the rest of my days.

HSBC are represented in the SW of France via Credit Commercial du Sud Quest or CCSO. (www.ccso.fr) I have been with them for 5 years and very good they are too.

[quote]Hi! I am intrigued with the last letter that said they had a way of living privately that was English and a 'put on' way of going about things publically with French friends that was different! I wou...[/quote] My post was meant to be abstract.I was writing about personal identity. Or to put it another way... who you are or how you see yourselves. Perhaps not many folk ask this question or consider it much. However, I believe it's a gateway to personal fulfilment. Do you see yourselves as British and becoming French? Or alternatively firmly British, yet living in France and remaining that way for the duration of your lives. You see I find it odd that anyone would want to fully integrate into French society and yet keep and hold on to a British or any other personal identity. It's like having your cake and eating it too.

[quote]Yes, people shouldn’t want to lose their identity, by integration I meant getting to know your French neighbours, not just the British ones, becoming familiar with the culture and the language – AND N...[/quote] The subject of personal identity or how we see ourselves is interesting. We arrive in France as immigrants totally fixed on an identity which is formed from where ever we come from. We want to integrate and be accepted in the local community. Make friends and behave in an acceptable manner within the cultural values we find. So far so good. However, after a while, a few years maybe how do we feel? Is it like loosing a religion setting aside your former identity? How many of us are or have become culturally schizophrenic. I mean living one comfortable way in private the English way if you like, and then being French in the public arena or among our French friends so we become more acceptable. I have often felt the pressure to conform to these French acceptable norms. This in the face of a more instinctive way of being and feeling uncomfortable as a result. Perhaps it's an 'age' thing but I like the identity I'm more comfortable with.

[quote]Reading these replies it has just occurred to me that in a minimum of twenty years or more there are going to be a hell of a lot of new franco/british families starting new" dynasties" here. With this...[/quote] Thinking is never dangerous Val. I only wish folk would do a bit more of it! A large chunk of France namely Aquitaine was part of England for a couple of centuries. The descendants of the English who occupied, lived and bred there must be now part of the social fabric. No doubt they would never consider themselves anything else but French. The point being that the world is a global village and it's the social conditioning which makes us who we are. It only takes a generation. The children of the current wave of émigré Brits will become French in time if they stay here long enough. However for the parents it's a different matter. Their dye is cast.

[quote]There are a proportion of people who seem want to live a British life abroad, and that includes changing the house to an English-style property and not wanting to learn the language or integrate into ...[/quote] I am interested to know what this word "integrate" actually means when used in this context. I hear it a lot from Brits who describe it as an aspiration on coming to live in France. My dictionary defines integrate as 'to be made into part of the whole.' Do emigrae Brits suppose it's possible to become French? I guess it depends on your situation and the individual but I think to become French you need to be born here or at least lived here through childhood. My point is that it is almost impossible for Brits to be anything else in France but 'Les Anglais'. The French will never accept you as anything else no matter how well you speak the language or mix socially with the locals. You can live and work here for 30 years and you will still be an English ex-patriot. I often see and hear unrealistic expectations from British immigrants here. After all if the roles were reversed and the French moved to the UK would they ever be regarded as anything else but French? It's just the way it is.

In this life we are all very diverse in our opinions and aspirations. Who is the arbiter of what is good or bad taste? It largely depends on your own values how you see things. A wood fire is fine for you and me but we are not all the same. It is possible to live a certain kind of life in France and not speak the language. Again it depends of how you want to live and how you are fixed financially. It's possible to live a life in France completely separate from the French if that's what suits you. This in my opinion is why France is a great country in which to live. You can do your own thing and ignore the rest. Conformity is a matter of choice.

Thank you Owen for that reply and I appreciate that what you say is probably correct. However I have recently had a private communication as a result of my posting which illuminates the dark corridors of French double standards. If you are a Non-European with a desire to reside in France but not to work in France then you can opt not to enter the French health service system. You simply have to declare a none dependency on the state for Medicare. i.e.. produce proof that you are covered by a private healthcare policy and sign a declaration that you are not dependent on the state for healthcare.This done you do not have the obligation to pay 8% of your gross income to the state or pay the excessive mutuelle charges for 400% cover. I have contacted a number of Medicare companies. I can obtain a policy to cover all my needs at around 40% less than the costs of being in the French system/mutuelle. The crux of this is. If non-Europeans are allowed such an exception why not others? I am seeking further clarification. Watch this space.

