ing direct

[krusty]

We have savings with ing direct uk , we now live in france do we have to notify them ? what are the consequences if we dont ?

[Juswundrin]

The T&C state that the account is for UK residents only, so yes, you theoretically have to inform them.

I would have thought that if you didn't, and they found out, they'd do nothing more than close your account. Assuming all income is declared, you're not breaking the law, just their rules.

(You will need a UK address, though; if any mail is returned they put a block on the account until you phone them).

[Cassis]

It's a condition of ING that you MUST be resident in the country where your account is registered - as Juswundrin says.  You should close it when you leave the UK.  Shame, because UK interest rates are higher than the French ING rates.  Here's an extract from their Legal section:

15        Law

This agreement is governed by the laws of

England and Wales. The courts of England and Wales will deal with any

claim, dispute or difference arising from this agreement. However, if

you live in Scotland or Northern Ireland, the courts of Scotland or

Northern Ireland may deal with them.

 

ING

Direct savings account terms and conditions

Eligible customers

Our savings accounts are available to people aged 18 or over who are

'ordinarily resident' (that is, who normally live) in the UK (not

including the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man) for tax purposes and

have a personal UK bank or building society current account with a

cheque book and direct debit facility.

I would think that if you left the UK and failed in your duty to tell them of your change of address, this would be regarded as fraudulent.  Don't do it!

[Sunday Driver]

What are the consequences of not telling your bank that you have moved?

Your customer record will be incorrect, so they won't know where you are. 

If for any reason they query a withdrawal request, they won't be able to contact you for confirmation.  This may cause them to freeze the account pending further investigation.

Mail will continue to go to your old address.  That means the present occupier may have access to security information that the bank sends out to you.   If you incur any fraudulent loss through this, then you could be held liable and you might not receive compensation.  Bank mail could also be used for identity theft.

Why on earth would you not want to notify them?

 

[krusty]

The account details go to my mums address , so we still have a UK address for corespondance .

ING are internet based so it is very easy to continue using the account.

We do not speak French so changing to ING France would be hard for us.

[Benjamin]

As the previous posters say you are operating outside the terms and conditions of the account you currently  have. However all is not gloom and despondency.

 

If you like ING then try www.ingdirecr.fr or look  at moving your savings offshore which you can legally do and still comply with  European and French tax laws. You should look at the European Savings Directive for current regulations.

Benjamin

[Llwyncelyn]

This has been covered many times before.  However your Mum's address is not your address you are ordinarily resident here in France. Address for correspondence is not your ordinary address.  Unfortunately no two ways about it.

Whilst I am not saying that you would wish to conceal information but if you are taking advantage of UK based interest rates when the T's and C's say you must be ordinarily resident to do so then in theory you are in breach of your contract with ING.  For breach you could read something more serious but I do not think it would come to that.

I say this as a lawyer and that means nothing but what does mean a lot is your mind or to be absolutely to the point your state of mind in that if you are obtaining UK interest rates but you know that to do so you have to be resident there then you are obtaining an advantage and to which you are not entitled.

On this point we have investments in the UK with various organisations banks and others and whilst they deduct tax at source and then I have to reclaim from HM Customs and Revenue they all know that we are resident in France for our address in France appears on the documents.

What is the advantage of ING is it superior interest rates?

This to be blunt may be something or nothing

[Sunday Driver]

I suspect it's less a case of Krusty deliberately circumventing the terms and conditions of his account, but more likely simple inertia.  He can't easily explore any alternative savings options available to him now he's living in France because he doesn't speak french.

By the way, welcome to the forum.

[Cassis]

Yes, Llwyncelyn, ING UK rates are higher than ING France.

Krusty, if you either don't want to know the facts or are unwilling act on them, why do you ask the question in the first place?

[Benjamin]

There was obviously a cross over of postings here so apologies if I assumed you spoke French.

Try going to www.moneyfacts.co.uk/offshore if you want UK type savings interest rates.

Within current European and French tax laws there is nothing illegal in having an offshore savings account.

Benjamin

[krusty]

Thanks for all the advise everyone , and thanks for the welcome SD.

I do want to know the right thing to do , thats why I asked the question , as a new commer to the board and to France.

We have a Britline account and although it claims to be for Brits when you log on most of it is French , hence the reason why I wish to stay with English language banking.

I know the answer is to learn French but not easy when you never had it at school  and are getting on in years.

Are "get out of jail free cards" valid in France or should I bin them ? (joke)

[Cassis]

If you want a similar return to what you're getting on your UK ING account then I would forget ING France - you'll get a better rate of return in an offshore account, as was mentioned.  If you want to borrow money it's really cheap over here, though!  Better to be in debt than in credit, it seems!

