Purchasing Process

[Angelite]

We went over to France earlier this year, and found a delightful cottage . 

We said to the Immo we would be using a Notaire in the UK, but he told us the local Notaire would provide a bi-lingual Compromis and we didn't need a UK one. In fact, certain sections were summarised into English.  The one Clause Suspensive we had asked for (subject to satisfactory survey) was not included, and several clauses said reports etc would be forwarded once we had returned the signed Compromis.  I thought the idea when buying is to find out all the facts before signing anything (and particularly parting with money!).  So I requested the copy of the survey we had been promised with the Compromis.  This was done by e-mail, and parts of the Diagnostic was unreadable, due to pop-ups obscuring the page, and when we got rid of the pop-ups, the page disappeared as well. We knew there was a certain amount of work to be done, but the survey then showed there was more than we had allowed for in our budget.

We had always understood that the legal process in Frances takes three or four months.  One of the clauses stated "This Act must be settled at the latest by .. eight weeks hence".  How could we assure on a point out of our control?

Because of these doubts, coupled with the plunging pound, we decided not to go ahead with the purchase, but what we are wondering, is this the norm?  Would we have been better using a UK Notaire?

[AnOther]

It does all sound a little "irregular" so I think you've made a wise choice to withdraw.

It is normal to sign the compromis immediately and your safety net is the suspensive's clauses you have both agreed on so it's critical to get those right, moreso if you not on the spot. They cannot force you to complete in 8 weeks unless you specifically agreed to it in the Compromis. You can complete at any time in the future, be it 8 weeks or 8 months, again it's what you agree with your seller in the Compromis.

As for using a Notaire in the UK, it's perfectly possible however if you do feel you need a second Notaire involved it might be better to find one in France who speaks English. There will be no additional cost to you as both will share the fee. There is a web site somewhere which someone else may be able to point tyou to.

The process does normally take around 3 months but that is for an uncomplicated straight forward deal. There are many things which can extend this of course such as mortgage or planning applications, survey problems etc. etc. (and BTW not saying you shouldn't get a survey done but it is not the norm in France and I suspect 90% which are done are for/by expats).

Good luck.

[Breton Networks]

[quote user="Angelite"]We said to the Immo we would be using a Notaire in the UK, [/quote]

Why would you want to use a Notaire in the UK ? (is there such a thing ?)

The contact is in France & the language is French

I hope I'm not telling you how to suck eggs, but a Notaire is a government employee & looks after both sides so by using different Notairs you will introduce mail delays into the transaction, at the very least.

[quote]and several clauses said reports etc would be forwarded once we had returned the signed Compromis.  I thought the idea when buying is to find out all the facts before signing anything (and particularly parting with money!).[/quote]

Not in France, the seller only obtains (& pays for) a survey when a firm offer is made.

[quote] So I requested the copy of the survey we had been promised with the Compromis.  This was done by e-mail, and parts of the Diagnostic was unreadable, due to pop-ups obscuring the page, and when we got rid of the pop-ups, the page disappeared as well. [/quote]

That sounds as if you have a problem with your computer.

[quote]We had always understood that the legal process in Frances takes three or four months.One of the clauses stated "This Act must be settled at the latest by .. eight weeks hence".  [/quote]

Depends upon many factors but our purchase went through in less than 5 weeks. & the 8 weeks would apply to the seller as well.

[quote]How could we assure on a point out of our control?[/quote]

I understand the biggest delay can be getting the sellers 'interested parties' signatures & presumably the Notaire had done some work to ensure that there wouldn't be a delay in that.

[quote]but what we are wondering, is this the norm? [/quote]

Yes, if there is a norm.

[quote]Would we have been better using a UK Notaire?[/quote]

See above, you would probably be better off with a good translator.

You must remember the French system is very different from the UK, a buyer can't mess the seller around in France like they can in the UK (Bitter about the last couple of house sales, moi ?)

[cooperlola]

This is what Ernie is referring to:

http://www.notaires.fr/notaires/annuaire.nsf/F_RN_RECH_PUB?OpenForm&comLangue=FR

The subject of whether or not to seek an English legal expert specialising in French property sales has been discussed at length elsewhere on here, and all have their own ideas and experiences.

To my mind, you need to be here - even if it means taking a couple of weeks off work - to do the paperwork.  I would never have signed the compromis without being in front of it, and the people who had drawn it up. There is no substitute for doing these things in person for what is a major - probably one of the biggest you've ever made - purchase.  If it is evident to the Notaire that you do not understand French, then no contracts can be signed without a translator available, who has to countersign the documents.  I think backing out was probably wise, but if you try it again, I for one would advise a) that you find an English speaking Notaire should your language skills not be up to it and b) that you don't do any contract signing at arms length.  But - as I say - there are a hundred (probably more) different opinions out there!

[Angelite]

Thank you everyone for your advice.  This experience was a steep learning curve for me.  Your point about signing in person with a translator present, Cooperlola, would make us feel much more secure about the whole matter. 

When we were negotiating a price with the Immo, who was British, he said we could save money (and therefore pay more for the property) if we just used a local  Notaire who spoke English.  We said we would find one, but he said, no need, I know a Notaire who speaks English and will present bi-lingual documents.  However,when we had returned to the UK he recommended using the Vendors' Notaire, who would give the same service, but only parts were translated, and the accompanying e-mails were all in French. 

So next time, definitely our own local Notaire and translator.

 

[cooperlola]

There's nothing wrong with using the purchaser's Notaire, and it is in fact standard practice here in many cases, but the language thing is paramount, imo.  Thus if the purchaser's Notaire is English speaking, then there should be no real problems.  The difficulty lies in taking advice on legal matters from an immo' based in the UK - who may just want the easy life (and may not offer you a choice of properties such as you'd get if you just trawled the immos and notaires in the area you've chosen.)

Having been once bitten like this, the thing to take away is that you're unlikely to make the same mistakes again (although you'll make other ones - everybody does!!)