Tax Return

[BluegrassFreak]

Having read recent posts regarding "Contribution Sociales", and having  received a request for payment of this, I realized I had mistakenly entered our Private and State Pension amounts in box TL of the tax return. After visiting my local tax office they also pointed out that I had entered our state pensions in the wrong place, ie in part 1 of  Form 2047 and that these should have been entered in Part VII of this Form.

Their explanation seemed clear to me until I then actually came to fill in Forms 2047 and 2042 and then I became quite confused!

Perhaps someone could kindly guide me on the following questions. (I receive a Private Pension and a State Pension, and my Wife also receives a State Pension)

1. Form 2047. Do I put my private pension Only in Part 1 under Pension Retraites Rentes ?

2. Form 2047 Part VII. Do I put our State pensions here individually or put them in as a Joint  figure? If seperately, do  I indicate under "Le Beneficiare" as "Mois"  and "Conjoint"  ?

3. Form 2047 Part VIII.  Salaires, Pensions, Rentes etc.  Do I enter any figures in this box for tansferance to Box TL ? Our Form E121 is with CPAM and registered in the UK. We also have our Cart Vitale.

4. Regarding Form 2042. Do I enter the Total of my Private Pension and my State Pension in Box AS?  if not, where do I enter them individually ?

5. Form 2042. Do I enter our joint State Pesnions Total in Box TI?

6. Form  2042. Do I leave Box TL blank ?  ( this will probably be answered in response to my question regarding Part VIII on Form 2047)

I have researched many posts to try and get a clear answer to these questions, but could not find an example of the case when someone receives both a private pension and State Pensions.

Any assistance would be gratefully received. (I'm running out of Headex Extra !)

[Sunday Driver]

Don't beat yourself up over this - it's much simpler than you think. 

Why not make it easy on yourself and fill in your next tax declaration on-line.

Logon to the impots website, set up your user account (ID is your teledeclarant number shown on your previous tax avis) set up the required digital signature, then complete your 2042.  There's no supplementary 2047 to complete (it's basically just a working sheet which prepares the totals for transfer to the 2042).  No need to supply any supporting documentation.

Enter the gross amount of your own pensions in box AS.  Enter your wife's gross pension in box BS.  Enter any UK saving interest (gross) in box TS.

Don't put anything in box TI because your pensions aren't subject to UK tax (you'll have completed a UK form FD5 for a refund).  Don't put anything in box TL because your E121 exempts you from CRDS on your pensions.

Click on submit (or whatever the button says) and the site will generate a receipt/certificate which you can print out.  You can also print out the return for your records.

Then go and open a nice bottle of wine.....

   

[BluegrassFreak]

Many thanks for your reply Sunday Driver.

I will indeed submit my next Tax return on line as it seems so much simpler

However  the reality of this situation is that my local Tax office have advised me to resubmit a 2047 and a 2042.

They also advised me to put our State pensions (in 2047) in Part VII. and there it directs us to transfer the Total to box TI on the 2042 !

I understand that our UK pensions are not taxed in UK (and yes I did submit an FD5 with my French Tax Return, although it seems that Paris have still not forwarded it on to the UK some 7 months later!).

I don't understand the significance of  our State Pensions not being taxed in the UK with regard to box TI?

 

Is it not the case that revenue entered in box TI is exonerated from French Tax ? ( I think that is what it says, but not sure).

Basically I'm trying to accumulate an argument with my local Tax office for not entering an amount in box TI as they have told me I must enter an amount in that box

Many thanks for your help

(I've already drunk the wine !)

[cooperlola]

I had a huge problem with my local tax office, as they insisted on not taxing me last year, and only submitted to taking my money after 5 months' of arguing (and this after they had happily taken my money the year before!)  An accountant had done my tax return; they didn't asked me to re-do it and  move the amount myself - just did it off their own bats.  This time I did as S/D suggested and submitted it on line.  It worked.

On the FD5 note, are you certain it is Paris?  I got my rebate yesterday - it had been in the UK (I sent it myself, my local tax office - again! - wouldn't send it on and insisted I post it direct myself to the UK) since last May in a backlog.

[Ron Avery]

BGF

The confusion about box TI is because the French tax people classify state pensions as those paid by the state like those paid to teachers, the forces and local government staff, not the OAP which you are talking about and we think of as the state pension.  If you follow what SD has told you to do for an on line return on the paper forms and don't put anything in box TL you will not pay CRDS, but you do have to put any UK generated savings interest if you have any, in box TS and that will generate a social charges bill which is payable whether you have an E 121 or not.

[Sunday Driver]

Bluegrass

I suppose if your tax office want you to resubmit the papers so they can adjust your charges, then you'd better do it.

For the 2047:

I. TRAITEMENTS, SALAIRES, PENSIONS ET RENTES (earned income/pensions taxable in France)

• PENSIONS, RETRAITES, RENTES

This part of the form asks for the total of your pensions, so just enter the total amount of your two pensions under 'vous' and your wife's pension under 'conjoint'.  The big red arrow on the right tells you to transfer these figures to your tax declaration (ie, the 2042) under Pensions, retraites, rentes - that's box AS and box BS.

VII. REVENUS EXONÉRÉS PRIS EN COMPTE POUR LE CALCUL DU TAUX EFFECTIF (income taxable in the UK but used to fix your overall tax rate)

As you are declaring your pensions in Section I so they can be taxed, this section does not apply, so leave it blank.

VIII. REVENUS DE SOURCE ÉTRANGÈRE SOUMIS EN FRANCE À L’IMPÔT SUR LE REVENU ET IMPOSABLES À LA CONTRIBUTION POUR LE REMBOURSEMENT DE LA DETTE SOCIALE (C.R.D.S.)  (foreign income liable to the 0,5% CRDS charge)

As you have an E121, you are exempt from CRDS, so leave this blank and write across "Exoneréé - Titulaire d'une formulaire E121"

That's it.  Fill in the 2042 as previously described and sign them both.

As Ron says, they misunderstand the terminology 'state pension' and assume it's taxed in the UK - that's why they're asking you to fill in box TI.  Don't know why they're getting hung up on box TI because you're actually declaring the pensions though box AS - which fixes your overall tax rate as a matter of course.

Remember, it's your declaration and you sign for what you want to declare and how you want to declare it.

 

 

 

[BluegrassFreak]

Cooperlola/Ron Avery/Sunday Driver.

Many thanks for answering my queries, particularly the last post of S/D which has completely lifted the Fog from the Bog. I'm eternally grateful.

 I can now play my Bluegrass banjos with an easy mind (before the wine) !