Logan

Very interesting to see where the offical wealth of the country resides. Of course declared income has no real relationship to actual or real income. Most French folks lie through their teeth on 'le Declaration Preremplie'.

The problem people have with politics is understanding that like or not it is a fundamental force in our lives. Politics influences everything we do and can do. It is directly a force in our future and shapes and moulds society and its cultural values. In our western democracies we have the luxury of being able to ignore politics if we choose because our ancestor’s politics brought us relative social and economic stability. I believe we all have a responsibility to continue to improve our societies for the benefit of others through democratic political change. We do it through the effort of understanding the issues and voting. The people of France have done just that. I believe they made the right choice to give France a better future. There is much work to be done. This election highlighted an admission for the first time that the social model of French society has failed it's people. When politics fails everyone suffers. Political change brings hope and expectation. M. Sarkozy will now have to deliver. I personally believe he has the talent and ability to succeed. 

I watched the debate in a hotel bar whilst travelling in Provence. I was very interested to see the reaction of my fellow guests and locals to the candidates. Most of them thought Sarkozy showed statesman like qualities and won the argument hands down. There was almost unanimous derision for Royal who in my own opinion appeared strident and rather nasty under pressure. Mrs T often appeared like that until she was coached later in her term of office by media people in the art of communication. Rural Provence where I was staying is predominantly Le Pen and right of centre territory. Perhaps a certain bias should be allowed for. They are also a little chauvinist. However I think their views were not untypical of rural France generally.  What matters is the little card that is placed in the petite envelope on Sunday, nothing more. My fear is in the privacy of the voting booth the average Frenchman will stand back from the threat of political and social change. I believe Royal will win for this and no other reason.   

[quote user="cooperlola"]In your opinion.[/quote] Well yes. Most of the posts on this thread are subjective. It’s the nature of the beast. If I said constantly after every statement “in my opinion” would it not be very tedious? A post is an opinion. There should be no further need for clarification…. err.. in my opinion. I think this thread has shown how narrow and inward looking most of our horizons really are. I  personally really see no difference in the peoples of the world. For me the planet is a global village. I hate barriers and frontiers. They are erected by vested interest groups to halt human development and progress. They are also there to imprison a population in an ideology. Be it sophisticated or primitive. Likewise economic and social barriers are there for a similar effect. That is the protection of a status quo and a system of belief for the benefit of a few and the subjugation of the majority. If freedom is to mean anything at all the rejection of barriers is a first step. Distinctions of nationality, colour, race and religion needs to become meaningless. I feel the EU is a brave attempt to at least try and bring about that change for perhaps more enlightened future generations. We Europeans are actually united in a shared culture of religion and human values. We have to begin somewhere to tear down these barriers that divide.  I am often accused in these forum posts of idealism or ‘rose coloured views’. Well that maybe so but I would rather be optimistic about the future development of our societies than any of the alternatives. So what on earth does it matter if your small French village is populated by British, Hollandaise, Irish or folks from Papua New Guinea? Cultural diversity is good for you. Too much French can make you very inward and insular. Embrace the changes and help to make a brave new world!![:D]  

[quote user="chessfou"][quote]In some successful countries such as the USA regulation is relatively light.[Logan][/quote] Ha, ha, ha. This thread was getting a bit serious but that brightened it up. Have you ever tried importing stuff into the USA? Have you ever incorporated a business in the USA? I have and I reckon the US bureaucrats could teach the guys in Mumbai a thing or two (let alone here in France) about how to make life impossible ("Catch 22" is, after all, an Americanism) and that was all before the advent of Sarbanes-Oxley! [/quote] Yes I can answer affirmative to all your questions. You are still wrong.

Well I hope you will forgive me TriezVents but you sound very downbeat about life. I am sure you are personally much more optimistic than your words. I believe the market provides us all with realistic optimism and hope that our futures can be brighter and better. Often, I and people who share my particular political point of view are accused of not caring about others. Not true. In fact in my youth at Uni. I was a dedicated Marxist. I had a tutor who was dismissed from Berkley CA. for being too extreme. I thought he was the bee’s knees. I actually do care about ordinary folk. As a concequence I believe their best hope for a more prosperous and fulfilled life is through market forces. Not with regulation, restrictive practice, protectionism and removal of incentive.  Now let’s not repeat all that again. We will have to agree to differ now. If Sarkozy wins the election then we can come back in five years time and see if France is better or worse. French villages will be overrun with jonnie foreigners of all shapes and creeds. We will all have an Indian take away in the local square. The Maire will come from Birmingham. The French will have all moved to England and the Maghreb will become a French colony once more under Le Pen. Now that’s optimistic ne l’est pas?[:)]

And why are most jobs in the service sector in France reserved for French nationals, why don't the French recognize others' qualifications? Because of overbearing government regulation and protectionism. The EU allows opt - out clauses. There is no Utopia but I know that I like some environments better than others and for as long as I am fortunate enough to have a choice, I will try to exercise it. That's called exercise of market preference.