All the best.

[suein56]

Hi Krusty

If you log onto Ing Direct and tell them you live in France they will automatically then close your account[s] and return the money to the original source account you used when you opened the account. To avoid this happening it might be better to look at off-shore accounts, open one and then transfer your savings to the new account, then close the Ing account. For example Bradford and Bingley IOM are offering 5.1% til 31 March 2007 on their e-access account and Nationwide IOM are offering 4.7% on their tracker account - so it is worth making the effort.

There is no problem with opening an off-shore account - it is just as easy as opening any other account anywhere in  these days of anti-moneylaundering watchfulness. Off-shore is no longer for very rich ex-pats - it is for anyone with savings who happens not to live in the UK.

Sue

[Cassis]

That's about twice what you'll get in an ING Livret Epargne Orange account.  Mind, if you're not risk averse there's always the stock markets [Www].

[suein56]

[quote user="Cassis"]  If you want to borrow money it's really cheap over here, though!  Better to be in debt than in credit, it seems!
[/quote]

I think this could become as much a problem here as it is in the UK.

We were at an impromptu dinner the other night - asked to aperos, stayed to eat - and the French couples there were really very concerned about the ease with which credit can now be obtained in France. TU always used to say that it was really hard to get any credit in France as lending was so strictly controlled, but that all seems to have gone out of the window recently and folks here are finding it difficult to see the value of the change. I said that I thought that France seemed to be following the way of UK in this as it was soo easy to borrow money in the UK and then, perhaps, some people would have problems paying it back. There were nods of agreement. I would be sorry to see the same level of debt per person here that exists in the UK.

Sue

[Cassis]

They'd have to have massive mortgages like the UK to get to that level of debt - so we need a property boom first.  [+o(]

[suein56]

Where we live property prices are high and, in general, young couples already have large mortgages relative to the salaries they earn - this is the worrying aspect. Just as in the UK parents here do their bit and help their offspring onto the property ladder but it is then all the other stuff - the ever-changing technology re PCs or laptops, TV, audio equipment etc - all the must-haves of  modern living. Also my OH and I were used to seeing very ancient cars on the road when we used to come on holiday but now the new-car bug seems to have caught on here too with just about everyone - young and old. I have a 10 year old car and I love it and have no intention of changing it yet - but then I think I might be trying to be an ageing hippy.

Sue

[Benjamin]

Sue

We spent a very happy year (92/93) at Penestin sur Mer not far from La Roche Bernard. What you're describing there is nothing like the situation was back then.

We got to know old Jean and his wife (both in their seventies) who lived in a small two roomed house down the lane. They'd raised nine children in those two rooms and the furthest Jean had ever been was Vannes. His wife never had.

But then again we've seen DIY sheds which you never saw then and ready made sandwiches in supermarkets. It's progress to a degree but if the debt spiral catches on like the UK they'll all be the worse for it.

Benjamin

ps we're following one another around tonight

[krusty]

Just been reading the small print for opening a Bradford & Bingley offhore account they want copies of utility or bank statements in English , how if you live in France ?

[suein56]

Well we have a French joint account and for bbi we used a French bank statement 'certified' in French  [although B&B said they required certification in English] by the local notaire whose certification was in French as he speaks no English, though he understands some if pressed. 

Our utility bills were certainly French as we have no UK property - this did not seem to pose a problem. You can only do what you can do, you cannot do the impossible.

Sue

 

[suein56]

[quote user="Benjamin"]Sue

We spent a very happy year (92/93) at Penestin sur Mer not far from La Roche Bernard. What you're describing there is nothing like the situation was back then.

*** yes, I would agree with that - a lot has changed and so very quickly it takes my breath away sometimes. We looked around that area when we arrived - some splendid scenery.***

ps we're following one another around tonight

***Just one of those nights it seems!!***

Sue

[/quote]

[Juswundrin]

"Just been reading the small print for opening a Bradford & Bingley offhore account they want copies of utility or bank statements in English , how if you live in France ?"

They told me: "If you are opening the account under your French address then a french utility bill will suffice - providing it confirms your residential address."

(I assume they mean "French language utility bill")

Hope that helps.

[krusty]

Thanks you two for the info on B&B , I will try them.

[Christine Animal]

Ing Direct France seem to be offering 5.5% for the first three months on up to € 50,000.

http://www.ingdirect.fr/

 

[Cassis]

Hi Christine

Yes, ING do this a lot - and once you're with them they will tell you 'give us more dosh before the end of month x and we'll give you a higher rate for a couple of months'.  I have been thinking of opening one account in my name and another in Jude's and swapping between them to take advantage of these short-term tempters!  They do it about twice a year.