I now understand that the EU have plans in the pipeline to change the rules relating to E111 use within Europe. The E111 is to moving to credit card type format with a chip including your personal information and entitlement. In France this is to be included within the Carte Vitale. In future we will all be able to receive emergency and routine medical care within any member state for up to 6 months per year via this new E111. Costs will be based on the regime of the particular country. eg. UK, Spain - free, France 30% top up required. If you go to the link below it explains rather well the thinking behind the plans. Common sense seems to be prevailing at last in the EU. http://europa.eu.int/rapid/pressReleasesAction.do?reference=IP/04/508&format=HTML&aged=0&language=EN&guiLanguage

[quote]I think I understand what Logan is trying to say and sympathise to some extent. Assume you are domiciled in France but your work commitments require you to travel extensively outside the country, inc...[/quote] Exactly MWJ. Perhaps I didn't make my reference to Spain very clear. If you go to live in Spain as a resident. It is not compulsory to pay into the Spanish NHS. You can opt to take out private health care with Sanitas for example. The costs are reasonable. In doing that you can then keep your NHS status in UK (not absolutely legal because entitlement is based on residence)or extend your Sanitas policy to cover you privately whilst in UK. However this is not possible in France because you are legally obliged to join the system and by default have a decent top up. You loose automatically therefore your rights in UK and have to pay for anything except emergency treatment. So you pay or take another private policy to cover you in UK. I appreciate that most folk do not live for a few months each year in either country but quite a number do. The whole point of this thread is by making it obligatory to be in the French system it removes personal choice and that to me is unaceptable in a democratic society. I believe this is the reason so may Brits rely on form E111 for medicare in France when they are actually residents. They don't want to give up their NHS status in UK and who can blame them. I hope I have now made my point a little clearer folks!

[quote]In an ideal world maybe everyone in the world would be entitled to free health care anywhere in the world but this is not an ideal world I dont see the great difficulty you are resident in France yo...[/quote] I am not personalising this. I am highlighting a flaw in the rules because France will not allow a resident to opt out of the state healthcare system and go private. A one size to fit all does not work. Is this not often the case in France and one of the irritations we have to live with? If you move between these two countries (France & UK) or France and anywhere else, it is not possible to remain within the law and get healthcare as a routine in another state.(Emergencies accepted).The French system does not allow for it. As an example:- Spain and UK is different. There is no bar on opting out of the state system. You can go private very economically and keep your NHS status in UK. All routine medical care is covered and then emergencies by E111. Why does France not do the same? This is my point and part of the subject of the thread.

[quote]I don't see how being a member of the French sytem disqualifies you from treatment in the UK , any more than being a member of the NHS disqualifies you from treatment in France. You pay into the sys...[/quote] The problem is if you often move between countries and stay for a few months in each then routine treatment is not allowed under the current rules. You need to have private insurance and that takes us back to the original subject. I appreciate that most folk may not live that. However if you do try to stay within the rules in theory you will need private for the UK and be in the French system as well. I would just like to pay for one and be covered in both. Not possible.

I would like to thank those contributors to this thread who have made some interesting and constructive posts. I ignore the disingenuous attitudes of a couple who seem unable to grasp my point. Leaving the state system in France seems not to be an option. The costs of healthcare public or private are fairly similar when I compare my quotes from private organisations. There is therefore little financial incentive to not be part of the system. However being in the system here does disqualify you from the NHS in UK apart from emergency treatment by form E111 and that is a consideration.Unfortunately there is no legal halfway house.

[quote]I thinkthat you have a choice,play by the rules or return to the uk!Sounds harsh may be it is,but these rules are the same for everybody.[/quote] Thank you Mysfloss for your completely useless comment to this debate. I am seeking new ideas for a way to provide legal healthcare in France at a more economic cost. In my experience things are seldom black and white in France there are always shades of grey. The French know what they are. We Brits tend to accept the first thing we are told. Often I feel it's the last thing we are told which usually works best.

[quote]As others have said you cannot opt out of the UK NI so why think that you can opt out of the French system You pay 8% of your income after deducting an allowance of approx 6000euros then you can eith...[/quote] If you are not employed in UK eg: retired, private income etc. Then you have a choice to either pay class C NI contributions or not. Entitlement to National Health Service treatment is based on residence only not contributions.It is perfectly possible to opt out of paying NI. Only your state pension will be effected. I dislike the fact that in France you do not have a choice. I accept if it is the law then you have to comply but like all Frenchman I'm looking for a loophole!

I have been advised elsewhere on this forum that it is not possible to live in France and opt out of the state healthcare system and go 100% private. BUPA for example have tailor made contracts for European residents. Can anyone advise if this is correct? Seems a little draconian what happened to freedom of choice? It costs 8% of your gross income to be in the state system plus the cost of a 400% mutuelle. Going private competes on costs, is more flexible and less complicated.

All you say is correct in a perfect world. However having entered the French system I am quite suprised to learn how expensive and complicated the required 30% top up insurance is. I have been advised that a 400% mutuelle is the only guarantee of cost free healthcare in France. For a retired couple the costs are quite substantial and almost the same as a full private healthcare policy in UK. I am now considering coming out of the French system and simply going private with a european cover private health contract. At least it's less complicated.

This is a very relevant post since I am about to sign up a contract with them for long term health care. They are a French company based in Marseille and offer very good terms for complementary insurance. They specialise in health insurance for ex-pats in France. Contact details:- 04 94 40 31 45 fax: 04 94 40 31 97 e mail: [email protected] The have English speaking staff and seemed geared up for none French speakers. Have anyone had any experience with this company? Feedback most welcome after all we are blind and trusting as to these companies bona fides.