Really TreizeVents, "history of the world". I don’t think so. In these brief exchanges in forum posts generalisation is generally accepted in order to briefly communicate a point. If I were to write a history of the world or a history of the market, firstly it would be very boring and secondly it would run to several volumes. Of course markets are regulated by governments; of course government benefits from markets. I didn't think I needed to point out the blindingly obvious. In some successful countries such as the USA regulation is relatively light. In France and Germany it’s over the top in my opinion. You suggested the housing market in France should be regulated more than it currently is. In your view this would create more social equality. Did I not understand your point correctly? I disagree fundamentally if that’s what you think. Lighter regulation of markets creates increased prosperity. That battle has been won in all but a few countries. Globalisation of trade means greater competition. To compete in world markets you need less regulation, restrictive practices and a flexible labour market. The world has moved on and no one can buck the dynamics. The only route in my opinion to greater social equality is through hard work and motivation in a free market.  

I don't accept that a 'have' and 'have not' situation is reasonable. Please explain how you would create incentive without that rational? People need motivation to get them out of bed in the morning.

You cannot control the free market. Or as one famous lady once said, “If you try and buck the market then the market will buck you”. The market economy is the life blood of the world and you tinker with it at your peril. It’s been tried before and always with disastrous results. To advance yourself materially and provide some financial security you need the market. Without the market we all stagnate. The market rewards those in society who are prepared in their lives to make personal effort and take risks. If you regulate markets you remove individual incentive, inventive creativity and socio- economic progress. I agree that some negative aspects of the market should have some light controls. However I believe that in the end the market regulates itself through simple supply and demand. The rising housing market provides ordinary working people with a future and an opportunity for life enhancement beyond that of their ancestors. In life there will always be winners and losers. The idea that governments should constantly meddle in the free market and in direct consequence our lives, for me is unacceptable and wrong.    

The European project or European Community was originally a brave political idea and designed principally to bring the peoples of Europe closer together and prevent another European war. That project is ongoing, active, alive and still a good idea despite all it's predictable problems. It's also has a long term vision which subsequent generations will evolve. Historical conflicts between close European neighbours of course still remain a block to progress in the minds of some. I believe such attitudes will not prevent the project moving forward which I believe now is unstoppable. Petty arguments about English, French, German, Irish moving to each others countries and living there belong in a past era when their tanks were on our lawns. Heavens, lets all try and move on a bit. Cultural diversity is everywhere if you look for it.

Judging from the replies to this rather silly post the principle of being European seems to have been ignored. Surely you can move on now from being little Englanders and see the world in broader prospective. We are all Europeans by race and culture and part of a global village. What on earth does anything else matter? Do you consider a Yorkshire man different from someone from Cornwall or a Welshman versus a Scotsman? I accept the French have some mild prejudice to the changing demography of nationality in their own backyard. However for the British to protest about too many non French moving to France is just inverted snobbery and not very attractive.

I am in agreement with the posters that the French property market is poised for resurgence. I am a market watcher/investor in Europe. I try to spot trends. Political and social change in France is coming soon, partly through globalisation but principally because the French are bored with the political staus quo. What will likely follow in my opinion is a much improved economic business climate in France. It's really not that difficult to work out. Stagnation has a limited appeal even to the left. There will be difficulties along the way, pain for some but if you know France well you will see the need for change is everywhere. Those of us who have invested heavily in France many years ago are quietly waiting for a return. Buy now whilst stocks last!

You are getting close to an aspect of French culture not often discussed. The institutionalised collective. Individuals, children or adults don't often think outside the box and are not encouraged too. Expression of opinion and ideas are generally voiced by groups, structures or the hierarchy. Perhaps it goes all the way back to the revolution where individual expression and freedom of thought usually resulted in getting your head chopped off. I do find this aspect of life in France a bit stifling. The French protest at the drop of a hat as a structure or group but dissent is always very staged. Formality and deference is another symptom of institutionalism. There is a lack of spontaneity and warmth in greetings. A French business meeting with a number of participant employees is a bit like knitting fog where input and ideas never happen and everyone defers to the person higher up the scale.   

Of course I was writing in general terms about the market. You will always be able to find examples that buck the trend for a variety of reasons. If I were you I would take the next Eurostar and snap it up. I think the comment about the Daily Mail readership refers to a type of reactionary stereotype of which I am sure you are not one Roseysan.[:D]

fulfilling their good republican duty and give the keys to Sarko I do hope so. France needs change, a good dose of capitalist competition, a freed up jobs market, less tax, red tape and union power. Who else is offering that? Bayrou?[:'(] He represents the same stade old nonesense which is long out of date. Read this for more incisive analysis. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/rosemary_righter//article1629499.ece?Submitted=true

[quote user="sclarke2208"] Anyone wishing to relocate to the North of France can read an article in todays Daily Mail promoting all that is good about Pas de Calais and the fact that Eurostar starts its new run in November this year. I guess I had better hurry up and get my house over there (been looking for 6 months at properties that are very affordable) and I don't want to see a huge price hike. roseysan [/quote] You had better be quick. Immos in the region are selling out and also predicting a boom. Prices are already rising. Those who bought a few years ago in the Pas de Calais have done well. An annual season ticket from Lille or Paris to London will cost less than you think. SNCF is not Virgin Trains. Very different structures.

Next year the highspeed rail link to the channel tunnel will open. St Pancras to the centre of Lille will take only 1 hour. I see boom times ahead for property in Northern France within daily commuting distance to London. If you compare property prices in SE Kent to NE France the difference is considerable. Quality of life with a London income, must be a winning combination.[:D]

[quote user="Prasutagus"] As a second home owner in France, hoping to retire there eventually, I have a question for anyone who has had time to study the candidates in the forthcoming election. Is there any potential new president who may not be too happy about so many Brits moving to, or owning property in France? Conversely, is there anyone amongst them who will positively embrace the fact we love France so much?  (Apologies if this has been asked/discussed before. I have checked, but cannot find anything) [/quote] Le Pen dislikes non-French, so British fit that description. Sarko admires the British and capitalist work ethics. Royal is wet and likes Tony Blair. The rest don't matter. 

The subject of superficial friendliness has been described very well in some posts here. I believe that it's common in almost every culture in the world and not peculiar to France. Humans find it to easy to be superficial, anything else means commitment, effort and giving something of yourself. Most of us do not have the time or the inclination to move into that stage of a relationship. It creates to many difficulties. I suppose it comes down to our expectations. Or perhaps we seek too much from very little. It is a mistake to blame a country for such things. You will find it everywhere you go. As I have often written on this forum, fundamentally life is very much the same in any country or place. What changes is your own personal view of it.

All hail the Mods.[:D]

[quote user="Sprogster"] Logan, if you are correct and British house prices fall 10 to 15% there will be a likely knock on effect for the sectors of the French provincial housing market that relies more on British than French buyers. The turning point for the £ will not be when Euro interest rates are higher, but when the forex market perceives £ interest rates have peaked and the next likely move is downwards. [/quote] Yes as UK interest come down so will the Pound in proportion. As I said UK rates may fall below those of Euroland. I would then expect to see the Euro trade around 70 to 72p to the Pound. UK property buyers in France represent only a small proportion of the whole. It may have a small effect on certain types of property favoured by Brits but in general terms I don't expect much of a downturn. However this does not apply in Spain where the property market is dependent on UK buyers. I see the outlook there as dire.

Smuger wrote:- else, that keeps you intellectually and physically challenged Thirdly, the French are not very interesting. In fact they are quite miserable. You will find loads of French ‘professional’ French folk who will lament the dearth of work-ethic, etc. amongst their compatriots – but who will be as incompetent and idle as your worst English slackers. You can wax lyrical about the French countryside, cassoulet, quaint local customs (eg. force feeding geese to make make foie gras) and dubious (but cheap) wine but after a couple of weeks you’ll be yearning for a Tesco and decent vegetables (cabbage and potatoes, mostly). And remember you can get as much as you want of the Consider seriously your own needs and requirements. If you regard moving to France as a way of resolving unsuccessful UK business, financial or personal relationships, you are doomed to failure. A failure in the UK (or anywhere else) definitely means a failure in France. Secondly, forget the oft quoted “you must learn French asap”.  Yes, it’s useful but it’s not the key to living in France. You’ll never get your French up enough to talk fluently and eloquently as you would (hopefully) in your own native language, unless you marry a French person or have a viable business in France. You will need a raison d’etre for living in France. Fishing, golf, wine-making, or something French countryside by going on holiday, rather than living there. It ain’t cheaper than the UK in the long run. Housing is cheap but cost of purchase, maintenance, insurance, heating oil, electricity, taxes habitation and foncieres is way high. And if you earn decent money they’ll take it away in tax. And finally take, with a pinch of salt, those stories of idyllic bucolia that the us Brits are so keen to promulgate. Sometimes folk can over-egg their puddings. This list above written by Smuger is a good description of life in France. It's also a shorthand description of life anywhere else. France is just one more country which may or may not suit the individual. I often wonder why folks who move to France think that things will be very much different from the place they originated from. Life is pretty much the same anywhere unless you go to live in the Sahara or Bagdad. It is usually economics which influences us the most. As you age then healthcare and security come to the fore. I believe Europe is very samey and the gulf between life in France and life anywhere within Europe has a Nats breath of a difference.

The Pound is unlikely to weaken against the Euro until interest rates in UK fall below that of Euroland. Given the higher inflation rates in UK in comparison to Europe that's an unlikely senario at least for the short to middle term. I believe house prices in France will remain stable with modest increases in the same term. Reason - as others have said here supply is not vastly out of sink with demand as in Spain for example. Also French domestic property is not over priced compared to the rest of Europe. It's for this reason that I believe the UK property market is poised for a fall of between 10 to 15% in the medium term. It will only take a small slowdown to increase supply and reduce demand. The UK property market is over priced and in my view unsustainable given weak market conditions.

There is another factor in the pending collapse of the Spanish Costa property market that nobody talks about. CRIME. It's out of control. Spain has become quite a dangerous place to live due to large amounts of eastern European gangsters and drug pedlars arriving on the coasts. There are rich pickings among the relatively well off northern Europeans and an incompetent, badly trained police force. Folks realise that after they have moved, eventually they need to sell and cannot. They then have a vested interest in keeping quiet about realities.